have an '87 5000tq in good shape that the previous owner tried putting a clutch in.. Everything was replaced acccording to receipts I have from Blau w/ factory parts. Problem is that the cluch slips as soon as the engine comes into boost. The clutch pedal sits about 10mm lower than the brake when according to the Bentley it should be higher by 10mm. Poked around under the dash and it appears that the slip / pedal alignment is not caused by misadjustment. there is some freeplay at the top of the pedal's travel. Owner reported disconnecting the slave, getting the car rolling and still reported slip which combined with the pedal position suggests that something is hanging up inside the bellhousing. I've heard conflicting rumors that there was a diff't clutch used in the non-turbo cars that may have less holding power - possibly the wrong parts were installed? The car was chipped to 1.8bar but is now running a stock processor and slips badly as soon as the boost gauge shows 1 bar +.
If anyone has had a similar problem or has any suggestions, I'd appreciate hearing your input.
Also, is the 20v clutch a direct bolt on upgrade? I'm looking for increased holding power to cover future upgrades to ~300 hp +.
08-04-2001, 08:05 PM
A slipping clutch has a very 'distinctive' smell.
Need to know a couple of things-
1. Does the clutch pedal feel progressive, or is it binding in any way?
2. Is/are the clutch master cylinder and the slave cylinder original, or have they been replaced? If replaced, when?
3. Did he use a Sachs clutch kit, or did he 'piece part' it together (possibly mismatching parts)
4. When he did the clutch job, did he do a side by side comparison of the replacement part matching the old part?
My gut says he either put in a non turbo clutch disc, or fubared it up on re-assembly.
Let us know.
08-05-2001, 08:11 AM
I know the smell you are referring to but haven't noticed much of it.. then again, I've been trying to drive around the problem. The pedal feel itself is good - smooth throughout its range of (albeit somehow limited) motion.
According to receipts I was given with the car, the master cyl, slave cyl, TOB, sachs disk & plate, sleeve, inp. shft bearing, and inp. shft seal are all new. I had this discussion with the previous owner and he indicated that he was given conflicting reports as to whether or not there is a difference in 5k turbo vs. 5k non-turbo clutches. Either way, the receipt says this is the clutch for a 82-95 4kcpeq or 85-88 5ktq. I have the old parts with the car so perhaps a bit of exporatory surgury is in order. Do you know for certain if there is a 5k non-turbo disk or pp?
What has your experience with the holding power of various Audi clutches been? I understand they last (nearly) forever but I need something that will withstand occasional drag racing. I've heard the 20v bolts up for a good upgrade.
08-05-2001, 04:35 PM
Okay, after perusing the catalog at www.thepartsconnection.com, there are a couple of different clutch part numbers. Bear in mind that these are the _disc_ p/n's.
First, you need to be sure of what engine series you have. 87 and 88 5kcstq's came with the MC series engine, and earlier 5kcstq's came with the KZ series engine. To check, pop the trunk and look up underneath the trunk lid. There is a small sticker from the factory that says the engine series that the car is equipped with. Another way to check is to pull the Michelin Man hose off the throttle body. A round inlet into the throttle body is a KZ, an oval inlet is an MC.
The clutch disc (according to the catalog) for an MC equipped 1986 through 1988 5kcstq is p/n 035-141-033G. This is a 240mm disc, and this p/n was also used on 84-88 5k Turbos, as well as the 82-87 Coupe Quattro (aka the UrQ, which is German for 'original Quattro'). UrQs were only available in the states from 82-85.
There was also a 228mm clutch disc with p/n 035-141-033 which was used in the 78-79 5k, the 85-87 5k with the KZ engine (depending on your VIN), the 85-87 4k Quattro and the 85-87 Coupe GT.
There was also a 228mm disc with p/n 069-141-033D that was used in the 87-88 5k Quattro (non Turbo version).
Look at your invoice and see if the p/n is listed. If the part number(s) is/are correct, there are a couple of different things that may be causing your slippage:
- improper assembly
- contamination of the clutch disc (oily hands all over it on re-assembly, or the rear main seal leaking oil all over it)
- parts mismatch (he ordered one thing, and they shipped another)
- new part failure (it happens sometimes)
I would check the p/n that is likely engraved into the original clutch disc and match it to the one on the invoice.
Good luck, and let us know what you find out.
08-05-2001, 05:00 PM
Thanks for the info.. car is an MC and all p/n's correspond w/ the receipts. Guess it is time to take it apart and make certain. The other thought I had is that perhaps the flywheel was re-surfaced below the limit.
09-15-2001, 10:01 PM
Finally pulled the clutch out last night.. Discovered a lunched pilot bearing. Evidence apparent of bits passing through the clutch but didn't see anything that would cause it to hang up. Will take a closer look Monday, particularly behind the TOB. Some notables, the fingers on the pressure plate (same as old one)are a pretty shade of blue, some heat marks visible in flywheel, disk looks passable (disk / pp. are ~ 5k mi old).
"New" disk looks essentially identical to the previous take out I was given w/ the car, p/n's don't match exactly however... old disk is an "035 141 033G" as expected w/ "20.1861 711 003" also visible on it, take out disk is missing the proper part number and only shows "1861 711 033".. what exactly is this number and what significance does the second to last digit have?
I'm a bit uncertain of how I wish to proceed at this point. Upgrading to a complete 20v clutch would be nice but expensive.. I'm half tempted to put it back together as-is w/ just a new pilot bearing and tob sleeve (it was a bit chewed up too) to see if it will hold. I guess I don't put too high a value on my time in this case as pulling the trans out isn't a major undertaking w/ a helper and hoist.
any suggestions? anyone have a reasonably priced 20v flywheel for sale?