View Full Version : Internal Velocity Stack Cone Filters
04-01-2003, 12:50 AM
<center><img src="http://www.intenseperformance.com/products/cone_filters/bmred.jpg"></center><p>Here's where I got mine.
Better filter than a K&N, and costs less! ;O)
Not only would we have to see the flow rates but as it is a filter one would need to know how well it filters.As to it be better 'n a K&N.....elaborate if you don't mind,as there is not one type of K&N but many. There has been some talk that inverted cone top filters actually cause some disturbance in air flow.I guess K&N might feel that as well as their top of the line performance filters(X-Stream) are not inverted cone top filters. I know when Gjaime switched to a cone filter with inverted cone top ,on his SIII 1.8,we logged some numbers that showed a significant increase in air flow vs the stock airbox.Some people pointed out that the 180 degree U bend in the intake kit could cause enough air flow turbulance to give the MAF and incorrect reading and thus making it SEEM like it was flowing more air when in fact is was not due to the air being turbulant as it crossed the MAF sensor.We altered the kit and did away with the kits U bend. Installed the filter directly on the MAF and ran the logs again. A increase of flow was shown with this set-up vs the previous.It was pointed out to us that inverted cone top filters caused a turbulant flow condition SO at a later date we replaced it with a X-Stream filter of similar size and logged again. A significant increase vs the previous set-ups was once again recorded.And it was pointed out that a filter of this type without a internal velocity stack mounted to the MAF would cause turbulant conditions so we found one of the X-Stream filters that would met our needs that had a internal velocity stack. This last filter was a bit smaller in size vs the previous one as not all of the X-Streams have the VS molded inside and we had to get as close as we could.This last set-up showed the best gains.What does it all mean? I'll let y'all decide but I have a number of hardly used cone filters for sale cheap. ;-)
but I'm always a bit leery of vendors who intentionally preclude any method of contact. They have no provision or method for asking questions or email or phone. Just a secure server for taking credit card/paypal payments. While I'm sure their products are ok I just personally don't want to deal with them. I can't understand why anyone would choose to be so secretive and hide from prospective customers or their questions. Pays your money and takes your chances I guess without benefit of pre-purchase inquiries.
<<Edited correction>> I did just find an email address for them and shot them off an email. Sorry for jumping the gun before investigating fully. I wanted to know the specs for their 3" inlet horn which is available separately to see if it can be adapted to a stock airbox as the inlet horn.
The best flowing filters I have EVER seen came from a U.S. company called Akimoto. They sell a filter called a "Funnel Ram IV" that I saw at the SEMA show. They had a Flow Master 1200 set up there. Probably THE number one flowbench in the world. The standard by which all others are compared. I know this cuz they're 58 miles down the highway from me. I COVET their machines but can't afford the $25k+ buy-in and 15 year old used ones go for $18k-$20k. Sorry for the digression but they are nice... simply the best in the world!
Anyway, Akimoto had one there and were conducting flow comparisons between their Funnel Ram IV series and any/all other challengers. They had K&N regular, VS and X-treme series filters. The had green filters, foam filters and some straight velocity stacks with no filtering element at all. Literally hundreds of competitors filters and anyone was welcome to bring their own for testing. Everyone around their display was a skeptic. No one wanted to believe their small-ish filter was outflowing ALL comers. They even allowed observers to conduct the filter swaps and operate and/or inspect the machine for bias tampering. Botton line: They completely blew away the competition! They beat filters that were five times the size of theirs with double the outlet area. They beat ALL that were tested and by at least 30+%. And unlike K&N and other similar appearing gauze filters theirs didn't appear to have any filter media holes you could look thru and make out objects across the room like the other gauze elements. They beat regular gauze filters, open top cone filters in both flat and v-inlet pleated filters and even 14" diameter filters with huge matching diameter base plates with integral velocity stack. It was an impressive demonstration!
Additionally their filters use no rubberized material whatsoever. Their wire mesh is stainless as opposed to the black "screen door" stuff K&N uses and their tops and bases were aluminum. All in all the best quality and efficiency I have EVER personally witnessed in an air filter demonstration.
I have no affiliation with them. Don't use any of their products but if I was looking for a cone filter there's only one I would consider. I didn't even take any printed material from their booth but I'm sure anyone could do a search on their name and get additional info.
04-01-2003, 09:00 AM
that I can effectively shield it from the ambient temperature in the engine bay.
Does anyone feel they have succesfully accomplished this, the TDL set up nonwithstanding.
and use a K&N or similar cone filter with an internal velocity stack and an angled offset flange base. Clamp the filter to the piece of exhaust tubing and insert it into the airbox lid outlet (it's a perfect friction fit without adhesive) just at the MAF inlet. Turn/twist the cone filter at an angle so that when the airbox lid is replaced the filter sits completely enclosed within the airbox below. I've checked feasibility of this and it's a very doable method of installing a cone filter while retaining all the benefit of the stock cold-air intake. And when viwed from the engine bay there would be no indication whatever of a cone system. Visually it would retain complete 'stock' appearances for all intents and purposes. And it would add minimal cost/labor to a cone conversion. Most muffler shaps have cut-off lengths of 3" tubing sitting in their metal trash container barrels or in their dunpster or would probably cut you a piece off to your spec for a $5/six pack gratuity.
Just de-burr the inside diameter at both ends of the exhaust tubing, clamp the air filter on it and push it into the airbox outlet at the MAF. Piece of cake!
I can't remember what the measurements are but this method allowed for most K&N filters between 5" & 9" if memory serves. Measure first to see what length would work for you.
04-01-2003, 12:21 PM
was a non-VS closed top unit. Plus something else to consider is that the more oil you put on a filter the less it flows and that is something that would be difficult to get exactly the same on each filter. I am going to order one for mine or Jaime's car and we will log MAF readings to see if it flows better 'n the X-Stream we are using now.
internal velocity stacks. I haven't even seen their site but they also tested non-filtered, open velocity stacks at SEMA, then slipped their filters over them and the VS then flowed more air with their filter on it than the open, unfiltered stack flowed immediately before. And if they were cheating, try as I might I can't figure out how they did it. And SEMA's not the place to try and pull the wool over anyone's eyes as there are one or two pretty sharp guys lurking about.
better,they would pick the competitions best to prove it against. Who's to say that another brand of filter wouldn't allow a VS to flow more as well?
Like I said,I'm going to get one and see.I wouldn't do that if I didn't think there was some validity to their claims.
I just found a site for em but can find any comparo. Got a link?
Compare your flowed and contoured 'x' widget against the worst possible 'y' widget for maximum benefit or gain. The VS/X series would obviously have less significant increase and therefore less marketing impact. The masses by and large are unaware of integrated VS filters, let alone X-series as we're seeing right here in spades.
One thing this company did at SEMA is to oil all their filters regularly then suck 1200+ CFM of air thru them to balance em out. That was brought up by someone in the audience that walked in mid-show that oil differences would affect flow rates. After repeated high CFM testing they suck these things dry almost as fast as they can keep them oiled. Oiling all the gauze filters then pulling air thru them at 1200+ CFM keeps em on an even keel and a very level playing field. Most of the testing was done at a more civil 800-850CFM. But at 1200CFM that bench could suck the icing off a birthday cake from across the room! Did I mention I LOVE that flowbench!?!
04-02-2003, 09:11 AM
04-02-2003, 01:02 PM
I have seen the same, independant tests conducted with Blitz cone filters compared to K&N, green etc and their filters do give extra flow I also saw how each filtered the incoming air of dirt particles, I have to say the stainless steel fine mesh Blitz filter was the worst filter of the lot but it gave extra airflow, no surprise really.
Dyno proven with all filters,in the same condition,under the same conditions?
04-02-2003, 04:52 PM
I showed Paul (Stasis) my funnel ram III over his green filter in his SpeedVision A4. We then tried it on his sponsored Miata (which of course still sucks a little over half the CFM's we do) which already had a huge K&N cone in it. Results from my 6" funnel ram - 3hp increase at the wheel. So, that's what they are using right now - my funnel ram III (donated) :)
I have seen the funnel ram IV as you folks are talking about and it looks even more promising.
I do remember sharing some data with you before. I believe it is this stuff. It was done by measuring my MAF being sucked by a ~350 CFM blower and comparing the MAF voltage of each. I have an old excel which I haven't verified in years but this is what it has.
......................... V ..... Improvement
RAMAIR PANEL ......... 3.83 ..... 94.57%
STOCK FILTER ......... 3.85 ..... 95.06%
K&N PANEL ............ 3.88 ..... 95.80%
K&N cone ............. 3.91 ..... 96.54%
OPEN ................. 4.05 ..... 100.00%
RS cone .............. 4.09 ..... 100.99%
OPEN + MAF MOD ....... 4.21 ..... 103.95%
RS cone + MAF MOD .... 4.23 ..... 104.44%
RS stack + MAF MOD ... 4.26 ..... 105.19%
Oh yeah, my MAF mod includes the missing screen mod and a few more goodies :) That MAP is fried by the turbo BTW.
Stay tune since I am in the process of adapting a 3.5" Mustang MAF on our cars - which of course will be modded too :) :)
Oh yeah, don't bother about the RS stack data. It's basically a huge stack (7") you see on drag racers who run turbos without the air filter. VC's are cool :) Next to have it are my secondary runners on the intake manifold - there's a reason e46 M3's make gobs of power :P