And that doesn't even count the fuel pump, tranny fluid, plugs, headlight washer fluid, and tire air flush he's going to try and sell you.

<a href="http://forums.audiworld.com/texas/msgs/682.phtml">http://forums.audiworld.com/texas/msgs/682.phtml</a>

i posted a link in the thread. that's where i'm taking my car -&gt; european precision. that or the dealer.

give a little more for that price. I mean dealer quoted 900 drive out for belt+waterpump.

If so...seems like a fair deal to me. The front of the car has to come off to get to the timing belt IIRC.

how much is he charging per hour now? it seems to be increasing with each passing month. =/

he charged me $450 for coilover install... 6months ago? no alignment and uneven heights all around. that price is up to $500 last i heard.

the front end does have to come off for the belts and what not. and if i remember... it shouldnt take more than an hour to yank the bumper and the radiator .. drain the coolant etc.

I know Mike is thorough and will do the job right. He won't leave out bolts or do the job half-assed. It's up to you man.

Yeah, Mike raised his shop rates a while back...BTDT.

If the suspension was uneven, you should have taken it back. Mike would have fixed it. Did you call him and tell him?

I've had nothing but excellent work done by him....

i'll talk to him later and see what "everything" drive out means.

i adjusted the heights over the course of a few weekends on my own time. no biggy.

the coilover price and install job are not the reasons why i no longer choose staley.

i trust he knows his way around our cars. i have little doubt concerning his competence as a mechanic.

let me just say .. it's not his skills as a mechanic that i mistrust. =/

<a href="http://forums.audiworld.com/texas/msgs/837.phtml">http://forums.audiworld.com/texas/msgs/837.phtml</a>

<ul><li><a href="http://forums.audiworld.com/s4/msgs/940871.phtml">http://forums.audiworld.com/s4/msgs/940871.phtml</a></li></ul>

I can understand your frustration but to come on the forum and talk about how unhappy you are but did nothing about it...doesn't make sense.

<i>i adjusted the heights over the course of a few weekends on my own time. no biggy.

the coilover price and install job are not the reasons why i no longer choose staley.</i>

what i forgot to add is ..

the install should've at *<b>least</b>* resulted in a reasonably equal ride height. what i got back was unreasonably missmatched. the fronts didnt match each other nor did the rears. 1 finger gap on the right vs 2 finger gap on the left?

is this something to expect from someone who's lauded for his fastidiousnes? of course people are people and will make their fair share of mistakes. i let it go. my friend on the other hand was really miffed by the results and the fact that i did not get the commonly included alignment job .. but as i said .. i let it go.

again i say <i>the coilover price and install job are not the reasons why i no longer choose staley.</i>

that's something i'd rather not get into again. i bear no ill will towards mike but will continue to go elsewell.

yet did not contact Mike to tell him. He would have made it right. You say you let it go but then why are you still complaining about it here?

No sweat man...not flaming you...just doesn't make sense is all.

<ul><li><a href="http://forums.audiworld.com/performance/msgs/42661.phtml">http://forums.audiworld.com/performance/msgs/42661.phtml</a></li></ul>

This seems way to long and drawn out for someone who has "let it go".

Sorry you had a bad experience. Myself and TONS of others have had nothing but great experiences and I have nothing but good things to say about Mike, Bobs Auto and the work they do.

Yes, your car should have been adjusted correctly but you also should have given Mike the chance to make it right.

As far as price increases go, he at one time raised his labor rate so that may be why the hike in cost. I know at one time I was miffed that he was charging more. I got over it...for real though!

Everyone carry on...there's nothing to see here! ;)

well .. anyways.

it appears you and i are the only ones hitting the refresh button here tonight. hehe

well .. i'm off to log some data. besides .. i've got a tank full of 104 that's just begging to be used. =)

A quick look in my Engineer's Handbook.
Std all thread for constrution is 36 kips per square inch. Yield strength. (36,000 psi)

That same bolt quenched and tempered will reach about 96 ksi ("HIgh Strength"). But with various alloys and quenching bolts can be purchased that go as high as 160 ksi before yield. I would bet a factory turbo bolt is probably in the 140 ksi range. And at best the bolts Staley installed were 96 ksi, but the real kicker is that fact that he cut these from standard all thread. Which is a definate obvious no-no because manufacturing tolerances for a product used in construction of buildings is an entirely different thing to machinery items. Statistically speaking an off the shelf piece of all thread can have many inclusions that might effect strength, probably not under normal operating conditions. But the chance of getting a defect in a small section is very high. Thats no big deal if the load that bolt sees is about 60% of yield which is what steel building design allows, but for automotive purposes design loads can be at or near maximum. So critical bolts are often x-rayed en masse by the factory, or at least precisely made with exact control and metallurgy. (Crank bolts, Head to block, turbos)

In defense of the Installer, The turbo install was their first and the customer was rushing for the car.

An unfortunate experience that many people on this forum will learn alot from.<ul><li><a href="http://forums.audiworld.com/s4/msgs/940871.phtml">http://forums.audiworld.com/s4/msgs/940871.phtml</a</li></ul>

When we spoke on the telephone about your repair
I told you that it is generally a good idea to replace everything under the timing cover when you are working there..
This insures you that you will not have to open the timing cover again for at least 60k miles.. Nothing like doing all this work and skimping on a 40 roller bearing.. and having that fail in 30k miles.. and you have to pay all over again.

Here is what I recommend you replace:

Timing belt and updated tensioner assy.
New roller bearing

ALL front engine oil seals ( cam, crank &amp; intermediate shaft o-ring and seal.

Waterpump, thermostat &amp; gasket.
Flush coolant.

Replace drivebelts( ALT, A/C, waterpump.)

and throw on a snubmount while you are there.

All genuine Audi parts. Except for the snub of course

The last A4 that I did this exact work on was like 920 driveout.

I gave you about 1000 on the telephone..
It definately does not cost more than 1k for that repair and should not.

Catcha later,
Mike Staley


We certainly DO NOT have to replace all these things.. It is just a recomendation.. You can just replace the belt &amp; Tensioner assy an drive away a LOT cheaper.

OH and please read my reply to the S4 issue.
I have been out of town since Fri.
and also read the reply that I finally made to Jasyn.
Thanks
Later
Mike

I'll give you some more details Wed.

NickS is very correct.. I never received a call about any suspension issues from you.. So as far as I was concerned.. you were completely satisfied with your repair.


If you remember back to the day that you picked up your car I informed you that suspensions settle (have you ever heard that word before?? look it up in a dictionary)

I will re-adjust the vehicle for FREE the first time after a coilover suspension install.. So you did it yourself good for you. You saved me the trouble. Your car was within 1/8 ride height per wheel when it left my shop.

Okay now the next issue
Your friggen Stage 3

1. YOU call me at the shop and tell me that you want me to install YOUR Stage 3 and that you are NOT going to buy the stage 3 from me cause I will save like 300 in sales tax! and APR will only charge me $60 to ship.
Then you tell me lets "work a deal"
so its goof for both of us.
Okay I'll work you a deal.. add 500 bucks to the price of labor which I raised while we were talking on the phone from 500-750 cause I just felt like working you a deal.. that is what you wanted wasn't it? so that's 1250 to install YOUR A4's Stage3 install (which by the way I still only charge 500 to install in a a4)

If you don't like that then take it somewhere else..
which you did.. obviously.. From what I read about your install it appears that you REALLY saved some cash because you installed it yourself!
Now don't you feel much better about accomplishing a task like that!

I'm real glad that you didn't bring it to my shop because I would have told you where to stick your car anyway.

I have a very good reputation and work on LOTS of cars.. Everyone makes mistakes and if I would have made one I would have apologized to you about it.. The only mistake that I made with your car was working on it in the first place..

Look back again and read a reply on palisoc's page.. I actually posted something like hey give me a call... lets try and work thru our differences.. We are too small of a community to have enemies..

Well just ignore that (which obviously you have)
I would not work on any of your cars again if you offered me double pay.

All this over $240 bucks.. pheww! now that is a lot of cash!

later
mike staley

... your memory sure is crap.

i'm going to address a few things here ..

<i>If you remember back to the day that you picked up your car I informed you that suspensions settle (have you ever heard that word before?? look it up in a dictionary)

I will re-adjust the vehicle for FREE the first time after a coilover suspension install.. So you did it yourself good for you. You saved me the trouble. Your car was within 1/8 ride height per wheel when it left my shop.</i>

settling? that's like getting married right? within 1/8? i assume you mean inches and not centimeters? well, i'm not sure about you but most people's finger width measure far more than either 1/8 cm or in. what type of measuring device did you use? perhaps the universal laws of physics dont apply where you are? or is your simple refusal to believe sufficient?

settling of the springs and bushings occurs over "time". time based on the total distance traveled. distance traveled measured over specific road surfaces needed to excite the suspension. a catalyst if you will. houston is very conducive to suspension "settling". there was more than ample time.


<i>Look back again and read a reply on palisoc's page.. I actually posted something like hey give me a call... lets try and work thru our differences.. We are too small of a community to have enemies..

Well just ignore that (which obviously you have)
I would not work on any of your cars again if you offered me double pay.
</i>

i just checked palisoc's board which is running phpBB software. there's a specific feature it offers. it lets you list ALL posts by ANY user. i read through your 22 posts since 7/21/02. i found not a single post in your wildest opiated dillusional imagination that may be construed as related to this debacle. it's that memory thing again isnt it? perhaps you meant to and forgot? good intentions fall flat without execution.

<i>All this over $240 bucks.. pheww! now that is a lot of cash!</i>

apparently .. you still have yet to get over your simple arithmetic issues.

que sara sara man.

Where exactly do you tell customers to stick their cars and how much do you charge for that advice?

<A HREF="http://www.palisoc.net/BB2Public/viewtopic.php?t=351&highlight=">Clicky Clicky</A>
It is the last reply in the list.

and as far as settling goes...
When you install a set of aftermarket springs.
and apply the vehicle weight to them
they will "settle" and the car will lower more.
generally it takes couple of days to a week to see effects.
ASK any place that sells springs that same ?.

I recommend readjusting coilovers after 2 weeks.

If you would have purchased your stage 3 from me.
parts 3995
tax 329.59
shipping 0
labor 500
total 4824.59


wanna buy it somewhere else that is cool
parts 3995
tax 0
shipping 60 &lt;-- i think that is what you told me
labor 1000
total 5055

difference
230

You started off your telephone conversation off in such a great way.
Hey Mike.. I want you to install my Stage 3
OH and i'm gonna buy it from APR direct cause i'll save like 300 in tax!

so I thru the extra 250 in there because I can.

Later,
Mike

...because its the sales tax that sparked the whole issue, which was compounded by the fact that APR competes with you by selling direct to customers.

Rather than taking out frustration/anger/whatever on your customers by jacking up the installation fee and telling them to "stick it", why dont you bring up the real problem with APR? I doubt you're the only installer to encounter this issue.

You could even be so bold as to suggest a solution - such as a commission plan where the customer buys the part(s) from APR and names you as their local reseller/dealer. APR cuts you a comission check, and everyone is happy.

Friendly suggestion.

<i>
<u>Clicky Clicky</u>
It is the last reply in the list.
</i>

my apologies. youre right. your post is there. i didnt read closely enough, nor did i read every thread not directly addressed to me. unfortunately you posted in another forum 2 months after the fact. direct email would've been far more reliable. =)

forget the coilovers. it didnt bother me that much. i still went back to you for the stage3 install remember? the issue i have is concerning the events surrounding the stage3 install/pricing.

<i>
If you would have purchased your stage 3 from me.
parts 3995
tax 329.59
shipping 0
labor 500
total 4824.59

wanna buy it somewhere else that is cool
parts 3995
tax 0
shipping 60 -- i think that is what you told me
labor 1000
total 5055

difference
230

so I thru the extra 250 in there because I can.
</i>

here's where i remember differently. you'll note that i posted my rant shortly after we spoke. the conversation and events were very very clear in my mind. it's not everyday i buy a stage3 kit and a potential $5000 drop on the credit card. you on the other hand have come to revisit said events many months afterwards. can you really say that all the facts are clear in your mind?

i dont understand where your second set of numbers came from. the difference as i see it would be:

3995 - parts
75 - shipping
550 - original labor qoute
200 - "because you can" (does that mean u should? why did you anyways?)
500 - to recoup lost profit

(3995+75+550+200+500) = $5320 - $4825 = $495.

you qouted me $550 originally. very reasonable imo. you then added another $200 *before* i told you about ordering the kit from apr. the explanation of that one was off. $750 was *still* acceptable to me even though the reason was not. the numbers and the reasons behind them are what put me off. well .. that pretty much set me as the only vocal anti staley audi/vw owner in houston. =?

youre right. the houston vw/audi community is fairly "small". you still wanna work this out? if so then let's take this offline.

Come by the shop Friday afternoon. Ill give you a tank of 104 for all the troubles.
Later,
Mike

j/k ;)

hehe.

thanks for the offer man but i doubt i'll make it. =/

work and what not. there's no way i'm venturing out on the highway between 4-7pm especially on a friday. sucks .. then there's this fay BIYATCH! i may be staying home all weekend. =)