hi people, thanks for all your helps about my 6 long questions last time (all about changing camshaft) (for people that want to see some answers about the 6 qs, just search for 95a90

anyway. today I got my car back from the mechanic, I waited 1hr for him to do test drive before I drove it home. man, I kept on thinking where is he and did the cam sprocket came off the new 272 cam on highway, and blew the engine. man , I was waiting in a very frightened way. But he came back fine. The mechanic has 18yr of exp on audi/vw, but I was still scared.

Anyhoo, I drove it home on highway, boy! was the car different, it's really until today do I know what difference a different cam can make. People claims engine may run rough, but the only difference I felt is the engine vibrate a little stronger during idle than before. And the pick up is different, during full throttle, oem cam 0-2500 rpm is weak, then pick up hard during 3000-3500 rpm then lose the power after 4000rpm.
the eurospec cam, 0-3500 you feel a steady climb (not too strong, but doesn't feel like the engine is struggling to suck air to breathe like with oem cam, it's a bit smoother than oem cam 0-2500 feeling) but once you hit 4000rpm, the car just climb hard, I mean harder than the feeling you have with oem cam from 3000-3500, and that feeling last till 6000 rpm, a much broader and stronger power band. and even when I am in 4th gear, the post 4000rpm climb can still be felt.

I like the new power curve of the car, I think what you gain from switching cam is a rather diff. curve. the broader and stronger power band in the high rpm range make you feel good. and I also monitor the gas consumption during my return trip. Becoz the engine only run "HARD" in post 4000rpm region, that makes the under 3500 gas-burning brutal torqur a history, I live in new york, and normally a return trip in a stop and go traffic REALLY BURNINGS FUEL, NOW, I SEE BETTER GAS-MILAGE TOO. don't see much diff. in my gas gauge after I get home compare to the PAST.

anyway, this is my very honest review and I will post all the materials, parts and ways to get them in some pretty good price in my next post. (also all the answer to my original 6 questions)

I got the '93 90 cams (AAC motor) but maybe I should just do the 272 cams and be done with it? Ah... I've got a little time to decide. But I'm glad that you're happy with those cams! And I'm glad that the idle isn't too lopey either!

Bob

but it doesn't idle too bad at all eh? I've heard people compare it to the idle of a muscle car... kinda a low stumble... what do you think?

Good write up though! Can't wait for the next post with nitty gritty details.

some quick thoughts about Jretal's Q
1. I think the property of idle depends on who's doing the job and how careful the person did the job! I think most people had rough idle probably didn't align the sprocket to the new cam properly, and the no. of teeth of the timing belt is not exact as the original configuration, or maybe they didn't change into new hydraulic lifter, not sure, but to me, my idle is very acceptable (I was a bitch, telling the mech how to mark things, I will explain in part III)

2. Answer to cknyoc: I live in manhattan new york

where I ordered my parts

http://autox.biz/index.htm
for

hydraulic lifters x12
valve cover gaskets x2
t belt x1
t belt tensioner pulley x1
t belt idler pulley x1
water pump (gasket included) x1
serpent belt update kit (belt and new tensioner included) x1
camshaft holder x1
crankshaft holder x1

http://www.carpartstogo.com/
for
thermostat x1
cam seals x4
crank seal (front one) x1

AND MOST IMPORTANT THING
THE EUROSPEC 272 CAMSHAFTS X2
GO TO http://www.eurospecsport.com/eurocat.html
click on straight to the catalogue
search for v6 2v and you will end up with bunch of choice, there are 3 different sets of cams (262, 264, 272)for hydraulic lifter and 2 defferent sets for mechanical lifter(which can't be done until someone can find where to get mech lifter and tons of guts (haven't heard anyone did any mech lifter with crazy cam yet))

272 cam's part no is ECH 109 3423

then find the closet dealer to you here
http://www.eurospecsport.com/buyingguide.html

"DON'T CALL EUROSPEC HEADQUARTER" COZ THEY DON'T DO SALES TO INDIVIDUALS, BUY IT THRU THEIR DEALERS!

there will be part IV for more technical answer about what you should tell your mech!

<center><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/73859/1.jpg"></center><p>
check out the pics to get some idea, pic 1 is probably the most important piece, esp certain rotating stuff gets 2 color marking to prevent you mis-relate them when you are switching camshafts! when new cams in , sprockets back on and the butterfly thing is 180 degree wrong, you will be the sorry-est ass in the world, why? becoz if you are 180 degree wrong, when you turn cams to lock with cam-tool again, even if the teeth no of t-belt is right, the moment you start your engine, it's probably bye bye time!

then the pic 2 is serpent belt update
http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/73859/2.jpg

pic 3 is about refilling the coolant (bleed it right)
http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/73859/3.jpg

these 3 pic are originally from www.12v.org, but I put some vital info on them for guys want to attempt this mod

1. I spend around $ 666.96 (SH included) for the cam and $350 for the other parts + cam and crank tool

2. labor cost me $950(you know new york mech and 18 yr exp mech isn't cheap)

3. so the total is about $2000

Actually my car's idle at 800 rpm and like I said, the engine just vibrate a little stronger (when you lay your arm on the car's door armrest) but it's totally not as bad as some people claimed.( compare a fuji apple to a new zealand apple, you know there's a differnce but it's really very little)

1. I think the property of idle depends on who's doing the job and how careful the person did the job! I think most people had rough idle probably didn't align the sprocket to the new cam properly, and the no. of teeth of the timing belt is not exact as the original configuration, or maybe they didn't change into new hydraulic lifter, not sure, but to me, my idle is very acceptable (I was a bitch, telling the mech how to mark things, I will explain in part III)

I think my whole experience is almost 100% perfect, but I notice that 0.5% thing that kind of ruined the perfection. I think the thermostat I ordered from carpartstogo has a different set point, it's telling a higher temp right now (still in normal range, but past the midpoint, before this new thermostat, my temp gauge pointer's always in the lower 1/3) and that triggers the radiator fan almost constantly, hope someone can provide me with a solution(not changing the thermostat, but some other way to control my fan)

anyway

why did I do this mod, mmm, it's becoz I never like cars that torgue out in the low rpm and suck in the high rpm. why, the following is my ****-ass sad story

I used to have a Mitsu 3000 gt vr4 (sold it for college fund 5yrs ago!) that car is like a stronger version of audi quattro (4 wheel drive 320hp), torque out at 3000rpm and power drop at 4000rpm, yah, the pick up is great, kill the supra turbo in 1/4 mile, but once after the 1/4 miles, no power in hi rpm, supra chase right back and leave me in the dust. moral of the story is, you can't race a "torque in the lo rpm car" in situations besides "stop and go race", if I and the supra both start at 100 mile/h, man, I will just keep on seeing dust after dust(you can only enjoy that 13-15 sec of victory from a stop and go situation before your opponent leave you in the dust) You might say hey, why didn't I get a bigger turbo on my vr4 so I wouldn't get raped by the supra, becoz I already know it won't work, my friend had a 450hp (big turbo)vr4 and the same **** still happens, it's still with that same supra (stock), my friend only last 2 more sec than me, the supra still raped him soon after the 1/4.

the final moral of the story is "IF YOU HAVE NO POWER IN THE HIGH RPM AREA, THE RAPE IS INEVITABLE!, AND IF YOU ONLY THINK ABOUT RAISING THE PEAK HP AND DON'T CHANGE THE POWER BAND CHARACTERISTICS, THE RAPE IS STILL INEVITABLE"

I learned that lesson so hard!

beside, you don't need all your power at low rpm, it just spins tires! burning gas for power that you don't really need at lo speed.

and also 3000-3500 , this peak power range is so narrow, I am not michael. schuma whatever, I don't think people can really utilize that.

modding a car is never a straight forward thing, you have consider what will the product really do!
does it raise hp thru out the power curve (like air filters, pre-throttle intake area), or only in certain range (throttle body, post throttle intake area, headers,)

will it drop the torque and raise the hp or vice versa (different exhaust system)

when a performance product says it increase 8hp, it usual means it raise 8hp in a part of the power curve, and not necessarily at the peak hp area, (no after market manufacturer are that rich and nice to spend time to conduct enough research to add power at the peak precisely), most people after they installed the pdt and dyno and found the peak hp to be the same and feeling being cheated, DON'T feel that way.

true account of performance is the total area under the power curve, you have to think about what you really want, which part of the power curve area you want to increase, and find a product for that area (think carefully and research!)

that just doesn't seem worth it IMHO.

coming from and I guess it all depends on how you use your car. If you drive and live in the low range rpm, then this might not be the greatest idea... OR just live vin diesel style ("a quarter mile at a time"... cheesy F&amp;F quote had to be put here =P) it's not the MOST valuable... but if you track, autocross, always ride in the 4k+ range... this is really valuable!

I know what you mean about the torque curve business. My cousin kinda dragged my other cousin's bf (his sister's bf). My cousin was driving the new S40 T5 (236hp) and cousin's bf was driving a 330ci (225hp-230 hp?). Volvo beat the bimmer off the line no problem... but once the engines started to spool up... we (the volvo) were in the dust.

So ya know, mult pix are: img src="link" with the &lt;&gt; brackets on the beginning/end respectively

<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/73859/1.jpg">


check out the pics to get some idea, pic 1 is probably the most important piece, esp certain rotating stuff gets 2 color marking to prevent you mis-relate them when you are switching camshafts! when new cams in , sprockets back on and the butterfly thing is 180 degree wrong, you will be the sorry-est ass in the world, why? becoz if you are 180 degree wrong, when you turn cams to lock with cam-tool again, even if the teeth no of t-belt is right, the moment you start your engine, it's probably bye bye time!

then the pic 2 is serpent belt update
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/73859/2.jpg">

pic 3 is about refilling the coolant (bleed it right)
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/73859/3.jpg">

these 3 pic are originally from www.12v.org, but I put some vital info on them for guys want to attempt this mod

I may be doing mine this weekend.

am just worried about messing up the timing... I guess you could say I'm intimidated. One tooth off and your pistons are eating your valves... ya know?

But if it's pretty easy let me know ;) haha

not to spook you or anything. I'm sure I could do it as well... I'd ask my mechanic buddy to hover over my shoulder when I did it though =P

at the $80 an hour the dealer charges I'd for sure figure out a way to do it myself rather than pay them though... I promise you that

basically, I just went to pick up my car yesterday afternoon, the change thru out the rpm is noticable right the way when I handled the car(the mech testdrove for an hour and half before he hand it to me). and the reason I said the gas-milage did change too becoz on tuesday morning, when I gave my car to the garage, it has a full tank of gas, and after the 1.5 hr testdrive by the mech, I see the gas gauge reduced by somewhere from 1/16-1/8, we are talking about maybe 45min in stop and go traffic and 45min on the high way in new york, IF THE CAR HAD THE OLD CAM, 1/8 OF THE GAS GAUGE WILL DEFINITELY BE GONE( from my memory).

today I drove the car in the morning again, the feeling is still the same compare to yesterday, 0-4000 you have a rather smooth accel, and from 4000rpm-6000rpm it just "PULLS HARD".

I will keep on monitor (butt dyno) the "STRENGTH" of the car for a while and give updates regularly.

take it out on the highway, take it easy for.......one mile.......then blow it out!

I don't see the point of $2,000 on cams when you get similar results for $100. :)

I did blow it all out for a couple of time on my return trip yesterday.

I don't know your story (you didn't tell me how your car responded after you installed the cam, I am assuming that you use a 93 cam in your 96 2.8, I heard about that type of mod, but no one actually describe the difference in the feelings.)
SO PLEASE DO THE HONOR OF DESCRIBE A 93 CAM IN 96 2.8 FOR US. THIS IS A GREAT THREAD FOR DISCUSS CAMS!


I didn't spend $2000 just on the cam, the $2000 I spend include t-belt, new t-belly tensioner, idler pulleys, serpent belt update, new thermostate and water pump, new crank seal and 4 new camshaft seals, all new valve lifters along with the EURO CAM.

I could shave $500-600 off my job if I had found some place to re-grind cams, coz I know where to get used cam for the 12v REALLY CHEAP!

I heard about someone buying old cams and have they regrind to some racing spec, but I couldn't find a website or a phone no. for a place that know the specs to grind for our engine. You have to provide the old cams+ specs you want (unfortunately I am not at that level yet).
I AM SURE THAT THE CAM REGRIND SERVICE NEED MORE THAN JUST
Duration:272 - Lift:12- Lobe Center:112 - Valve Timing: 24-68/68-24

I have a couple of new findings that might be of interest to people that are considering this mod

1. yesterday, when the mech hand me the car, the car is all warmed up, which means I have not experience the idle when engine is cold.

the idle when the engine is cold is very different compare to the past!

in the oem cams days, the idle of the car feels pretty much just like when the car is warmed up, just like any typical sedan, quiet and calm,

but a cold v6 12v+ these cams=
1. muscle car type of low hum, growling sound! you know, the intermitten type of growling sound!
(it fades away when the engine warms up)

2. vibrate a little harder (if the vibration after warm up is 110% of the original, then during cold engine, the vibration is about 115%, and this you could feel, but it's at a very acceptable level. I know I did this mod, so I was focused to feel this change, but my GF on the other hand didn't know about this mod, and she didn't seemd to have notice this) WHICH MEANS THE COMFORT LEVEL OF THE MOD IS REALLY OK

AND LIKE I SAID BEFORE, THE IDLE OF THE AFTER WARMED UP (YOU COULD TELL THERE'S SOME CHANGE) BUT IT'S NOT TOO MUCH.

2. the engine temp seems to become very sensitive to the surrounding. I was driving thru the Lincoln tunnel this morning, WTF type of traffic jam in there, and the temp go up about 1/8 of the gauge than normal, but once I am in the open(outside the tunnel, but still in the jam) the temp drop down back to normal pretty soon.

just 2 new findings for the day

The new Volvo S40 T5 has 218 hp but a lot of torque starting down low and well up past 5,000 rpms. AMCI pointed out a couple of times during the S40 into that it out runs the 330. With equally competent drivers and a good long stretch I don't know that either car could consistently walk away from the other.

Those are the #s my cousin gave me (he sells 'em) not impossible I'm off there cuz I don't think he was too sure about it either.

In a longer stretch, once the turbo was wound up, etc... it's also possible that we woulda caught up too.. who knows. Wanted to keep it safe on the streets ;)

Not too surprising. The Volvo has to be mastered to get the juice out. Adaptive automatic trannies, DSTC settings, etc. can all conspire to rob off the line acceleration in turbo Volvos if you aren't familiar with optimal settings. With DSTC on and the tranny setup for economical shifts you can easily add the better part of 2 seconds to the 0-60 time for a turbo Volvo including the S40 T5.