For those interested, I visited a friend today who had recently purchased a 99 VW Passat 2.8 30V, 5 speed. His car has about 1500 miles on the odometer so we figured it was sufficiently broken-in to give us realistic performance figures. His car lacked most of the power options so weight wise it was about as minimal as you could get. I have a 99 A4 2.8 30V QMS with a Wetterauer chip, Ramair filter and Ronal R-28s.

We both drove side by side at 20-mph in 2nd gear and floored the accelerator at the same time. We performed this test several times and switched cars as well. The results...

For the first 2 seconds, (until about 4,000 rpm) the Passat seems to take a slight 1/2 length lead. For the next second or so the cars are dead even. However, from about 5,500 RPM through to redline, the A4 rocketed out ahead by almost a full car-length (rear bumper on the A4 to front bumper on the Passat). At first I thought he was short shifting or at least was reaching redline much sooner but when I drove the Passat I noticed the same thing happen as he shot out ahead of me. I'm curious if the chip accounts for the extra top end power or if it's just different gear ratios.

On the last run, we continued the acceleration in 3rd gear up to maybe 80-mph. It seemed like the A4 was continuing it's lead but I don't know by how much. At that point the end of the parking lot was coming up and there seemed to be about a full car length in between us. I honestly don't know until what point he was pushing it so the results of 3rd gear may be off.

Anyway, I really liked the Passat. Driving them both back to back, you can really tell where the quattro adds the extra weight and drag, especially in the lower range of the power band. Indeed, even in seat of the pants driving, the Passat felt much lighter and quicker from 2-4K RPM range but in all out acceleration there was no doubt that the A4 was taking the lead. Handling wise, I don't even think I need to say.

I think we're going to try this again though after he has a few more miles on the car. I had figured the Passat would be at least as fast or maybe even quicker so perhaps the engine needs to loosen up a bit more.

Your results may vary. :)

Best,
Jeff J

You eliminated the Quattro advantage with the rolling start which was nice.

The Quattro may be heavier - but check the door stickers - I think the Passat is also quite a heavy car due to it's extra interior space, etc.

Perhaps the transversaly (sp?) mounted engine causes it to lose some power as well - the Audi salesmen are always spouting on about how a longitudinaly mounted engine is so much better (I'm skeptical tho).

Thanks!

Gordon Martin
98.5 2.8QMS (Santorin Blue)

I have the AMS chip in my 30v. While it per se is nothing to write home about (except the higher redline, 6900 rpm or 100mph in 3rd), it definitely has changed the behavior in higher revs. I think that it pulls stronger between 2k-4k, too, but up high, it's pretty nice.

Still, nothing to write home about =)

- Stan

You say that a rolling start was nice because the quattro would have an advantage. Now I assume a dry pavement; while I am not an expert with drag racing (I actually always lose =)), I find it extremely hard to get the Quattro off the line. There is no way to break traction, and I either drop the clutch too fast or smoke it. Again, I need to practice (or better, don't, since there is hardly any use for this - it just wears the equipment), but would the average driver really do better with a quattro off the line that with a Passat? Dry pavement understood.

- Stan
98.5 30vqmsx AMS

We CAN'T break traction when we drop the clutch - all that damn power gets delivered right to the road surface. If we have a perfect launch where we don't stall the engine and just let the clutch out just so we get moving real quick. If the Passat tries to execute the exact same rev/clutch release they would surely end up spinning those front wheels and wasting all of that power.

The objective is not to break the tires loose - that is inefficient. By having both cars use a rolling start, neither of them would be able to break the wheels loose and full power - and therefore the Quattro has no positive effect on the performance.

You were wondering if an everyday driver would benefit - I think the definate answer is - YES. It is very easy for a daily driver to break the wheels loose in almost any FWD (I even did it in my Tercel) - almost no AWD owners can chirp the wheels - the AWD would be ahead of the FWD at this point...

Gordon Martin
98.5 2.8QMS (Santorin Blue)

that you could notice it quite clearly when putting the power down in first or second--especially in a turn. It was a bit unsettling until I realized what it was. That alone makes the quattro option worth the extra weight.

I really would have liked to have done a 50-80 mph rolling test in 5th gear as well but there was just no place near to where he lives that such a thing would be possible during the middle of the day on the weekend.

best,
Jeff J

We had five cars running together 3 audi and 2 B5 passats. All 1.8t. All with different hop ups with the exceptions of an A4q running stock. When we accelerated from 85 all the way up to 130 the stock A4 stayed up with the pack, not lossing or gaining. He was not drafting. Why did he stay with me in my A4 1.8tfwd (with a K04) and the rest? Any ideas? I think that the turbo only helps out until aerodynamics take over.

It's hard to imagine that a stock 1.8t could keep up with a K04 and basically because aerodynamically speaking your cars should be equal. If he was driving a much more aerodynamic car with significantly different gearing it would make sense. The faster you go, the more drag your car generates and the power HP you need to maintain the same speed or accelerate.

So while aerodynamics do play a big role, HP is equally important.

You got me.

with his former 1.8T wett chipped. Now he can do it better with the S4 :-)