I need to find a stress bar for my A4. But I don't want a double bar. I want the ones that<br>goes over the engine not the battery.Anyone? Anyone?<p>Also I just installed Apex springs the other day and I'm not completely sold on the ride.<br>I under stand that there is some give and take when installing just springs and not <br>struts but, I lost alot of comfort. Maybe its just something to get used to? The car <br>looks Awesome and corners alot better ...do I need aftermarket struts aswell ?<br>

I use a TAP stess bar that runs just in front of the fire wall, so not at all close to the battery.<br> I always change shocks when upgrading to stiffer lower springs as factory shocks have a hard time keeping up with the new springs and because heavier srings will wear out stock or even Audi sports shocks in a very short time. With the right combo you should not feel to much of a loss in comfort, maybe you need to re-think your set up?

Don't get me wrong...I support getting stress bars when needed...(ie. two of my GTi cars) but I don't think it is going to do anything on the A4...or if anything...not worth the $150-200 for the bar. This is just my opinion, but I think it would be cosmetic at best. I would try to talk to Ivor at TAP....and as a counterpoint talk to Danny or Aaron at Neuspeed. As you may recall, Neuspeed decided on not doing a stress bar for the A4 due to the fact that they thought it did not do anything. Don't forget Sean G's problems with another stress bar manufacturer (name not disclosed)<p>Steve S.<br>97 2.8QM

Thanks Steve, you are a gentleman, I'm pretty sick of this issue. Yet, once again it seems that the archives are just too complex to use.<p>Stress bars are very useful in poorly-designed cars. I needed one in my old japanese car. The A4 has a very effective built-in double firewall, far more effective than ANY stress bar. And when you get hit on one side, the firewall will not destroy the other side of the car like a stress bar will.

I did talk to TAP, and he felt as I did that with larger wheels and tires, and other mods, it was a good idea. He advised against larger sway bars and was right, did'nt Neuspeed blow it on that one, ie cracked subframes?<br> If you put your hand at the top of the rear door at the point it hits the body, as you go over bumps (washboards are best) you can feel the flex in the body. I agree that the A4 is better, but with the R28 Ronals and Eibach/Koni combo, I feel this is cheap insurance.I paid a better price than you stated,but I still think it's worth 150.After all when you pay that much to do the suspension right why not make sure you are getting the rubber to the road the best you can, this piece is still less than a wheel alignment, and may save you a wheel alignment.

Erik, If you get hit that hard, the stress bar will be the least of your worries. If you wack a good pothole the stressbar may help, but I feel these bars help only when you go to larger (was the A4 set up for wheels that weigh as much as the Ronal R28's)beefier springs and shocks. The A4 is well designed, and that is why they put as little flex into the body as is proper within the design perameters, but what happens when you exceed the built in limits, and what are the limits? Better safe than sorry, this is cheap insurance.

The aftermarket sway bars would be a good choice too. But that is backfiring on several of us. (see archives for more).<p>I don't think that I've heard of any reports of actual benefits of the stress bar, just theoretical.<p>Stress(bar) free,<br>Sharon

Yes, life will be bad if that much happens, but what the bar does is transfers all the energy to the other side. So what would likely have been undamaged gets twisted. Try that on your insurance agent. (I have heard this is a problem but don't know)<p>The engineers did a superb job on this car, and if they felt that a bar was beeded they would have put one in. Let me explain, the bar transfers inward movement of the shock tower to the other side of the car. This is a fact. <p>But we have a full metal "curtain" that follows the entire axis of the shock tower. Think of it like a huge "strut bar" that holds both sides together from the bottom to the top. So, it controls all the lateral chassis flex, instead of just the flex at the top of the tower, like a bar.<p>Some folks say they can feel the WHOLE chassis flex, and I agree that it does. A very tiny amount, from whole chassis diagonal flexing. The only way to solve this is with a full race cage.<p>All this being said, the greatest flex in the system comes not from any of this chassis stuff, but from the isolation bushings in the subframes, where the suspension is attached to the chassis.<p>This is argued almost continuously by the pcar folks. Weltmaster did a stress analysis and found the top shock tower busing was responsible for all the flex in just that isolated part. The bar couldn't transfer force, because the bushing inside moved first. First, they all say replace the bushings, then play around with the rest of the system.

I talked to them today also....Jeff said that if you want to improve the structural rigidity of the A4, and you don't have springs/shocks/sway bars, yes, the stress bar may help somewhat. But, if you have springs and shocks (and maybe sway bars) the stress bar will do little to improve a much stiffer car. I could not talk to Ivor as he was on the phone.<p>Steve S.<br>97 2.8QM<p>P.S. I will not be getting a stress bar on my car since I already have the H&R coilovers, and Neuspeed sway bars, and the Ronal R-28 17" wheels.

This makes no sense, the heavy suspension parts mean you need structural rigity even more, not less. I've talked to Jeff many times and on this one his logic escapes me, more wheel weight, stiffer springs, wider tires, all add up to more flex in the body, I would say with a stock set up the double fire wall is plenty, ask Ivor if he uses a strut bar in his race car, I bet he does. Also ask those of us who used to Auto-cross. Do'nt get me wrong, this is not a biggy, but I like to know that that whole area is as solid as I can make it.

Building a car for the street is all about comprimize, to much strctural rigitity can get transfered to the driver and the car may seem uncomfortable, as for the test you refered to were they done on an AUDI with lowered stiffer springs, upgraded shocks, larger tires, different alignment specs? Yes this is a well made car, but to follow your logic, if Audi felt 205 tires are big enough, does that mean I should get rid of my wonderfull Ronal R28's? You do not need to stop all the body flex on a road car, just add a little more strength to the front and it may(?) help keep better contact with the road, very little if any transfer to the opposite side should occure as I do not believe it will move at all or very little. I agree about the bushings, but if the front suspension flexes and the bushings flex, getting rid of the body flex due to structural rigitity, leaves only the bushing and might yeild some improvement. Also in a crash this bar might transfer damage to the other side while protecting the area around your legs, I say might, but perhaps a small chance. But in the end I suggest you don't buy one, and be happy, I will not take mine out and will also be happy.

Performance Handling, How to make your car handle, techniques for the 90's. By Don Alexander, pg 61<br>How to Make You Car Handle, By Fred Puhn<br>Sports Car and Competition Driving By Paul Frere

Phil...I have started autocrossing again...in my A4. I use to autocross occasionally in the mid 80's in my 84 VW GTI and 85 Golf GTI....both of them had stress bars...and sway bars. My A4 is just about the heaviest one out there with aftermarket (heavier) Ronal wheels, sway bars, with Quattro, and the V6 engine. Weight is my most debilitating enemy. Stress bar weighs another 8-10 lbs, so I would rather pass on it if it does not clearly show a benefit. The most important thing for me at this time is to get some grippy tires....at minimum some Bridgestone S-02, Kumho, Toyo Proxes, or some of them new BFG G-Forces.<p>I plan to do another 6-8 autocrosses and 3-4 drivers schools in 99.<p>Steve S.<br>97 2.8QM<p>P.S. I will call Ivor and ask him again.<br>

For improving track technique and general defensive driving techniques....read Twist of the Wrist I and II. Vision is everything.<p>Steve S.<br>97 2.8QM<br>