I was looking at short blocks for my now blown-up 1983 urquattro and found a site that was hot rod vw parts.
A 3.2 liter vr6 motor sounds very hot!
Anyone know if it will fit the bell housing?
08-07-2001, 10:22 PM
Why would you want that boat anchor in your Ur anyway? Don't get me wrong, the VR6 is a great motor, but they're REALLY expensive, and HEAVY. Probably a good 2-300lbs more than an I-5, and not that much more powerful(178hp for a 2.8, I'm not sure the spec on the 3.2), and much harder/more expensive to mod. Not to mention the nightmares of longitudinally mounting a motor that's designed to be transverse...exhaust fabrication, etc. If you've got that much time and money to sink into the project, go with a 20v turbo out of a 200tq or Ur-S car. Simpler bolt-up, and they're more readily tunable.
1 slow Audi
08-08-2001, 07:02 AM
Just rebuild your motor or get the 5000 turbo motor but dont put a vr6 in it, I have a passat with vr6 and I had turbo on it, I have a 5000 (look at my signature) and it is turbo and I will take the audi over VW anny day(I posted pictures a while back) my audi has 20v head and a stock rebuild 5000 block I have a huge T4 on it and running 20 psi and I can tell you that the car is faster than most of you could ever belive how powerfull those motors are and how durable they are if they are tuned right (tunning is the key to sucses)Belive me stick with the 5 cyl that is a one sick motor no VR will ever come close.
ps: ill post more pictures of my audi so you can see for your self.(videos coming soon)
08-08-2001, 10:16 AM
I wouldn't think so as it was designed for transverse installations, not straight.
Keep in mind that the Passat V6 used the Audi V6, not the VW VR6.
08-08-2001, 08:12 PM
Don't get me wrong. I really like my two urquattros. I have one which is completely stock however it is no rocket ship. I would like transplant a modern high torque engine into it.
The five cylinder engine is over rated. Audi got huge horsepower out of the I5 by injecting huge amounts of money. Money and technology that the average audi guy can not afford. A high reving low torque motor is ok. Look at how the bmw's are faster than the acuras in the touring car races when the track is too short to rev out the small japanese motors. TORQUE IS GOOD.
The V6 came out for a reason, more torque. Can you say "S4". 250 hp stock and a easy 350 with a few mods. A 350 hp I5 is a maintenance nightmare.
I already have a 4000 quattro race car with a 2bennett modified 10 valve MC motor. Yes it has tons of high end power but almost no torque under 3500 rpms. The car is a real dog up to thirty mph. I am learning how to drive a race car in the local soloII events. We have a huge intercooler, bosch motronic fuel injection, trick computer, trick cam, k26/k27 hybrid turbo, 3 1/2" exhaust. I spent alot of money and it's just not that fast Yes it's cool but not that cool.
The vr6 motor is the same base that vw rennsport team took 4th at Le Mans. It is smaller than the V6 or the V8. I want to get detailed dimensions and see if it will fit without major part and mount relocation. The digifant fuel injection by all accounts is very cool. The hot rod parts for VW are way cheaper.
I have seen 3.2 liter long blocks for $2700. I have seen all kinds of used superchargers for $700. A very worn out 3b will run $3500, so add at least $3000 for a rebuild. How do you figure it's cheaper.
This is why I am considering the vr6.
1 slow Audi
08-08-2001, 10:48 PM
Ya the motor may be cheaper but what about the labour puting it in even if you do it your self you still have to get the adaptor plate made and the down pipe the electronics since you are geting a long block it doesnt come with electronics or anny of that stuf.
If you want to talk about bottom end power than maby look at the compresion ratios you have a
7.8-1 compresion and a VR6 is 10-1 thats why it has more torque at the bottom end if you put ross pistons 10-1 in your motor you would have plenty of bottom end.
I have a 5000 with 20v and yes you are right I have no bottom end but thats cause I have 7-1 compresion I had the 9.3-1 compresion before and it has plenty of power but 20 psi on street gas and I had to retard the timing to 16 degrees at full boost on a warm day it was not worth goin that high on street gas now Im at 7-1 and it is little on the low side dut I have the boost set at 20 psi and the car with 22 degrees timing advanced the car has no sign of detonation on a very very hot day and this weekeng Im taking it to a track where I will be runing it at 30 psi its already tuned for that much boost and no sighn of pinging on street gas. That is what I call reliability I can beat and I do beat on the car every day and so far no sighn of problems.
I raced a civic that had a done B16A with 100 shot of spray (civic ran 12.8)last weakend and I kild it by about 7 cars and there is enough people to back that up, and thats only on 20 psi
Im not saying that it is a dumb idea but you have a car that alot of us would love to have and I belive that it should stay with the original motor, if it was 4000 for example it would be a very cool or interesting project but URquattro it brakes my hart.
08-09-2001, 07:28 AM
Damn dude, I have a watercooled turbo KH in my coupe and 15psi is all i can get out of it on 93 octane before it starts to ping. Maybe my T.A.P computer is a pile of ****
08-09-2001, 09:38 PM
This is the engine, all accessories, wiring harness, and ECU. I wouldn't pay more for something that isn't a lot better.
1 slow Audi
08-10-2001, 12:54 AM
I have alot more than boltons everyting is custom and I mean everything. The only thing that is stock in the engine bay is the head casting witch had been treated with a huge custom port and the block, other than that, well oyu will see for your self.
I have some pictures that I wana post but dont know how so Im waiting for my friend to do it ill try to post them on friday since my buddy is coming over I give him an easy task. Dont wana be a shooter but Im estimating over 400hp at 20 psi.
08-11-2001, 10:58 PM
I see your point, but as wonderful a design as the VR6 is from a technical standpoint, it's really hard to extract power from them without forced induction, which makes a NA car VERY unreliable. You could get the Euro 24v version, but that's even more ridiculously expensive, and even the 12v version is by no means cheap(example: Schrick cam set = $895), and I'm almost positive you'd have to fabricate a mounting system, not to mention the difference in clutch size(I'm not sure about this point, the VR6 has a 228mm clutch, I don't know what the Ur has). As far as the fuel injection goes, Digifant is a VW name for Motronic(basically the same system), but the 8v 4 cylinders are the only motors VW used it on, the VR6 was bona fide Bosch. If you get a complete motor(manifolds and whatnot), you'll also have the drive-by-wire throttle to contend with on '96 and later cars. I'm not knocking the VR6, I think it's a great motor, but I wouldn't recommend it for a race car.
08-12-2001, 05:17 AM
08-14-2001, 03:34 PM
There's a few other that escape me at the moment.
09-09-2001, 11:13 PM
I used to drive a GTI VR6. It was a great car, supercharged it put out about 250 Hp, but that is pretty much the ceiling of power output unless you want to lay down over $6,000 for the 300 Hp, or above, neighborhood. Sure...anything is possible, but is it a good idea?
If I remember, some "torque" goon was around here somewhere sticking a Chevy 350 in a 4000q. Not my idea of a cool Audi (step on the brakes too hard, and the thing would probably fall on its front bumper : ) ) Getting more low-end torque out of a smaller displacment turbo engine is as simple as tuning it properly. If your motor is too peaky, your turbo is improperly sized for your taste. You may have to sacrifice some top-end. But if you want to cruise in fifth gear at 30 mph, it's your only option.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but the 4th place Le Mans VW car was running a 1.8t motor, not a VR6. To the best of my knowledge VW Motorsport (Racing, or whatever they're called this week) has never campaigned a VR6 motor. They are, were, intended for street applications. Cooling problems, and lack of revving ability make them unsuitable for all-out race applications.
Of course, if you are looking for an interesting swap. You could the 4 cyl route. Ron Wood (VW Specialties) dominated the California Rally Series for a while in an Urquattro with a 2.0 16V turbo. Improved weight distribution, and more room under the hood.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot. There is some guy in the Netherlands (I think) who has a VW Quantum wagon with a VR6 turbo. The thing was real fast. I think it was running in the 12s. There is a video floating around the B-chassis forums at VWVortex.
09-10-2001, 10:19 AM
Oh, and a few more things.
VR6 motors do not use Digifant management, they use Bosch electronics. Digifant was only used in the US market from 89 through 92, because it is complete garbage. Digifant 8Vs have a terrible history of repair problems, and are completely unreliable. One day they work, the next the don't, and so forth.
From what I know, the G60 equipped cars had a better version, but the rest were unfortunate byproducts of VW's unwillingness to equip their cars with Bosch electronics.
VW hot rod parts are generally less expensive than Audi parts, but that does not necessarily apply to the VR6 motor. Keep in mind that the factory only released 2.8 motors here. The only other option that was factory built was the 2.9L from the euro Corrado. 3.2l were only built in small quantities for the RSi Beetle (not exactly a production model).
You could buy a used 3.1 conversion from someone domestically, but don't expect much more than 250 Hp unless some other serious mods have been done.