I have a "TDL RACING" style intake (relocated battery, etc) and I figured.. what the heck.. I'll try this screen remove thing.
My jaw dropped to the floor, MAN this thing is WAY WAY faster than before, and a bit TOO loud as well.. When the secondary opens up at about 4K, the thing just screams!
I would have NEVER thought of doing that without this forum.. Thanks guys!
03-31-2003, 03:55 PM
either as a stand-alone or in the base of a cone filter to smooth the inlet air it's not a matter of "if" you're gonna throw a CEL but simply when. Without a smooth, non-turbulent flow of air past the sensor wire in the MAF the car is on borrowed time til it idles rough, throws a CEL or goes into limp mode.
And your "secondary" is mechanical linkage and opens up anytime the accelerator is floored. What you're hearing is the RPM threshhold where the cams start to breathe and come alive. Transition into that sweet spot starts at a smidge over 3750 RPM's. Thats where you get that seriously good induction sound.
Mr.D-'97 A4q 12v
03-31-2003, 04:27 PM
the thread is locked. I thought of it a few minutes after I posted. I don't know why it says the thread is locked considering people have been replying to it. I couldn't edit another post either. Must be something with my account.
03-31-2003, 05:05 PM
I've had the MAF screen out now for over a few years!
03-31-2003, 05:11 PM
other things also. Must be something special.
And I don't have a MAF screen, but I have a special cone filter inside my air box (well, that was preturbo days)
03-31-2003, 05:12 PM
03-31-2003, 05:24 PM
it seems to bear out the just under 3800 RPM power curve all the way to 5600 RPM's where it falls off. This compares equally with the only other 2.8 dyno plot I've seen.
But we're pickin fly poop out of pepper here. Bottom line: It kicks in "just a little before" 4k.
03-31-2003, 05:26 PM
<center><img src="http://www.mn12performance.com/mn12how-to/maf/maf3.jpg"></center><p>It gets rotated with a regular K&N, when I clean the filter.
My MAF's been modified as well(simular to picture)! ;O)
Sample tube re-calibrated.
03-31-2003, 05:28 PM
03-31-2003, 05:39 PM
transmissions. All with stock air box housings, every single one threw a code, started to idle rough or went into limp mode within a week. Not 4 or 5 of em. Not 6 of em. All 7!
But I'll admit that a whole 'nother dynamic comes into play with a cone filter and I make no pretense about knowing why someone's cone system doesnt do what someones stock airbox system will do.
But everyone can do as they wish. CEL is a simple fix... no permanent harm. But When Mr D does the next dyno run with/without the air horn I'll bet dollars it adds HP! And it costs next to nothing so why the "mine ran fine without it" mentality? This isnt really about throwing codes. It's about making power. And this mod makes power. With "mine ran fine without it" attitude we'd still be driving Model A's.
03-31-2003, 06:07 PM
Here I read your posts, very informative, and you say the removal of the MAF screen "you're gonna throw a CEL".
I'm simply writing, my 1993 never has!
No mentality, no attitude, simply stating "fact"!
Why mine doesnt CEL, could be due to the mods?
Could be somethings FU?
But you take my post as an attack on your credability? Its not why I'm here, Its not what I'm about! How you people gather "attitude" from typed words, simply amazes me.......
03-31-2003, 07:01 PM
"mine never did that" comes from or the potential good that can come from it or even the appropriateness of such a statement considering the apples/oranges comparison between our cars upstream of the MAF.
If I over-reacted, I'm sorry but you're a difficult man to read sometimes. And you do come off occasionally as a little arrogant, condescending and pious. Please understand I'm not saying you ARE those things but some measure of those traits is high profile, chronic and recurring here. It's evidenced by several recent examples. Maybe it's a limit of the written word instead of personally conveyed. Without benefit of tone, inflection and body language people are hard to read correctly. And your people skills here are at-times short, curt and are perceived as insulting.
I like you, love many of the things you've done to your Audi and for the most part the way you help people. I've learned from you. And truth be told, under all the snipping and differences we're going thru now still feel we're probably a lot more alike than unalike. But GAWD you're hard to take sometimes!
Just like me!
03-31-2003, 07:35 PM
We'll see what happens.
03-31-2003, 07:42 PM
I'm only referring to the stock airbox without the MAF screen installed throwing codes. Yet put an airhorn/velocity stack inlet in top of the air box, immediately in front of the screen and the codes disappear.
03-31-2003, 07:48 PM
The thing runs like a crazed freak. I have had a lot of work done to the car, cams, blausprot TB, cowl induction, exhaust, etc. This make a HUGE difference.. No lies.. I only wish I had access to a dyno so I could post the results. But no BS here, it made a HUGE difference in my application. Even my freind riding shotgun used the oh sh!t handles. Smoked a 328, pretty proud about that.. pretty proud indeed. (and I am still runing the snows, WR's) Can't wait till Wednesday when my ES100's come in.. .
I'll keep everyone here up-to-date with any new findings or issues. I am sure the initial sensation will fade in the next.. SEVERAL WEEKS!! :)
03-31-2003, 07:53 PM
And if aftermarket/cone system is it a cone with integral velocity stack? And is the velocity stack located directly in fron of the MAF. Sorry for the barrage of questions but I'd like to keep a running inventory of code/no code situations and the sytems those are associated with.
03-31-2003, 08:01 PM
My intake is actually where the battery used to reside. I have made a custom setup very similiar to the TDL racing intake. I had a custom bracket machined and it connect to the MAF, anf then my K&N canister fits directly to that. (Not sure if that make sense). The intake require a 4" hole cut through the first firewall (or what ever taht is called)
03-31-2003, 08:09 PM
And if so does it include an integrated velocity stack within the filter? Or if you don't know do you have access to a K&N part number? And how far is the base of the K&N from the MAF inlet (where the screen was earlier today).
Glad you're having fun! Aint it great finding significant cheap ponies!?!
03-31-2003, 08:19 PM
I am not running a stack, a canster is very similar and it is part number RU-2820. Not sure if that help or not, but it is a HUGE filter. I had to do a lot of custom trimming of the drip trays (that the water off the windshield drains through) and the filter really sits on top of the AC lines that enter the cabin. If that makes sence.. I wish I had digital camera....
03-31-2003, 08:20 PM
03-31-2003, 08:23 PM
I believe what you are saying and understand why the air across the MAF sensor needs to be smooth and straight. I'll try it one day and see what happens with my set-up.I'd try it tomorrow but I just spent all day working on the 1.8 and we are taking it to the track tomorrow.Hope to put a 12 on that 1320. We are knocking on the door right now.I am and have always been interested in your projects. I wish I had the time and a all wheel drive dyno in town so I could help with your projects.
03-31-2003, 08:25 PM
03-31-2003, 08:33 PM
faster 1/4 mile times.He is close to getting into the 12s which would make his the first DBW 1.8 ,that we know about, to do so.He already has the best known ET of any DBW 1.8. All this keeps me from doing much of anything to mine and that's fine/ I enjoy the doing more and it doesn't matter if it's mine or not. In some ways this is better. I get to play on his dime.;-)
By the way,your K&N #RU-2820 does not have a molded in velocity stack.
03-31-2003, 08:40 PM
In your first post I responded to I presumed your intake to be stock and have found that without a MAF inlet horn the cars have a tendency to throw codes.
seen throw codes consistently. I don't know if it's an inherent airbox flaw or due to the TB mod I'm doing. I've never tried it on a car without my TB on it so it'd be nice to see someone step up on that experiment for a week. Seems the cone-equipped cars, if mounted at/very near the MAF inlet have much less, if any tendency to throw them. But then again they "might" when ingesting the kind of air volumes my TB is packing in comparatively speaking to the previous one-size-fits-all and knock-out bore/sleeve jobs.
03-31-2003, 08:52 PM
03-31-2003, 09:00 PM
He'd just have to take it off and feel inside.Mine does,I checked.;-)
03-31-2003, 09:03 PM
I'm sure they would know about flow as much as anyone out there since they sell so many flow-improved items. I can't imagine they wouldn't do a integral VS air filter with ANY induction mod they make. Strange this.
03-31-2003, 09:24 PM
03-31-2003, 09:32 PM
04-01-2003, 05:19 AM
In other words, how can I tell if my filter has an internal velocity stack (green filter)?
UrS4 - what type of codes would you expect me to throw if I didn't?<ul><li><a href="http://www.audi12v.com/mods/engine/intake.htm">Pictures of my cone setup.</a></li></ul>
04-01-2003, 05:54 AM
inside the filter housing from the flange end (flange is the protruding rubber tip that has the hose clamp). If internally at the filter end of that flange you can feel a sharp, flat 90* edge from the flange to inside the filter housing it's not a velocity stack. Conversely a velocity stack molded into the filter base will have a smooth, radiused countour without any sharp edge as you run your finger over it's surface from it's outlet flange up and into the filtered area.
For instance when you place your finger inside the flange as far as it will go then place it against the internal base of the K&N then slowly pull it out keeping it against the rubber base and into the outlet area if it's a VS type filter it will be a smooth, radiused and tapered transition. If its not it will have a distinct 90* sharp edge where it exits into the flange.
Mr.D-'97 A4q 12v
04-01-2003, 05:56 AM
Imagine the inlet horn in the picture as the base of the cone filter.
with MAF-related definitions. "Out of limits/parameters" kind of things. But the cars ran fine and I didn't even know the codes were in there. Two cars went into limp mode and that caused me start following this more closely and pulling codes summarily. There also seems to be some correlation associated with high ambient temps. None of the cars threw a CEL or went into limp mode once winter set in. But I was also by that time already doing MAF inlet horns so I don't know if it was causal/affectual in nature.
And hot air is widely known to be significantly more inherently turbulent than cool, dense air. Airplane take-offs/landings in cool vs hot temps are a perfect example.
04-01-2003, 06:23 AM
04-01-2003, 06:27 AM
04-01-2003, 06:28 AM
04-01-2003, 06:29 AM
I've had a pesky misfire code since the big valve heads were installed several years ago.
04-01-2003, 09:48 AM
I see no need for it since the wilter is doing all the blocking of particles into the engine.
04-01-2003, 09:58 AM
04-01-2003, 05:24 PM
I didn't notice that great of improvement, however the throttle feels much more responsive at low end...this is only after some 5-10 miles...we'll see later!