I have felt my quattro getting a bit loose in tight corners over the last month or so - a 96 A4 2.8 quattro. It only has 23,000 miles or so but tires were getting a bit slick though still lots of tread left. I noticed it in the rain where all 4 would come loose with a little side motion if pushed in tight corners.

Well last night (completely dry road) I was coming around a hair-pin turn and the front end started pushing real bad, then I think the tire may have separated from the rim because real quickly I was going sideways down the road for about 50 feet then backwards and off the left side. Ended up hitting my drivers side rear door into a telephone pole and the right front tire off the rim.

I'm pissed so much because I had felt the car getting a bit loose over the last month and it NEVER was like that before. I thought the tires were still OK but I guess even at that low mileage they lose significant traction.

Anyway, I'm clearly gonna get a new set of tires all around and was hoping someone could recommend an all-season tire that has good dry performance but also does ok in the snow (we get some here). Price is not a concern - learned my lesson and next time will get new tires sooner :(

Was quite an experience, btw, going dead on sideways down a two lane road. Hope not to repeat it again anytime soon.... Tried to convince my wife that this was a reason to get a new S4 but she didn't buy it, so to the body shop we go.

Also, planning on using tirerack.com unless someone would recommend elsewhere.

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Sorry to hear about your wreck. Something that I've learned though is that the driver can compensate for TREMENDOUS handling deficencies, whether a sudden change or "built-into" the car. While the tires may be to blame for this one, if you haven't been to a driver's school yet, I seriously suggest you go. You may have been able to recover or lessen the damage with a few instructed driver's schools/auto-x's under your belt. If you've been going, keep going!

Since you're already willing to spend a good chunk for tires, you really should go to dedicated summers and dedicated winters. Anything else is a compromise. Yokohama AVS Sports on your factory wheels and Michelin Pilot Alpins on cheap steels from tirerack would be a good solution, IMO. Price it. You may be surprised. Talk to Eddie @ tirerack.

Warren

Never been to a school, always wanted to. I think I'm an above average driver, but I'd love to improve my skills. Any suggestions as to affordable courses?

I'm thinking about the different summer/winter wheels idea, but honestly I can't bear to drive around for 1/4 of the year with ugly looking steel wheels on my car :(

Is this the Pilot XGT-Z4 or the XGT-Z4 - looked at both on tirerack and the pilot version looks better to me looking at the tread design.

Have you driven this tire? How does it compare to the Eagle RS-A that came stock (at least with mine). I couldn't complain about them until recently when I guess the rubber got hard and lost traction compared to new.

Did you by any chance lift off the throttle and/or hit the brakes just beforeyou went into a spin? This is called throttle lift oversteer and is one of Quattro's little quirks. The normal reaction is to try to slow down. However, if you lift off the throttle and/or hit the brakes, this shifts the weight to the front tires, all of a sudden the get their grip back, at the same time weight is shifted off of the rears resulting in less grip and allowing them to break free. The solution...brake before the corner (not always possible), unwind the steering wheel a little to take the turn a bit wider if possible, and back off the throttle a little (and do it slowly). Get to a drivers ed event or autox and get a feel for how the car handles at the limit (besides they're fun).

Also, how were your tire pressures? I had been remiss and hadn't checked mine in almost a month, found last week that they were several pounds low (due to the recent temp change here). Tire pressure will also impact your car's handling.

As for tires, I'm a fan of the Dunlop SP4000's, the new SP5000's look pretty good too. Of course dedicated summer and winter tires will afford you better wet and dry (summer) and better snow (winter) than all seasons.

Regards,
Rodney

'99 A4 1.8tqms

PS I take it you were uninjured, glad you're ok.

I have the H4 version and they are great. Apparently the Z4s are even better. I am happy with the H version and they were $100 cheaper per tire (roughly).

Jon
'96 A4qs

I heard that Pirelli P7000SS is extremely noisy....what about the Michelins?

I really think something else "may" be going on with your car. I have a 97 2.8QM with 48K miles and I have never got into trouble on a dry road with my quattro (not counting one track experience). If I were you I would get a set of P7000SS tires from Tirerack or Ronal (depending on price and where you live). I would also consider going to one of the many Quattro club Driving and Safety Seminars that should be in your area. These events help you understand the dynamics of your car, your current skill level, and help you refine your skills in a safe environment. BTW, did you have the Continental H95 Conti-tourings or the Goodyear RSA tires? Both seem to be marginal at best.

I would also have your dealer or non-dealer mechanic check out your car thoroughly.

If you call Tirerack...ask for eddie at ext 369.

Steve S.
97 2.8QM

Sorry to hear about the crash but this sounds extreme, how fast were you going?

I have my original Goodyears at 27k and while they are looser than new, I have not come close to anything you describe even on wet roads. It's hard to get the car loose on a dry road.

Beware - I had noticed only some minor loose feelings over the last month (the car had been like it was glued to the road before that) and then boom it was all over.

I was going probably 45-50 around a curve that I have driven that fast many times before. Had a controlled slide in the past at most, this time all hell just broke loose :( Luckily there was nobody in oncoming traffic.

Anyway, take a feel of your tread - I don't know if it's my imagination or not but even though I've only put 23K on my tires and there is about double the wear bar length left the tire does feel "harder" than I remember and perhaps just the time has caused it to harden and loose traction. But in the end the change in wet traction should have warned me. Next time I'm changing tires sooner.

I didn't hit the brakes (until I was off the road headed towards the telephone pole) but did come off the throttle as I pushed off into the right hand side of the road. I had taken this turn at this speed many times before so I was very surprised to say the least that I was going off the road. Again, my experience in the past has been a very controlled slide develops with this car when pushed hard in a corner. This time it was all of a sudden going way wide and as there are trees about 5 feet off the side on that side of the road I wasn't pleased about that one bit.

Went back and looked at the skid marks for some education :( Looks like the front outside tire went about 6 inches into the grass on the side of the road and then just as it came back onto the pavement it went sideways. A nice smooth track, so I don't think I oversteered. Just can't figure it out except again I think the tire came off the rim perhaps from too much lateral force.

Tires were the original RS-A goodyear eagles.

When you look at a tire within a given type and you compare H vs. V. vs. Z ratings. Do these ratings have -anything- to do with anything other than sustained speed driving? That is, do they have different compounds giving the Z tire better traction or anything like that or is it just the ability to drive high speeds for sustained times?

The fastest I've ever driven my audi for any length of time was about 110mph, and I rarely get about 90 anymore so if there is no difference I'll save the money myself, but if there is I'd rather spend to get a quality tire.

While the RS-A's may not be sticky tires, they certainly shouldn't unmount from the rim. You should see some of the moves that people pull at auto-x's. No tires get unmounted though, and there is some serious plowing going on.

The tire should either roll over or just slide depending on the situation. Check in the "racing" section for some local drivers events.

Warren

Now and then we have these tire tests over here in Germany, comparing handling qualities of the same tire with H, V or Z rating. In all the tests I remember, the "slower" (="H") tires were better in terms of handling and grip.

The softer the tire is (and the better the traction), the warmer it becomes. If you want to produce a tire with a v-rating you need a firmer rubber compared a h-rating tire. Therefore, you shouldn't buy a tire with a higher rating than the one you actually need.
G.

Recently I went to a driving school, unsurprised to hear that 80% of
american drivers think they are 'excellent' drivers. I think I'm ok but
even one day of class showed me how much there is to learn and
better still, practice.

Glad you are ok. Try Skip Barber or the like soon ;)

Well when all was said and done the tire was off the rim. Can't say how it happened, but it was.

Had the h4 versions on my Mercedes Sport. Previously had Pirellis. The Michelins totally transformed the handling of the car. They were quieter, and the handling improved 100%. I have tried almost every tire over the years and have not found a better overall tire than Michelin. ( Although I am very impressed with the Dunlop 8000e's on my new A4 so far)