I am shopping for tires and I have heard good things about the Blizzak's and the Michelin Artic Alpins as well as the Pilot Alpins.
What are most of you running for weekend jaunts up to the local ski resort? I heard from one post in the archives that Blizzaks will start chunking out if you drive at any speed with them on dry roads. THat sounds lame.
I want to buy them right and not regret my decision. I will be useing the 225-45-17 size.
12-12-2002, 09:47 PM
or "T" speed-rating (Blizzak WS-50, Artic Alpins, etc) are designed/constructed to be the most aggressive snow/ice tire at the expense of dry/wet road ride/handling/braking. Those with a "H" or "V" speed-rating give up a bit (but not much) on snow/ice in favor of much better dry/wet behavior. The Blizzak LM-22 and the Pilot Alpin are examples.
If you expect to do some snow/ice driving but mostly dry/wet roads with free-ways then the "H" tires are better for you. If you want the best for snow/ice and are willing to drive like a grandma the rest of the time then go for the "Q".
I've had Yokohama "Q" tires, Pilot Alpins ("H"), and now have LM-22s ("V"). The Pilot Alpins performed (in the dry) better than the so-called "performance" tires that came on my car! On snow/ice they were a bit behind the WS-50 at our last winter driving school at Stevens Pass last year. The Yokos were so poor off the snow that I had them on only when I went skiing...but they were the best I've driven on snow/ice. The LM-22s have yet to go on the car.
12-12-2002, 10:36 PM
I can't comment on how they drive cause I just got them this year for my '02 A4 1.8TQMS. Went with the Blizzaks for many of the reasons Pete RD has stated. 95% of the time they will only see wet or dry conditions. The 'H' rating will (hopefully) give me better tread ware and performance then say WS-50. At the same they should sill allow me to go up to the mountains for skiing once or twice a week without the need to chain up.
I figure with Quattro, ABS and these tires I should be good in the mountains 98% of the time - if not it probably means the snow is too deep for my car, or its so damn icy I wouldn't want risk my car in it anyway.
12-13-2002, 08:52 AM
I've driven the original Blizzak (BMW 535i), had Blizzak WS-50s, MZ-01, and just put another set of WS-50s on our Avant.
I've never had Blizzaks "chunk" or otherwise deteriorate...no matter the type.
Now...the tires aren't meant for 100+ speeds...keep that in mind. We keep it under 85 while the Blizzaks are on. Not a hard number, just a general thing. Keep in mind that they are soft and squishy so you should drive accordingly. Meaning, don't go flying into a turn at 1G.
But, in the snow, you'll know nothing better (except the Nokians..they are as good or slightly better I've heard) and they really aren't bad in the rain. Not as good as a Pole Position S-03, but then again, what is?
I considered the new LM-22 V rated tire, but Q rating is fine for snow tires in my humble opinion, and WS-50 is much better in snow than the LM-22, and the LM-22 is about $25-30 more than the WS-50.
12-13-2002, 08:58 AM
I miss the days of Audi placing an ABS turn off switch on the dash. In the snow, you DO NOT want ABS to kick in. It will usually be so slippery that the sensors think there is virtually no traction and will kick in so hard that you'll barely have any brake pressure on the rotors.
The 2 surfaces you do not want ABS is very loose gravel and snow. You stop in shorter distances in both by locking up the wheels which build up material ahead of the treadblock decreasing the stopping distance.
Don't rely on ABS in the snow.
12-13-2002, 09:58 AM
12-13-2002, 10:03 AM
If we do PLEASE make the effort to attend...there you will experience first-hand the pro's (and con's) of quattro and ABS, as well as learning the importance of "the right tire for the conditions".
I'll try to keep this board informed of this event.
12-13-2002, 10:43 AM
12-13-2002, 11:02 AM
12-13-2002, 11:46 AM
Driving School for 2 days so that one cost about $100 for one day or about $175 for both days. Day 1 was all introductory skills for snow/ice (read VERY slick) driving. Day 2 was "advanced" stuff with deliberate understeer/oversteer turns, slalom, traction circle, and the "figure 8" course where the car would be completely side-ways!
We usually hold this event mid-week at Stevens Pass (with Ma Nature's co-operation).
The stuff you have learned at q-club driver safety-training events on the wet skid-pad will seem like a dry road compared to this school. How slick you ask? Everyone slipped and fell trying to pick up the traffic cones at the end of the day!
12-13-2002, 11:52 AM
12-13-2002, 07:11 PM
And you are well aware of the fact that I always drive like a religious granny on my way to church :)
12-13-2002, 11:06 PM
I hope you weren't implicating me as one of those idiots who thinks that because they have AWD and ABS that they can drive the same in the winter as they do in the summer.
My previous car was a '87 5000S and I would say I did as good, if not better then most in the snow with it. It was only FWD with cheap all seasons.
12-14-2002, 12:19 AM
I was wondering if it was going to happen this year; would it be a winter tire only event or could I get away with all-seasons?
12-14-2002, 06:24 AM
There is no pavement whatever in the parking lot area that the winter clinic is held on and by the end of the day, it will be packed down to pure polished ice.
12-14-2002, 08:24 AM
one participant made it to Stevens Pass on his all-seasons. Other than tires his car was identical to mine with lowered sport (stiff) suspension. His A4 would BARELY move while mine (with Yoko 600s) absolutely showered those behind me with snow rooster-tails as I launched. I took him for a few rides thru the exercises and let him drive my car as he was not getting anything out of his car.
Lesson: quattro may help in 3 of the 6 things you ask a car to do, but the key to any driving is traction, and that means tires. His quattro with all-seasons would barely go up the slight inclines in the parking lot while mine quickly excellerated to the 35 mph we needed for the lane-toss event.
12-14-2002, 02:54 PM
When I go up to the mountains, I usually take my <whisper, don't tell anyone> SUV as it can carry snowshoes, skis, etc with people much easier; thought I might get away with no winter tires since it never snows in town. But maybe I just need a good swift kick; are winter tires worth getting in Seattle if I'm not going to the pass every weekend? I know they're more pliable in colder temps, but does it get cold enough here for that to be a factor? Do they compare with all seasons in the rain? Am I looking for an excuse?
12-14-2002, 03:47 PM
on my S4, so have no point of comparison. I do find that they have far more cold wet weather traction than my Potenza S03's. Those tires are great for the warmer weather, but turn into hockey pucks once the temps drop down into the 40's.
12-15-2002, 06:15 PM
saved my butt when I went up to Whistler last year and got caught in some big flurries.
Also, excellent wet/dry traction, and not that loud. Very happy with them- never had any qualms about running on the freeway with them on.
12-15-2002, 07:07 PM
12-20-2002, 05:07 PM
in front of your tires is a one way ticket to loss of control.
If you desire winter driving control the best solutions are driver education and suitable tires.
12-21-2002, 08:45 PM
Ran across the answer to this by accident, but on Quattro IV the front and rear diffs are EDL (Electronic Differential Lock) which uses ABS to selectively brake a slipping wheel - hence if the driver could override the ABS all benefits of quattro would be gone.
Quattro IV was out for model years '96 and on.
With quattro III (only on the '90-'94 V8) you had the following:
Open front differential
Planetary gear center with electronically-controlled multi-plate locking clutch
(Torsen center differential with manual-transmission)
Torsen rear differential
quattro II was found on the following:
1988-91 Audi Quattro turbo coupe
1989-95 Audi 80/90 quattro, Coupe quattro, S2, S2
1988-95 Audi 100/200 quattro, S4, S6
and had: Open front differential
Torsen center differential
Open rear differential, manually lockable (when manually engaged ABS turned off).
Follow the included link and go to the bottom of the page for more info.<ul><li><a href="http://www.ibiblio.org/tkan/audi/usmodels.html">http://www.ibiblio.org/tkan/audi/usmodels.html</a</li></ul>