03-30-2003, 11:26 AM
03-30-2003, 11:26 AM
03-30-2003, 11:38 AM
<center><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/157/dscn0206.jpg"></center><p>Although currently only for the 30V. PES stated they could do one for the 12V, if enough folks fronted the $5000 entry fee! ;O)
03-30-2003, 11:39 AM
Refundable if no SC is ever made.
Only 7 were interested.
03-30-2003, 11:41 AM
03-30-2003, 12:09 PM
03-30-2003, 01:11 PM
No engine management available for it unless MoTec or similar is used with it's inherent buy-in costs plus it's tweaking/tuning and associated sensors, upgraded FPR, injectors. This could easily turn into a $10k+ pleasantry mounted on high mileage car? Or do you rebuild that too? There's another $3-$4k. More with Carillo or special rods. This get vulgarly absurd cost-wise quickly.
If no one can afford a $3500 MoTec outta the box for 15-25 HP how can they justify a $10-12 'large' for twice the ponies?
03-30-2003, 01:39 PM
03-30-2003, 04:54 PM
I was one of the 7 interested but I'm no longer interested in any type of FI without the ability to use a IC.
03-31-2003, 05:42 AM
towards making me feel all warm & runny inside. Especially when considering that all other tuners worldwide have been unable or unwilling to capitalize on making any sort of aftermarket engine management specifically for this particular ECU.
That's a lot of money to be out-of-pocket on the illusory promise of "some type" of engine management. Even if the SC/intake manifold kit for the 12V came to fruition we're still stuck with the vague and ambiguous "some type of engine management." Can they be any less specific!?! Can they be any more specific?
Hmmmm... wonder how much for 'just' the non-specific engine management? And how many would fork over "x" amount of cash for that little nugget up front!?! Depending on amount, I might!
03-31-2003, 06:31 AM
It was like pulling teeth to get this much out of them. Only 7 people were interested at the time, and several of them have since sold their cars.
PERFORMANCE ENGINEERED SYSTEMS
5 HUMPHREYS DRIVE
IVYLAND PA 18974
267-288-0161 FAX: 267-288-0165
Dear 12v Development Members,
Re: 12v Supercharger
Based on the request of 12v owners, PES will develop a 12v Supercharger kit. The development of this supercharger kit will be based on the minimum sign up of 20 individuals per contract and a deposit of $1000.00 as a development deposit.
- Is this offer open only to A4s with the 12V engine, or all cars with the 12V engine? It would be much easier to get 20 people if it is open to all 12V owners. The engines are very similar, so I don't think the fitment and compatibility would be a problem, but engine management may be.
The possibility of compatibility between 12v engines are based on the fitment between model years. If the engine designs are not compatible it will be at PES' discrepancy to modify a kit for existing 12v engines.
- Once the deposits have been collected, how long before development of the kit would start?
Within 1 month of obtaining a test vehicle. The customer/supplier of the test vehicle will receive a special price of $2000.00 for the complete supercharger kit with no labor.
- What type of priority will you be giving this project if you get the required deposits? If any of us put down a deposit, we would expect that this project does not take a back seat to other development projects.
There will be priority for the development of the 12v supercharger when deposits are made. The 12v supercharger will incur no back seats to other development plans.
- Once development starts, how long do you anticipate it will take to develop the kit?
The development is expected to take an approximate 3 - 6 months to complete.
- What is the maximum amount of time that development could take? In other words, at what point could individuals ask for their deposits back if no delivery dates have been set.
If the development of the 12v supercharger extends beyond 6 months, individuals will be allowed to get a refund of their deposit.
- Why do you require a deposit? (I understand the need, but this was one of the most common questions when the offer was originally posted.)
A requirement of deposit is a way of guaranteeing that development of the supercharger will take place, and to insure that both PES and 12v owners will be able to take advantage of the development of this supercharger. PES will also need a guarantee that all parties involved are interested in the development.
- What happens to our deposits if the kit is never made?
If development does not start within the time allotted, all deposits made will be refunded to the appropriate persons.
- What happens if the kit is made, but falls short of expectations (clearly, a set of minimum expectations needs to be established to answer this question).
PES expects a minimum of 250hp from development of a 12v supercharger.
- What will the total cost of the kit be?
A total cost of the 12v SC kit will be estimated at $4000 - $5000.00
- What is the required deposit?
The required deposit for the 12v Supercharger development is $1000.00
- What are your actual performance expectations?
PES expectations for the supercharger kit are 260 - 270 hp. If the supercharger kit makes 250 hp you will be bound by contract to complete the transaction for the 12v supercharger.
- What are your minimum performance expectations (if actual performance is lower than these minimums, we would expect to have a choice to either buy the kit of get our deposits back)?
The minimum expectations for the kit will be 250hp. If PES falls short of the minimum HP expectation, you have the choice to continue and purchase the kit.
- Would the kit be similar in design to the Generation 2 kit for the 30V? If not, please provide detail as to the type of SC that will be used and to the design of the kit.
The SC kit will be similar to the G2 Supercharger kit that is currently available for the 30v 2.8 engine. We may use a screw type (Autorotor) which may be more efficient.
- What would be done to get around the Hitachi engine management issue?
A piggy-back device or combination fuel pressure regulator/fuel pump type steps may be used to bypass the Hitachi engine management.
- What type of boost will you be running with this kit?
PES will be using an estimated 7.5 psi for the supercharger kit.
03-31-2003, 06:54 AM
price or even a stand alone,depending on what they could aquire them for or if they were going to pass that part along at something close to cost and make the profits on the rest of the kit. The intake manifold is the other big issue. The 30v manifold will not bolt to our engines and while I don't see them casting a new unit ,I can see other less costly options. But like I said,at this point in time I'm no longer interested. A forced induction set up with a moderate amount of boost and our CR without intercooling does not make the best of bed fellows. My interests in my car have been sidetracked by my work on a 1.8T. Even if I wanted to do anything to mine,the 1.8 takes all of my time.We will be working on it again today in order to fulfill Jaime's desire to make it faster. My free days are spent working on it,some of my nights are spent at the track with it or on deserted roads making VAGCOM runs and what's left is for family and work .My car sits quietly by watching it all and given me the automotive version of the finger. ;-)
03-31-2003, 07:38 AM
I'm probably going to explore it as an option in the coming weeks. Another option I'm looking at is RC Engineering injectors to compliment the throttle body mods I'm doing. Not so much larger ones as "better" ones. And blueprinted and flowed injectors will go a long way towards better, smoother running and torqueier engines. I have these on both my other cars and it may well be the single best out-sourced improvement I've found on both turbo'd and NA cars. And while I'm no fan of Lucas electronics, there's no doubt in my mind that Lucas injectors KILL Bosch injectors of the same size seven ways to Sunday... esp after RCE has done their magic on them.
I may even experiment with several sets of injectors. One set with a slightly lower flow rate but with a higher PSI FPR and one set with about the same (270 is it?) flow rate and an adjustable FPR. I can build my own adjustable FPR's in-house like everyone else has so thats an easy research task and I have plenty spares around to play with.
RC Engineering can always decrease the flow of their injectors slightly but can't increase the flow so I may try a dozen 270cc/min with half of them de-tuned to 255-260cc/min with higher fuel psi. I'll know more after I run some VE tables and do the math.
I still think there's 40-50+ HP available with a TB, injectors, fuel pressure tweaks and exhaust mods without going internal on the engine and for right at/just under $2k all-inclusive. That's no different than a chip/exhaust/fuel system upgrade on a turbo car for about the same HP increase and price point. I may be dreaming but if so, don't wake me least for now. It's a noble dream.
And I still have a fair amount of aces (secrets) up my sleeve at this point.
03-31-2003, 08:03 AM
with the OEM ECM.Stand alones take over ALL engine management functions.
03-31-2003, 08:12 AM
Then after testing, finding the best/safest programming for "X" modification(s) try to find a way to download into a much smaller, cheaper stand-alone box without all the adjustability features and other less-desirable or non-useable enhancements that can then be "piggy-backed" directly on/near the ECU itself. Basically a stand-alone piggy back unit with fuel/air/timing enhancements for the 2.8 12v without all the LED's, adjustability, non-applicable and programming features of a $400-$450 stand-alone unit.
Sorry for the misunderstanding...
Mr.D-'97 A4q 12v
03-31-2003, 08:14 AM
03-31-2003, 08:15 AM
HP. Combine that with well thought out/designed bolt ons and the improvements can be impressive.
You know what I really would like?
A nice stroker kit with lots of low end torque.
I'd rather have a well thought out NA engine with lots of torque in the low and mid ranges vs a FI engine . Maybe I should get a big diesel. ;-)
03-31-2003, 08:18 AM
03-31-2003, 08:20 AM
03-31-2003, 08:31 AM
03-31-2003, 08:33 AM
Count on it!
Mr.D-'97 A4q 12v
03-31-2003, 08:36 AM
03-31-2003, 10:30 AM
04-01-2003, 06:57 PM