<center><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/90655/tires.jpg"></center><p>Does Second Creek do this to all tires or just older ones that might be a little dry, or Was I doing something wrong on the track?
...onto the sidewall. Maybe not as much, but I don't think the tire is the problem. Clearly track-specific tires would be less likely to chunk, but he could use the same tires and have them properly inflated in oreder to avoid/lessen chunking.
I've used ES100s for a while now and they've never looked half that bad.
You still have to worry about this with a track-specific tire.
05-16-2005, 10:28 AM
05-16-2005, 10:40 AM
After seeing what happened to these I doubt I will take the Maxxs out there until they are nearing the end of their life.
I didn't check tire pressure while out there but that is something I need to take into account next time.
05-16-2005, 10:41 AM
05-16-2005, 10:44 AM
05-16-2005, 10:47 AM
including track tires and race pads, so your tires don't unexpectedly shred, your rotors don't warp, and your brakes don't catch on fire.
05-16-2005, 10:54 AM
Actually there was a motorbike on the track and a mustang that went one lap and broke down.
05-16-2005, 11:11 AM
shoulda probably been closer to 40psi cold.
05-16-2005, 11:14 AM
j/k- Reggie did valiant work all weekend flagging us in and out.
05-16-2005, 11:17 AM
05-16-2005, 11:38 AM
the hot tire would then make the pressure higher.
But then I really didn't know what to run on the track. This is all good info.
Would running good tire pressure also reduce the amount of squeeling and tire noise?
05-16-2005, 11:41 AM
Often the fast way around the track is with minimal tire squeal.
05-16-2005, 11:42 AM
but driving school is the place to really reduce squealing
05-16-2005, 11:46 AM
05-16-2005, 12:45 PM
05-16-2005, 02:41 PM
squealing tires, practically drifting around Turn 1 and the boot. Hell, in Spectator I actually put ABS back on because I was spinning all four wheels coming out of there , until the car hooked up halfway to the Drift. The line is important, not whether tires are making noise. When I was privileged to be passenger in our car with Paul Lambert and Randy Pobst at Buttonwillow, Willow Springs, and Brainerd, those guys made the car feel as if the wheels were off the ground half the time, and they were constantly adding inputs to steering, brakes or throttle. The tires were singing on all the tight turns :)
If you haven't ridden with a real pro..DO IT !
(PS, I think that's Mark in the 993 in the photo...cheers to Mark !)
05-16-2005, 03:30 PM
05-16-2005, 03:39 PM
05-16-2005, 04:02 PM
settings on the S4
05-16-2005, 04:13 PM
IT does appear the tires are under inflated judging by the obvious impeding sidewall scuffing. SCR is a very rough track, and I have seen much worse than that with a set of regular street tires. Most of the tire damage I see in that picture results from severe positive camber from a loaded suspension and excessive body roll, putting more wear on the outbord edge of the tires in the corners. Ideally you would want fairly significant negative camber to compensate. If you think about your contact patch, higher tire temperatures are resulting from the contact patch becoming so small, because of the body roll in the corners on that outboard edge. When tires get too hot and they hit debris they will possibly chunk like that. I don't know if addition more or less pressure will fix that issue, I would recommend less speed and modifying your suspension for the track use.
The best way to determine the proper camber for the track is to measure the temperature profile across the tire tread immediately after completing some hot laps. In general, it's desirable to have the inboard edge of the tire slightly hotter than the outboard edge.
05-16-2005, 04:14 PM
05-16-2005, 04:16 PM
05-16-2005, 04:37 PM
to that. BTW, I often change my own wheels and tires, etc. so if there is a problem I know who caused it :)
05-16-2005, 05:08 PM
At least DOT street tires anyway. The chunking you got is pretty typical of an underinflated street tire or even DOT race tire for that matter.
I generally tell people to start at 40lbs front and 42lbs rear (COLD) in an Audi on street tires. You can always adjust from there, but that's a good starting point. I run 40/40 in my Focus on street tires and can make the thing dance! ;)
As for noise? A singing tire is a happy tire. Street tires will make a ton of noise and it's how you control the noise that matters. As you get better, you will find that the tire is quiet when you are going straight. In the turns the tires will yell, scream, and hollar, but this is all good information. You can then work on being smooth so that the only time you hear it is when the wheel is turned.
DOT race tires are a little different. They provide so much grip that most times, the tire is silent. But, if you have honed your skills with street tires first, a lot of the learning is skipped. I would say do at least 20 HARD track days on street tires before moving to DOT race tires. It will be worth the wait.
If you come to the RMCB5 track day on the 30th, I'll give you a ride in the Focus and show you the proper line and what a tire is supposed to sound like.
05-16-2005, 06:06 PM
Your run was nothing less then phenominal for that track. Certainly the fastest Audi I've ever seen run there. Your Tires; however, were not squeeling. At least not in the sense that Pat ment. While I'm sure you can hear plenty of tire noise from the cockpit, to us spectators near turn 1 you were quite smooth and there wasn't any of that squeel which we associate with hitting the corner too hot and trying to beat the friction circle with more steering lock. The tire in the picture above has all the chunking on the outside and I'm convinced it was primarily abused by driver induced understeer. You can argue he needed better tires and more air and I'll argue that no equipent in the world will correct inexperiance. It will just let you do the same thing faster. BTW: I understand you were hit upward of 104 on that straight. WOW you had some great exit speeds.
05-16-2005, 08:57 PM
This is interesting feedback. Unfortuynately because of scheduling I could not go when anyone else was out there.
05-16-2005, 09:05 PM
I saw the the RMCB5 was having a GTG out there, but I've got a new born and my time is a little limited between changin diapers and work, so it might a couple months before I can get out there again. I am hopeing to get out to Second Creek for a GTG before the track closes later this summer.
05-17-2005, 04:33 AM
Until then, just let me know when you have time. There are several weekends that are open this summer and there are always the Wed night sessions. If you can't make the RMCB5 event, just drop me an email and we can meet out there.
05-17-2005, 05:45 AM
A friend of mine does 1:17s in his UrQuattro on Falken Ziex 512s. I run 1:26, so I'm far from a great driver, but I would hesitate to call 1:17 in Z's car "phenomenal." I think even he would admit to that. Nonetheless, crazy fast.
05-17-2005, 06:13 AM
05-17-2005, 06:15 AM
If you can clearly hear the tires squealing through turn one while in the paddock area, you may be entering the turn too fast.
05-17-2005, 06:33 AM
Here's the SCCA's track records for Second Creek. My car was running ~1:22 - 1:24 over the weekend. And yes, the Kumho MX tires were squeeling a lot. It's a new experience to be wearing out the back tires instead of the front.
I didn't know Zev was running times that fast - but as you can see in his pic he blew by me! Good job Zev - the car looks and sounds phenomenal! You shold let John F drive it sometime, I would be curious to see what he could do with it considering the times he coaxes out of his A4.<ul><li><a href="http://www.scca-cdr.org/Race/SCR.htm">Track Records - Clockwise</a></li></ul>
05-17-2005, 06:54 AM
That must be a very special urq to average ~78 mph on that track. I watched Keith Anderson turn 1:26 a few yeas ago with a built 10v urq.
05-17-2005, 06:57 AM
05-17-2005, 11:26 AM
05-17-2005, 01:15 PM
in and out of the car to call my sriving smooth ! I hope to get some serious seat time at this track before the impending (and wrongful)closure.
Was someone shooting radar to get that 104 mph trap ?
I know I was hitting triple digits, but I was focused on braking at the end of the straight and not going into the runoff area or ending up sideways like Pobst or Galati (accidentally) in Turn one.
05-17-2005, 01:25 PM
that the S4 can be pushed MUCH harder than I did on Sunday. I have learned and suggest others learn from pro drivers whenever possible in your own car. Running Streets of Willow with Paul Lambert at EuroTuner GP practice and swapping driving/passenger seats was an incredible experience, as was lapping Brainerd with Randy Pobst at the wheel. Brainerd is a big marvelous track where we hit 160+ on the front straight, and 135 mph in Turn 1 !!!
My short term goal for the summer is to run a 1:15 lap in the car, which will require me to be smoother especially in Spectator and Turn 1.
05-17-2005, 01:26 PM
05-17-2005, 01:27 PM
05-17-2005, 05:30 PM
05-17-2005, 05:39 PM
Not trying to slam Zev, but his car should be MUCH faster then a 1:17. Here are some of my times....