just talking about coffee klatsches and social events. Where's the controversy? Missed me?
Man, this board can be a yawn a minute....

Let's discuss oil changes and tires, or perhaps the merits of 17 inch wheels versus 18 or even 19 inchers....

Smoked tail light lenses anyone? White bulb turn signals? Cop baiting?

allows. smoked lenses good on dark cars. white turn bulbs = rice. WTF is cop baiting?

8^)

Aman

FYYFF!

The current "in" tail light mod is LED. Just ask Tgr_Clw.

And we had LITERALLY a skitload of tire talk not too long ago. Just ask Bruno.

and as proof thereof, here I am responding to my own posts without letting any of you wits get there first.

I have returned...
to post to this forum in the hopes of stimulating interesting debate and exchange of useful (and correct)information about Audis and cars that Audi enthusiasts, of whom I am one, might be interested in.

And "loaded for bear" is a quaint saying, possibly Western in origin, meaning that I am prepared to take on all comers in any debate of interest relevant to Audi enthusiasts, fully expecting to easily dispose of any such opposition as I come to this forum fully equipped and heavily armed for any match of wits. Whether there are any bears out there worth shooting at remains to be seen.

I have not hunted for bear (I don't know much about firearms actually, except what hunting and shooting types tell me) but I know several people who have, some actually who were unexpectedly hunted by the bear but as they were loaded for bear, the bear lost.

You require significant armament to successfully hunt bear, particularly the Grizzly. Big ammunition and preferably high muzzle velocity. Longish range is also useful. If you carry any sort of hand gun to defend yourself from a grizzly, better make it a magnum. For long barrel firearms a deer rifle is possibly adequate if loaded for Elk or Moose.

All this by way of jocular response to the numerous attempts by many on this board in the past to ridicule me and my ideas, and so on.

"Turbonator", the guy who everyone wants to revile and prove to be a dimwit, so far without effect or success.

I did search "tires" for August posting and it popped up one possibly relevant post about Michelin PS 2 tires, and some threads about having three tires for sale, or winter tires, or used tires. That's it.

The LED thread might be interesting. So far, the LED's I've seen need big ballast resistors so that negatives a big plus for LED which is low power consumption, negatives the no heat benefit and puts the heat inside the wiring area which is not good, and the LED's don't seem as bright as incandescents which is another negative.

So, what are the benefits of retro fitting lED's to a car not originally designed to have them?

LED should last indefinitely, a big plus (though modern incandescent tail light bulbs seem to last a long time and don't cost much) but those ballast resistors develop a lot of heat, waste power, and are hard to integrate neatly into the wiring harness.

No question LED should prove superior eventually, but are there any current retrofits available that do not have these drawbacks?

the caliber of the bullet is what it is. its not a shotgun where you can range from birdshot to slugs.

You just get a bigger rifle

Audi content: I saw a cool audi today somewhere!

Aman

and like tinting your windows, stuff like this is cop baiting, even if unintentional cop baiting.

Unfortunately, I seem to attract enough attention from the authorities already without window tint or other items that might give a cop an extra reason to pull me over.

Contrary to popular opinion, cops don't tend to focus on car model types but they do react to visible signs of a tendency to possible illegally aggressive driving...such as speed and excessive lane changing, tinted windows (looks like a drug dealer's ride) lowered suspension, loud exhausts, and so on.

post by someone whose first language is obviously not english. Seriously......

Aman

<center><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/99432/ledsig.jpg"></center><p>

different ammunition is available for rifles of a given caliber. The caliber refers to the size of the bore not the size of the bullet or the cartridge, assuming of course that the cartridge and bullet are of correct caliber. Apologies if I am mistaken.

I do know for sure that a .22 caliber rifle will accept at least two different sizes of .22 caliber ammunition. I know that some larger caliber rifles do also. Whether a "deer rifle" will or not I couldn't say but I do know you need big, heavy, and fast travelling ammunition to kill a bear before he kills you. Even the biggest .22 cartridge won't do a thing.....

and I speak french &amp; have a muslim last name...

I'm a walking bullseye for gods sake!

Target for racism maybe... pretty much any racial slur you can think of relates to me and/or my family in some way shape or form.

Either way, turbonator's post really makes no sense to me... maybe its due to my lack of engRish comprehension, but I highly doubt that.

I would never make fun of someone who clearly doesn't know any better... that would just be wrong!

Regrettably, we are still not impressed.

So, why do you feel it necessary to try to insult someone with terms such a "Engrish"?

Especailly when that "WASP" turns out to be 1/2 Chinese + 1/2 Indian.

;-P

Are people in your "real" life getting tired of your pompous act?

Needed an ego-boost by acting superiour to some kids on the Internet?

Suffering from ED? Crippling insecurity?

All of the above?

We understand.

I admit, I had to re-read my original innocent looking post for secret meaning I was unaware of. Don't see it. One of us is hallucinating. Of course, it isn't me.

Interesting side thread bursting through, lively, though not Audi...

where LED lights may not be bright enough for safety, compared to stock incandescent on a B5 body.

and I'm not surprised you remain unimpressed.

You should be, but it's OK if you're not. I won't hold it against you.

Still waiting for an interesting Audi thread to develop. I did start with car oriented topics for discussion.

person you are.

You really like the sound of your own voice don't you. The fact that you can ramble on about firearms and LED's when nobody asked you to shows this. The fact that you searched the word "tires" and found one hit in the month of August reinforces it.

This entire discussion was unnecessary and irrelivant.

Most people that regularly post here are very happy with the discussions and although things sometimes are slow and not "Audi" relevant, in the end they are all discussions amongst friends and internet acquaintances.

If you want to stimulate discussion, then participate like everyone else.

Ask a question or give an opinion. Save the complaining for another forum because clearly you are not rubbing people the right way.

The end.

Sorry, it may seem this way, but I really am not dogging you here. Just goofing around.

&lt;rant&gt;"Political Correctness" has it's place in our society, but nowadays much of it is overkill. People are so afraid of offending other people that they read bad intents into innocent comments. Whatever happened to "sometimes a kiss is just a kiss"?&lt;/rant&gt;

very entertaining. thanks.

No need to try to start a lynch mob to ban a well-liked and active contributor to the forum.

I almost fell out of my chair I laughed so hard!!!

about the cars..... now that I have one

cop attention!

clever remark?

I won't make the mistake of assuming what T-dot B6 is thinking.

Now if T-dot B6 is 2nding my vote for just you, then...

by voting for both me and Alias. My mistake.

Nothing said here hasn't been said before, in person, over beers and sandwiches at (insert tavern name here).


1/2 Chinese? That explains the driving. :P

If one person callls you an ass, ignore them.

If another person callls you an ass, ignore them.

If a third person callls you an ass, buy a saddle.

recently acquired S4, though if the MTM box I have in the S4 deletes the speed limiter, maybe not. With MTM it's supposed to produce 309 hp, the Aero tops out at 225 hp.

Of course I would never try to reach top speed in either on a public road.

I assume you have experience in this area.

You do realize that if three asses in succession call me an ass I might not accept their opinion.

I happen to have an accurate self image so the opinions of others are not especially relevant to me. Either they agree with me which adds nothing to my knowledge base, or they disagree in which case I can add to theirs.

needed 8^)

However, if one were to flog this car round a trakc without letting up I suspect the tiny turbos would be cooked pretty quickly. On the street it isn't feasible to use anythign like full boost for more than a few seconds at a time. Since the S4 has exhaust gas temperature probes this shoudl be enough to protect the engine from melting the turbos, assuming MTM doesn't bypass Audi's protective software in that regard.

Flogging any street turbo set up is a recipe for turbo failure. I've driven turbo engines for over 20 years with no failures whatsoever. Let us see how this S4 does.

Some small preventative changes to stock components are necessary....

- 710N bypass valves
- Replace your old TBB, even if its not broken
- Build and use a pressure tester as per AWE's website BEFORE using the chip, especially since this was someone else's car before yours.

Small steps to potentially save big bucks. And what the heck is your EGT sensor reference all about?? K03 turbos don't melt due to excessive exhaust heat, they just break from the stresses. EGT sensors have not saved hundreds before you.

Let me know if you need any more advice.....although I'm sure being the "Noob" is going to be tough for you, we're a great group for offering modding advice (both Canada and S4 forums).

Aman<ul><li><a href="http://forums.audiworld.com/canada/msgs/72516.phtml">So no-one can ever offer you useful advice???</a></li></ul>

What does the pressure tester do for you?

I assume TB means throttle body, what does the extra B refer to?

The PO upgraded the bypass valves to the ones used on the TT I believe, is this the same upgrade you refer to?

The car has an AWE boost guage which seems reasonably accurate, the MTM chip basically doubles the peak boost (technically the peak boost seems to go from around 9 psi to around 15, slightly less than my Aero), but not for long. The ECU cuts boost aggressively after a few seconds at most at 15 psi or so.

Actually, it is thought that controlling exhaust gas temperatures are critical to preserving turbo life ( not to mention exhaust valves) which is probably why Audi includes them on their V6, I suppose, although most manufacturers of street engines don't bother.

I'm not sure I understand your remark about turbo's breaking, they don't, the bearings fail. The number one cause of turbo failure is overheating of the bearing, usually just the oil at first causing excessive wear. Basically, the turbo only has one moving part, and it floats on a film of oil. As long as the oil film doesn't break neither can the turbo. There are incidental possibilities like compressor failure due to pressure waves caused when the throttle snaps shut but that's what the bypass valves are there to deal with.

Basically, heat destroys the oil film, either directly or by damaging the oil seals, which then allows the turbo to contact the inside of the housing resulting in noise and lots of oil burning. Until the bearing fails the turbo will run basically forever with no wear.

Bypass valves are critical parts but they are pretty simple and "upgrading" them has nothing much to do with turbo life. Drivability and turbo lag are affected by the bypass valve but basically they are either open or shut. High performance bypass valves are pretty much marketing hype. Plain old cheap plastic ones work fine.

I do hear that the K 03 turbos are a weak link, anyone know why? SAAB's use Garrett and Mitsubishi with very few turbo failures, and they run higher boost than chipped Audis.

You guys still aren't demonstrating you know much about Audi Turbos, and I am supposedly just a noob.

of your great wisdom of turbo workings.

And when you tell them your SAAB boosts more than your chipped turbo they will have some comments on that one. Saabusa.com tells me your car boosts to 8.7 psi And I don't see how a 250 hp 258 lb ft torque 3300 pound can beat a 310 hp 356 lb ft torque 3650 pound car. That adds up to 60 hp and 98 lb ft torque difference.

Bye the way, my peak boost is 19 psi and it holds 17 for quite a while on stock turbos and track my car pretty often and the turbos are fine. Are they a weak link, yes. Does pushing them hard cause them to fail? That has not been proven. Many many people without modifications to their car have had turbo failures and may that have modified have not. Proper warm up, cool down and high quality clean oil are the best ways to save the snails.

the pressure tester will simply verify no leaks. Crank it to 14psi or so to expose any potentially weak parts too. It is thought that overspool due to a sudden boost leak is a major culprit of many turbo failures.....

TBB is the rubber throttle body boot, infamous for cracking and causing boost leaks.

Diverter valves: check the part numbers on them...do they end in 710N? or even 710A? If yes you'll be ok in that regard.

EGT sensors would be a great way to ensure turbo life if they were dying due to overheating. HUNDREDS of blown K03's, no burnt out exhaust valves that I've read of.

Ko3's don't generally die from oil starvation....overspool due to boost leak leads to stress cracks in the turbine wheel, lost vanes, imbalance and failure.....or FOD (foreign object damage) on the Comp (cold side). Of course significant overspool could cause excessive heat and destroy the oil film leading to failure too.

I suggested the BPV upgrade b/c the stock ones are prone to cracking and leaking due to a crappy rubber diaphragm....the bosch 710N's are still plastic and still cheap. I'm not suggesting some blingy uber-valves.

K03's are simply too small for our application. The K04's are not too much bigger, and those failing is a pretty rare thing. Slower shaft speeds, even at higher boost = reliable.

Aman

sure he knows lots about general stuff like tires and oil and maybe turbos, but he's in a b5 S4 now, whole different ballgame! He's the noob, he needs the info, he'll assume the roll....how can he pretend to still be a know-it-all when he thought my suggestion of upgrading to 710n's was the same as a fancy-pants aftermarket DV? LOOOL, he'll feel silly enough times to realize the negative consequences of the pompous attitude are not worth it....

But I definitely would never go hunting with the guy!!!

Aman

exchanging useful info on a friendly basis.

If you wish to, check the Turbonater posts in the past and you'll find that it was I who was attacked at every turn. I just find that amusing and mildly challenging.


As for boost levels, I don't doubt you can increase boost if you want to. It is hard to do this and maintain drivability and low end torque.

I don't know which SAAB turbo you're referring to but my 97 boosts to just over 1.0 bar relative. One bar is approx 14.7 psi, as you know. Stock S4 boosts to something like .7 bar relative, (the manual says 1.55 to 1.65 bar which has to be absolute barometric rather than relative which is the usual way boost pressure is discussed)

As for my "jab" at Aman, that was just a response in kind to his attempt at a jab at me. Say it isn't so Aman. Apparently, this was lost on you guys, unless Aman was actually innocent of any ulterior motives in his post about the possible complexities of chipping Audis.

If we can exchange useful views I'm all for it. If we all want to see who can be "smarter" than the next guy, well, occasionally I'll like to set that record straight, but not often. It's tiring.

Interesting thread though. Some soft underbellies exposed here.

thanks for the info. Before I bought, or even looked for, an S4 I checked the Audiworld boards and found lots of info about their weak points. That's one reason I looked for a late build 2001.

I think I'd know right away if I had a significant boost leak. The way the stock boost pressure system works I can't see how a turbo could overspool. The boost leak would dump the exhaust pressure instantly, just as the stock BPV is supposed to do, with only one difference which I find it hard to believe could overspool these turbos.

That's one big advantage of feedback boost pressure control (invented by SAAB btw in the late 70's and released to the market in 1983 I believe, when Audi was on its death bead) as opposed to the more usual wastegate limited controller used before SAAB figured out how to smoothly and reliably link a cylinder head knock sensor to a computer and a boost dump solenoid using an otherwise enclosed intake system.

So, if overspooling is suspected to be the issue, how does this happen? A leak in the pressure side of the intake releasing boost pressure would automatically reduce the volume of exhaust gas reducing the capability of the turbine to accelerate, that's how the BPV and the BPC (boost pressure solenoid)valves work to control knock and modulate engine output.

A big rip in the TBB for example would dump boost just like the BPVs and the turbo's would stop accelerating.

I do know one scenario that might cause over spooling in this event, does that actually happen in practice or are people just speculating.

One more thing, if the K 03 turbo fails how is overspooling diagnosed as the cause? Aren't the symptoms just bearing and seal failure? How else can a turbo fail unless the vanes disintegrate without bearing failure?

go down to a bar frequented by Asian gangs and try asking the locals how their Engrish lessons are going.....

I agree that we suffer from too much PC, but it is as well to remember that we live in an intensely multicultural society in Canada and certain ways of talking have to be clearly in jest or they are in fact racist.

Clearly, many posters were sufficiently uncomfortable with the accusation that there is substance to it.

logic escapes me also.

No problem - 4Bidden, Aman_UnatrlyAspiratd, quartlow, T-dot B6, Capt.Canuck A4, myself

Problem - eh-4Q1.8, you

Clearly, the majority of posters responding to this this sub-thread were sufficiently comfortable with the in jest humor that there is no substance to the racist accusation.

In fact, before you posted in this sub-thread, only 1 person complained. So is "1 = clearly many" the new math?

You never actually mean it but you say it to people who aren't going to get offended. Many people on this board are friends so they don't take stuff like that seriously.

As it turns out, <a href="http://forums.audiworld.com/canada/msgs/72521.phtml">this donkey</a> has much to learn about our cars.

sense of humour by ojecting to racist remarks thinly disquised as humour. (Yes Quartlow, I'm sure that some of your best friends are Asian.)

they are smarter than everyone else and overall just being an ass.

You can't expect me (or others) to not react when some claims that "this forum has got a tad boring while I've been away". Do you even read what you right? Does it not sink into your thick skull that a statement like that makes you look like a jerk?

Why do you do it?

Just to get a rise out of people that LIKE this forum? What is the point of constantly trying to act smarter than the next guy? Really. Your posts are 100% obnoxious.

give me a recomondation for who makes a good car battery. I think I need to replace mine.

is that this is an open forum and while a friend might not be offended, others will. Did you know that racist (such as Quartlow's insensitive joke)and sexist comments made in the workplace is cause for instant dismisal in many companies?

LOL ok that sounded weird. Yeah i was poking fun for sure....below you posted that you
........."happen to have an accurate self image so the opinions of others are not especially relevant to me. Either they agree with me which adds nothing to my knowledge base, or they disagree in which case I can add to theirs".....

Which I took to imply that you know everything, and anyone that suggests otherwise knows less than you, and its your duty to teach them. Yes?

Well I will enjoy teaching you stuff about the S4.

Of course you could always become very cozy with the search-engine to avoid the humbling experience of asking for advice 8^)


Aman

Are there anyone not posting in this sub-thread that agrees with you? There might be, but I'm not gonna assume how other people feels.

If I want to play the game, I can argue that your assumption that someone you haven't met was a WASP, in a multiculture society, shows a clear bias toward WASPs &amp; against people of other cultures. Should I then call you a racist? No, because the racist label is a serious one &amp; I'm not gonna start throwing that around unless I have solid evidence.

The point is, only 1 poster, specifically you, was uncomfortable AND posted about it, before Turbonator's comment. Last time I checked, 1 poster does not equal clearly many posters.

And if Alias Unknown asks for character witnesses to prove that he's not a racist, a great many regular posters here will line up &amp; vouch for him.

accurate self image?????

if almost everyone on this forum thinks you are retarded dickh3ad, your self image might be nice and dandy for you, but for us it is a beyond laughable joke... i wouldnt expect nothing less from you though... you are probably playing with yourself reading all these posts that mildly challenge your personality...

done?

okay, now clean the mess before your boyfriend is back...

interesting exchange of info about Audis. Of course if someone else claims to know everything, or, at least more than I do, I expect him or her to prove it.

My S4 appears to be using a little oil. The consumption of Mobil 5W 40 seems to be around a liter per 5,000 km. I'm thinking either the rings haven't seated properly yet or the crankcase ventialtion system needs a look and clean out.

I'm more used to zero oil consumption these days, on my Aero with 200,000 km on the odo I never add oil between annual changes up to 16,000 km.

On the other hand, my 91 Alfa uses around a liter every 2,000 - 3,000 km and has since new.

with AC Delco in my Alfa.

I used to use Sears Die Hards but after about 1998 I think they went to a cheapo manufacturer instead of the top line maker they used to use. Maybe now Kal Tire has taken over Sears Auto business in Canada (in the West anyway) maybe they supply better batteries.

In Canada Exide used to supply really solid batteries, but who knows if they still do.

Interstate has a wholesale outlet just off Barlow Tr at 60 th Ave SE or so, if you know Calgary at all.

Is being a WASP a bad thing?

turbons? Did you know that that could be considered a racist term? Why are you not offended by this? I'm east indian and know many punjabi people who would be offended by this but I am not taking it to heart.

Maybe you should speak to your partner there and ask him about his name.

Look, I'm not calling eh-4Q1.8 a racist. I also don't find his WASP assumption racist at all. I'm just illustrating how extreme PC can twist words &amp; make innocent comments into racist comments. Personally I have absoultely no problem at all with WASPs.

- good job on '01.5 S4, some nice revisions but heavier

- You'd know of a BIG boost leak with boost deviation codes and, most obviously, throttle cut and 'limp mode' [few psi max, stuttery and slow]

- in the STOCK boost system it would be tough for turbos to overspool, even a small boost leak likely wouldn't do too much damage unless over a lengthy period of time

- just a CHIP can technically be considered overboosting, especially some of the more aggressive files (giac). Add a SMALL boost leak, one that won't initiate throttle cut....byebye turbos. Let's not forget that initial boost spike some of the chips display....

- <b>"The boost leak would dump the exhaust pressure instantly, just as the stock BPV is supposed to do"</b>.......the stock BPV dumps charge pressure when throttle is closed under boost. When the throttle is closed, exhaust volume decreases and turbo spool is decreased. This will not occur in a 'constantly venting' boost leak because throttle is still open (assuming the volumetric difference between MAF readings and the Intake Manifold is not so large as to initiate throttle cut). <b>YOU CANNOT COMPARE</b> BPV and N75 function to a boost leak.

- HUGE leaks will not kill your turbos by overspooling, small to moderate ones will (where the boost level requested by the ECU can still be met by an overspooling turbo)

- We call the 'boost dump solenoid' the N75 valve around here. Yes it dumps boost pressure by opening wastegates, but with many of the chipped files there's an initial spike due to lag in the system that is considered an 'overboost' scenario, inherent to the programming and hardware. Search 'manual boost controller'

- You're taking a risk by chipping your car no matter how you drive it, the sooner you come to terms with that, the better 8^)

- turbo failure: well, the dreaded 'dentist drill' is a key indicator of turbo failure. Dissecting these turbos will reveal turbines with missing blades or FOD'ed compressor wheels. Yes, the spewing white smoke indicates oil bearing failure as well, yes it also happens often, and yes they're usually missing vanes too.

Clear as mud eh?

Aman

seriously, what is WASP? white-anglo-saxon-protestent? that's the best I've got 8^(

the search tool would be best as these types of things are asked daily (it seems) over on AWS4 forum with the huge influx of noobs recently. You'll get more opinions from people that know more than me, too.

Check for leaks, all too common. Rear main seal, valvecover gaskets. hopefully not turbos. Turbo feed lines is common too.

Get your oil tested for coolant contamination (sign of RMS leakage).

I don't add oil b/t changes (usually).

Crankcase vent system check will be positive (you'll find oil in intake Y pipe, PCV valve intercoolers, bipipe, even throttle body). thats normal on these cars.

hope that helps
Aman

By the way, WASP can also be considered a derogatory term. If we really want to go overboard about it, it seems that some of our friends of English descent here are slighting themselves ;-p<ul><li><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WASP">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WASP</a</li></ul>

From page 112, interviewing the software geek at APR who said:

" leaning usually richer factory ratios (meaning A/F ratios leaner than stochio) can lead to higher than specified exhaust gas temperatures, the main cause of premature turbo failure".

The guys at APR should know since they write the software.

I understand your point about a slow boost leak but that could only have the same effect as the boost control software calling for less boost. It is the volume of exhaust gas that drives the turbos, not the throttle position. Boost leaks mean less charge means less exhaust meaning the turbo's can't speed up. An additional problem is that the Audi software uses Motronic which is an air mass system. The air mass is measured at the intake. Any boost leaks would tend to enrich the mixture as seen by the combustion chambers which should reduce power output quite noticably.

SAAB uses the rather more sophisticated absolute barometric pressure sensor to accurately measure the amount of air actually reaching the combustion chambers (it "infers" this but from intake plenum pressure not from a calculated air mass passing the AMM sensors) so is largely immune to boost leaks.

I suppose it is remotely possible that the K 03's are so undersized that they might exceed their designed maximum rpm due to some weird combination of ramp up speed as a proportion of exhaust gas volume, in other words they respond too much to a given change of exhaust gas volume, over wastegated in effect, but this seems less likely than APR's idea.

Basically, the overspeeding of a turbo could only cause a problem if it is so fast it destroys the oil film, or it is working so hard producing boost pressure it somehow destroys the oil film. If the oil film stays intact the turbo should unless it flies apart from centrifugal force.

Given these turbos are designed to run in excess of 100,000 rpm already, overspooling seems an unlikely explanation compared to the obvious one of exhaust gases getting too hot.

This would be why the RS4 needs bigger injectors and why bigger injectors are also necessary above certain boost levels for both standard Audi turbo engines....

No other leaks, engine seems tight still at 58,000 km, odd. No oil showing from any of the components, but will check sump oil for coolant.

Thanks for the info about usual places for oil in the PCV system, I'll look for excessive oil in the parts of the system easy to check.

unfortunately I'm a WASP. No offense intended Moro :-)

would that mean being called one is racist or not?

This whole thing is a slippery slope. I again challenge anyone who thinks making fun of Chinese alleged difficulty with the "l" sound" is not racist to try this line in a bar somewhere with lots of Chinese around, preferably the gang types....

I think it may be time to abandon this otherwise innocent thread. Thanks to all who responded for a very entertaining thread.

Thanks also for all who did not respond, failure to rise to the occasion was much the wiser choice, it seems.

Apologies to any and all who may have taken offence at my antics. No offence was intended, to anyone on any basis whatsoever. Personal apologies will be made on or off line to anyone who remains insulted, slighted, offended or otherwise out of sorts as a result of my impish sense of humour.

thought this device would improve power and economy.... I see the ads in the back of car magazines all the time. A Turbonater (sp?) is an apparently patented device that when installed in your intake creates a vortex effect. I thought everyone knew that.

And a vortex effect needs to be avoided in most instances or it may suck you in......

When I was young and before PC was de rigeur we used to get away with referring to turbans as "turbines" as in a "turbine powered taxi". We also used to get away with slagging orientals as "ornamentals". Surely it is a change for the better that we should think about when or even if we should attempt humour like this?

After all, you should inquire what the oriental calls us whites (yup, I'm white, mostly, I think) when in the mood to be pejorative, you might not want to know though.

This thread's gone on too long for me even, over and out.

a comment can go from being harmless due to ignorance to being racist depending on interpretation.

I was born in a British colony, and the Queen is still technically head-of-state in Canada as well, so yeah, long live the Queen.

For showing concerns for racism towards us Asians even when we don't feel it, you are cool in my books.

who said anything about lean condition? all chips have corresponding fueling adjustments to maintain appropriate AFR. Yes lean condition will cook your turbos (and heads and exhaust valves etc etc) but that's not part of this discussion.

<b>SAAB uses the rather more sophisticated absolute barometric pressure sensor to accuratel measure the amount of air actually reaching the combustion chambers (it "infers" this but from intake plenum pressure not from a calculated air mass passing the AMM sensors) so is largely immune to boost leaks.</b> You can find said 'magical' sensor on top of your TBB. Called the MAP sensor [manifold absolute pressure].

Please learn more of the S4's turbo system before making such statements....there is a great article on wikipedia and search 'edyjun' for another great source for noobs.

Simple scenario (random numbers). stock boost, turbine spins 70G rpm (9psi). Chipped, 120G rpm (15psi). Small boost leak + chipped, 150G rpm (15psi). Extra spooling to compensate lost charge pressure, done by further limiting wastegate actuation by the ECU and n75. <b>SIMPLE</b>

Many people pull their turbos because of the 'dentist drill' whine and find missing turbine vanes, with the oil bearing and seals intact.


Aman

a standard Bosch Motronic type hot film air mass sensor. Why do you think there's a MAP? There is a charge pressure sender where you say the MAP is but it doesn't measure air mass entering the engine. That refinement is something only SAAB Trionic equipped cars have. I do read stuff before I post.

Audi's own publications for their mechanics make no mention of a MAP for teh 2.7 V6. In fact, there's an altitude sensor, integral to the control unit, which isn't necessary if absolute barometric pressure is being measured.

The 1.8 does have such a beast.

As for turbo overspeeding, well, if there's anectodal evidence out there how come APR doesn't seem worried about it. MTM isn't either.

If you pressure test the intake system, how does this predict boost leaks?

Before you get too carried away maybe you should read Audi's stuff before relying on Wikipedia, brilliant though that latter resource can be.

most of my female cousins have married Italians too...

Plus I know the ancient art of making gnocchi!

the other half drives a taxi!

JUST KIDDING EVERYONE!!! NO NEED TO START A RACE WAR HERE... I AM MAKING FUN OF MYSELF AND I AM NOT OFFENDED!!!

1) Do you know what MAP stands for? Do you understand a charge pressure sensor is the same thing? <b> go unplug your MAF and drive your car around....still going eh? SPEED DENSITY mode because that charge pressure sensor IS a freakin manifold absolute pressure sensor, and there's an intake air temp sender just below it.....IMAGINE!!!!</b>

2) Chip tuners cannot/will not be held liable for the weak ass turbos audi put on the S4 from the factory. How would that help their sales? There's a reason why awe has pressure tester instructions right on their website. And these same 'unconcerned' chip tuners state reliability as a major selling point for their K04 kits. If your lean hypothesis applied here, cars running K04's on stock fueling should be toasting turbos too, and they don't (stg 3-)

3) Pressurize the intake, listen for leaks, pin them down. There's specifics (unscrew oil filler cap etc), can be found on the aforementioned resources

4) If I was only reading wiki and others posted information and ignoring all audi documents (which I'm not), I'd still be in better shape regarding some simple automotive principles than you, such as
- MAP sensor = charge pressure sensor.....holy crap their both stinking piezoelectric sensors man!!!!!
- normal BPV and n75 function DO NOT accomplish the same thing a boost leak would (OMG!!! I can't believe I have to argue this to someone)

but....but.....only saab can do that. ROFLMFAO

In all seriousness though, joking aside, I don't think that you can expect all of your saab knowledge to transfer directly to the s4 and make you an instant expert. I have no trouble helping people out, spend lots of time doing it, but so long as there's an attitude that's open to learning. I hope examples in this thread will make you an adament follower of the S4 forum, where you WILL pick up tons of knowledge, if you're open-minded enough to realize you don't know everything (this thread submitted as evidence to that)

Aman

The charge pressure controller on the Audi S4 2.7 does not have anything to do with the measurement of the air mass. The Audi uses this purely to control boost pressure by sending an appropriate signal to the ECU. The engine will run without it, not perfectly but it will run, according to Audi who should know.

The SAAB uses this device to actually measure the mass of air in the intake plenum under boost or not as the case may be. This is a more sophisticated way of performing this task. Audi still uses a hot film AMM for this function. The Audi will not run with no AMM, the SAAB will not run with no absolute pressure sensor.

Your posts merely reveal that you know less than you think you do. They say nothing about what I know or don't know about Audi's or any other brand of car.

<center><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/52172/forks2.jpg"></center><p>I'll do it for you.

That was my first and only time going down to the Forks of the Credit...

Anyone know what happened to that Alex kid?

I've seen Heffler a few times, haven't seen Kristina since she got the bike (haven't even seen the 'stang yet) and I definately need to check out your uber-bunny!

My car was bone stock back then...

<center><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/52172/forks1.jpg"></center><p>
Alias, his cousin, me (they stuck the token WASA in the middle to balance things out), kristina, AlexVR, Heffler, and as usual, Tanner behind the camera.