<center><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/59644/110_1090.jpg"></center><p>$500,000.00 car, 5 days old, trailered from Florida, 2hrs on track and $50,000.00 damage.

Running in Red group (instructor), previous car 911TT as trailer was painted with it. The Carrera obviously doesn't handle like his 911TT? In the beginning of the session he was a hinderance to other drivers, then picked up the pace and whoops! 180 into a tire barrier. Why not feel the car out in a lower class first at slower speeds?

Not more than 15 min later a Mustang Cobra lost it rolled twice and held up the meet for about an hour, driver walked away thanks to a rollcage, but every panel was smashed in. Also in Red group.

Yesterday the same GT3 that crashed in the 4th turn of the very first lap of Dec ACNA event crashed again also Red group. Had a drivers meeting of all participants and chewed out the Instructors.

Such a shame that it had to end this way...

first track session on the first day, cold tires, with slicks, and right into the wall at turn 4. Ouchee.

the vent behind the front wheel was smashed in, wheels were both scatched as well as the paint.

or just sell it and buy a new one.

Regardless, that's the end of that GT for that owner me thinks.

mang, these guys suck!

ovey!

p.s. I'm working on the europe trip info email tomorrow ;)

d<ul><li><a href="http://my350z.com/forum/showthread.php?t=118220">http://my350z.com/forum/showthread.php?t=118220</a</li></ul>

he shouldn't be allowed to have such a unbelievable car. That would be my ruling anyway.

"hoooly cccrrrrrraaaaaaapppppppp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

or can't drive it back to Florida.

It's amazing. The GT3RS that backed itself into a wall near oak tree yesterday was the same car that ran into the wall at turn 4 in December. At least he got through half the day yesterday... ;-)

Some people have a lot of money and a lot of balls...

It could have happened to anybody, just happened with the wrong car. hehehe.

He pushed it too hard, felt it step out in turn 10 at VIR and instead of giving gas, he lifted and around he went for the ride. He was visibly shaken even an hour after it happened and I'm sure standing infront of all explaining his F%^k up didn't help. Embarrasment was also visible.

good I have dates and tickets on the way.

like get some diapers b/c that's going to suck!

for airfare, but might go a different route b/c I want specific dates etc... to meet up with you and the "other" guess ;)

d

<center><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/59644/110_1091.jpg"></center><p>

sorry i couldn't resist.

What are you doing at VIR without a car?

There was a 16yr old girl learning to drive her Fathers GT2/3? race prepped car on the skid pad. The kicker was for at least 10min she had a dog in the car with her. She stopped let the dog out and continued to trash the Porsche, clutch, and tires. Sounded wicked though, could be heard over the racing and all other noise.

J/K.

I think I'd choose having the dog ride with me, getting hair everywhere, scracthing up the seats, etc...than the 16 year old driving my car.

Mine happened immediately after my Randy run. Randy was taking 10 flat out with no brake and a slight lift to bring the ass around. I thought I'd try that technique and ended up in the weeds. Thankfully, no damage, but it taught me a valuable lesson: I'm not Randy. :)

I'm sure that this will end up as an insurance claim, and there's no need to further penalize the owner by helping the insurance company deny the claim (if they try to do so).

Heard about that earlier...sounded ugly. What turn and how did it happen?

Soooo pissed that I had to cancel....

I saw the car but sorry no pics, Turn 10, driver thought there might have been some fluid on track? Drove the line had traction and then the car went around off the track, grabbed and rolled twice ending up on its roof, rollcage saved him! Running slicks, no moisture and all four tires had air in them upon return to the paddock.

If he files a claim, he will have to tell them what happened, how it happened, where it happened, etc. What difference does it make whether they find a random pic on AudiWorld to corroborate his account?

It would be a criminal act for him to give the insurance company a cock-and-bull story. As far as I can tell, posting his temporary license number here doesn't make any difference whatsoever...

-JPC

your subject line is a little harsh...he obviously has money (can't fault him for that)...no brains? come on, do you even know the owner?...thinks all cars are equal?, i seriously doubt it, the owner is a respected driver/instructor and i'm sure he is well aware that all cars arent equal...

"Running in Red group (instructor),"
-the owner is an instructor and is a VERY capable driver

"previous car 911TT as trailer was painted with it."
-the 996TT is still a current car for him, it was at the track also...

"The Carrera obviously doesn't handle like his 911TT? In the beginning of the session he was a hinderance to other drivers, then picked up the pace and whoops! 180 into a tire barrier. Why not feel the car out in a lower class first at slower speeds?"
-a few different people were driving the car in different groups (a very common thing) and some of the drivers were taking it easy (for obvious reasons)....i wouldnt really call it a hinderance, i didnt have any problems getting around it,did you?...the car hit the tire wall on the outside of the track after south bend, this it the most common place that people do damage to their cars (they start to go off, try to steer it back on, car hooks up and shoots across the track into the tire wall...another way to do is to lift in mid-corner, pretty much same result), all three of the incidents resulting in damage at this event happened in the same place...
-the car was being driven in a "lower group" at "slower speeds", the accident happened in blue group...honestly, bad things happen can happen to everyone, even the best drivers can make small mistakes that can lead to serious damage...the other two accidents happened in the instructor groups...

...instead of driving straight off...

i never put it together until now...why didnt you come over and say hello ? you terrorized the blue group huh ?

i was in the blue group monday and went to red today....red was a much nicer pace...

sorry i didnt come by :-(

Believe it or not, some insurers don't ask many questions up front. However, for a claim that's going to be huge (like this one), it's not unreasonable to think that some enthusiastic claims agent will scour the web for a writeup or pics somewhere. A writeup can be denied, but pics of the plate? Are you in support of insurers denying track-related claims? If not, then why make their job easier? It's the guy's own business what he tells his insurer, but it's certainly not cool to post identifying pics on the web with an explanation of where and when the damage occured. Cut the guy some slack. He just broke a half million dollar work of art...

:-P

You ever insure a race car? It is very expensive for a reason--the odds are higher that the vehicle will crash. If this guy wanted racing insurance he should have bought it (and maybe he did), but it would be irresponsible and dishonest to deceive a conventional insurance carrier into covering this claim.

If he is asked how this happened, how should he respond? It seems to me that you advocate that he should lie about it, and that the pictures will expose the lie. There is nothing wrong with these pictures UNLESS he decides to lie about it. If the insurance company doesn't care, then fine. But if they do?

"A writeup can be denied?" Only if he wants to lie about the incident, which is illegal.

"Make their job easier?" Not sure what that means... their job is to ascertain the truth. They will find out, one way or another.

"Am I in favor of insurance companies denying track claims?" That depends. If the policy states that it is covered, then he has nothing to hide, and it shouldn't be denied. If his policy doesn't cover it, then I fully understand and support the insurance company if they want to deny the claim. The bottom line is that he has a policy that contains certain coverages, but not others.

Believe me, I hate insurance companies. They are a bunch of bottom-feeders (cf., the speed limit issue, their support of lower limits to increase surcharges, etc.). But I cannot defend someone who would falsify such a claim, nor do anything that would make it easier for him to do so. Yes, that's his own business... let him deal with it. Posting a pic of his wreck isn't depriving him of any legally protected right.

-JPC

...big difference...

and DE insurance is pretty cheap...

Some of us choose more challenging vehicles to drive, and ALL of us make mistakes at one time or another. Do you really want somebody taking pictures of your car after you make a mistake and then posting about what an idiot you are on a public forum? I at least hope you got his permission before posting the pics...

Andrew

I think he has two other cobra's to run, including that R.

I was afraid it was Wade (or Wayne?) driving the older Mustang. Really nice guy...but always sorry to hear about people rolling and banging up nice cars.

Glad he walked away safe though.

The people of that era were what helped convince me that the S4 was the right vehicle for me. I liked the old B5 S4 forum almost as much as my S4 itself!

However, as soon as some claims reps hear "track" they freak out and assume that it was a race. It can be a PITA to explain the whole DE concept (not competitive, not timed, etc.). Why make it harder on the owner to pursue his claim (which is likely legitimate) by posting his plate online? That just seems like such a dick thing to do to someone who is undoubtedly already upset about wrecking in the first place.

I usually have to consciously tell myself NOT to lift if I anticipate a problem with a particular corner. I've caught myself doing it on the street far too often, but I'm usually traveling at a much more sane speed then, so it just understeers rather than stepping out on me.

...it honestly bugs me when people go over and start snapping pics of a wrecked car at a DE then post them up on the web...as soon as i saw the wrecked CGT i knew it would be posted all over the web before i even made it home from the track...it bugs me even more when people start slamming the driver/owner of the car without really even knowing the details...

<center><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/665/e30after01.jpg"></center><p>I am in the pic..so obviously I didn't take the pic of my DE altercation. Yes, this is my one and only accident since starting to drive in 1903 (I mean 1972).

:-)

...exactly, i hate that sh!t...

luckily the damage to my car (that is still there) isnt enough for people to want to snap pics and post them...i just have a banged up rear bumper (with lots of tape on it now) after letting a good friend drive it...he made a mistake, it happens, i still trust him and let him drive the car on track when he wants...

It's too easy to make up speed in the straights with a chip. If I can catch and pass faster cars, I know I'm doing something right. ;)

I'm sure that concept is magnified in a Miata, though.

The odds of flying off of a racetrack, even if not racing, are much higher than the odds of getting into an accident on the freeway. As such, the driver should expect to pay a much higher premium for his affinity for track events or not be covered.

If track events were built into all of our insurance plans, then our rates would be much higher. How else could the insurance companies offset the losses sustained on racetracks?

That's what's kind of funny actually--this guy <i>may very well be</i> covered for this type of incident. But guys--if he were terribly worried about it all, do you think he would have left is temporary plates on the car?

but I don't pull the plates when I get into the paddock. Why is it so hard to understand that it does no harm to crop the plate, but it potentially screws the owner by posting them? Why do that to a fellow enthusiast?

...he deserves not only to be discovered, but prosecuted. I don't care if he is a fellow enthusiast; stealing from an insurance company is still stealing and besides being flat-out morally wrong, it affects my rates.

I would say the same thing to somebody I knew personally. Case in point: my girlfriend was <i>minorly</i> rear-ended a few months ago and contemplated filing a neck injury claim so she could see a chiropractor. I ripped into her like I never have before and absolutely forbid her from doing so, since she was not actually injured. I am not a dominating type, but I felt very strongly about my position and let her know.

Whatever the conditions, fraud is fraud and I will NEVER support it or anyone who tires to get away with it.

The insurance company may hear "track" and think that it was a race, making him jump through all sorts of hoops to get the claim through. Cut the guy some slack, will you? I don't understand why you advocate posting the plate. Does it somehow enhance the picture?

Bravo - pat yourself on the back.

A problem would arise only if Mr. Carrera GT decides to tell his insurance company that he backed into his mailbox.

And if I made his life more difficult (which is highly unlikely) by voicing my opposition to fraudulent insurance claims, then I guess I am guilty as charged.

If a picture of his license plate denies him his claim, then he wasn't covered for track days. It's that simple.

<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/28004/dsc_0019.jpg">

All the rant on the mid-atlantic board.

There's a lot that goes on in between, and you're just making it that much more painful.

Either way, hope that I'm never around if you wreck. I'll be sure to post all sorts of threads with pictures talking about how reckless you were driving, etc. See if it doesn't hinder your claims process.

See above - pray that I'm not around if you wreck.

Point out to me where I advocated insulting the guy's driving style. Please? Those were your words, not mine.

My <b>only</b> point of contention was the license plate, or lack thereof. If he PAID for track day coverage, he should be reimbursed. A photo of his license plate does in no way suggest that he was racing. Are racers the only ones who use license plates? Is it not conceivable that he was <i>not</i> racing but &lt;gasp&gt; still had a license plate? Is the claims adjuster really going to say, "Oh my God I saw a pic of your license plate on Audiworld so you must have been racing--sorry, gotta deny your claim bud"? Where's the correlation?

And by telling me to hope/pray that you are not around if I am at fault during a road accident, you insinuate that either a) I would lie to my insurance company, making me a hypocrite, or b) <b><i>you would</i></b>. Your mother would be proud.

(3) The word "track" to some claims adjusters = race/competition. (4) Most policies exclude coverage for race/competition, but don't exclude coverage for DEs.

Posting the pic of the plate with the explanation of the incident at the track makes #3 more likely to occur. The owner would then be fighting an uphill battle to prove #4. Coverage justified, claims adjuster uneducated, headaches for the owner. Get it now?

Is it so against your belief system to just crop the plate and let the owner fight on a level playing field? Don't think that insurance people don't scour the intardnet looking for threads like these.

My comment about saying that you were driving recklessly is just my way of returning negative karma to you should you be in the same situation. I'd be doing my best to try and get your claim denied so you would know how it felt to have intardnet pictures and discussion used against you in the claims process. :)

From his perspective, he was reaching T10 faster than his usual pace and he wasn't prepared for it. He notice he wasn't going to hit his apex so he lifted trying to slow down to make the apex. That lifting is what caused the back end to step out. The back end didn't step out on it's own. The car does't do things on it's own, it's does things based on driver imput.

contributions to the forum. Haven't seen a recent post by him in a long time. Don't know if he still has the Imola either.

...will tell adjuster anyway, unless he lies. This is where it ends, because we are just rehashing the same argument over and over again.

I feel that the insurance company will either a) be told about the incident accurately by the Carrera's owner in which case the pic corroborates said report, or b) the owner will lie, in which case I have no sympathy.

You feel otherwise. Neither one of us is going to change our minds.

<center><img src="http://www.hpjvids.com/crazycurves/VIR042505/sm_DSC07741.jpg"></center><p>and yes, i'm passing it ;-)

"And how is that, Lieutenant?"
"Well I happened to..."
"We..."
"Sorry, Goose, we happened to see a Carrera GT get passed at VIR"
"And just where were you when this happened?"
"That's classified."
"That's what?"
"Classified. I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you."
"Lieutenant, the Pentagon sees to it that I know more than you do."
"Well ma'am, it doesn't seem so in this case, now does it?"
"So you're the one?"
"Yes, ma'am."

*some lines I forget*

"And what were you doing there?"
"Communicating."
"Communicating?"
"You know, giving him the bird."
"You know, the finger!"
"Yes, I know the finger, Goose."
"Sorry, I hate it when it does that."

I think it's funny that the two passengers are looking over at each other. Reminds me of Top Gun. :)

...is that the instructor/passenger was looking to see what the hell was making all that noise ;-)

my car is "kinda loud"

someone posted it on bimmerforums...

...and i was lucky enough to get it caught on film ;-)

the first time i passed it (which i think was in that pic) i didnt have my camcorder on (doh)...but i got it on video the second time i passed it ;-)

If he can afford a $500k car, then a $50k crash is only 10% of the price. Proportional to a $5k crash in an S4. So not the end of the world financially.

Good point. I agree with you.

It got to a point where I was just looking for your car to show up in my mirror. What kind of exhaust is that?

thanks for the kind words! but its all car ;-)

my exhaust is a kromerkraft race exhaust...6-2-1 long tube (equal length) headers into an oval section, then into a 3.5" magnaflow race muffler...

You are all missing one major point. ALL policies have vague wording which CAN be intrepreted in favor of the carrier. And yes, this is purposefully done.

While his plate information may be public information, out of curtosey you should not post it. Afterall, would you want recent escapedes of you drunk in bar posted on the internet?\

It's a sweet car and I'm only bitter I may never get to drive one.

'tis true?

Fast car (loud too) and driven well. I was in the black 996 in the red group.

I understand what you are saying, but that has nothing to do with it.

The bottom line is that it will come down to one thing-- the owner will file a claim with the insurance company, and he will be asked various questions as part of the process. They will want to know where it happened, how it happened, weather conditions, any witnesses, etc. This has happened in every single claim I've been party to. This is where the owner will tell the truth, or lie. A picture of the car isn't going to help him, but it won't hurt him either. Unless he lies.

-JPC

or reading posts like this.

Congrats on a well thought out post. Perhaps you can file this one where it belongs.