Pulled up to a toll booth today with a VW Golf GTI one booth over... I think I exited the toll booth about a half second before him... I wasn't really expecting to race, but I'd say I was probably going about 75% of max acceleration... I'm not sure if the guy in the GTI was trying to race either, but he definitely was accelerating hard... anyways, with a bad shift into second (and shifting at around 4500), the GTI was about a car length and a half ahead of me by the time we hit around 50... then, I think he noticed a cop on the other side of the highway and probably stopped accelerating hard... in any event, was just wondering whether a chipped A4 1.8TQ should be able to beat a GTI off the line or would it be close? I'm not sure if the GTI was a VR6 (or are all GTI's VR6's?)

But you should have had him. Unless your chipped car is a .8 bar chip, it really isn't a close run throught the gears. The 1-bar 1.8t's will walk a VR6, I have been been behind both steering wheels of that match-up. Both in a strong chipped a3 VR6 GTI and a strong chipped 1.8t Passat. Not much of a debate. Gimme the turbo 4.

jb

What generally are 0-60 times for a 1.0Bar A41.8TQ? I thought most people say it's low 7's? Seems like the VR6 GTI's 0-60 times are listed as high 6's... hmmm...

absolute 0-60 times dont really matter all that much in the real world...in my 1.8T qms w/apr 1.0 bar i was nose to nose all the way to 80 with a 328i, and i didnt even realize at the stoplight that the guy wanted to have some fun...(but he wasnt too pleased with the outcome...)
since then i have gotten the neuspeed/borla exhaust installed, and can now make moves once going that some much more expensive cars cant really do better...but this all has to do with the driver and how the specific situation arises. knowing your car and how to maximize its performance, you're able to do things that others drivers just dont understand... in short, what i'm trying to say is that that bitch ass vr6 couldnt have taken u had u known he wanted to race... ;-)
(wow, real logic at work here, huh? i dont think i've managed to ramble so well in a while...god i love this board!!!)
oh, and no, i am not by any means trying to say i'm god of driving, cuz i have a helluva lot to learn yet...this is all just my general opinion mixed with personal experience....

99.5Turbod
1.8T qms, apr 1bar, neuspeed exhaust, etc.....

and my opinion is my A4 wouldn't have a farts chance in a whirlwind of catching that GTI. I'm not complaining about the A4 but the facts are the GTI weighs about 800-900 lbs less. The A4 is just a different animal and I'll take it hands down over my old GTI as the GTI was scary as hell on anything but clean dry pavement at virtually any speed and you know the story on Quattros.
P

I just sold my VR6 Jetta, and have driven several new A4 Golf VR6's and they are very fast. You can basically burn the tires off in the first two gears in the new GTI. The new VR6 has a lot of torque (181 lb-ft or so), and in the first two gears you can rip. I have a 99 1.8T Q w/TAP I chip, and the VR6 is faster off the line. Another advantage the VW has is it doesn't have to push another 2500 lbs around of Quattro drivetrain etc.

Don't underestimate the new VR6 cars, with the right driver in the VW you can be embarrassed in your Audi.

I only ask this beacuse the weights the GTI guys seem to be producing are ridiculous. Maybe you have more gravity where you live.

The A3 GTI VR6 is about 2700 pounds, roughly. The newer A4 GTI VR6 is about 150 pounds heavier, granted with a stronger motor than the previous models. Add another couple of hunderd pounds if you choose the Jetta, too.

The A4tq is about 3200 pounds. Simple math is easy, and that is ~350-500 pounds difference. I have driven all 3 of these cars in question, I have raced with the others, and I can tell you for a fact, that I will take the 1.8tq Audi without blinking in a match race. Anyone with a GTI interested? ;) On a road course is a different story, though. They are all very even. Its a toss up.

I own both an A4 and a GTI, and this is about as close to a good comparison as it gets. The VR6 is a fantastic motor, but cannot run with the chipped turbo.

Now, next spring when the 1.8t comes in the Golf and the Jetta... sign me up.

...I'll be a mile down the road in my quattro. B-bye!

CraigB 8^)

depending on which car your driving, not the 800-900 I claimed (temporary gravity I guess). I am intrugued by your comparison though since you own them both. I agree with the guy who says you'll be burning off the front tires in 1st & 2nd something you won't do in a quattro and for that reason you'd be way ahead of the VR6 before he could get a hold on something. Perhaps that 140lb reduction in weight between your 1.8T and my 2.8 30V makes a lot of difference but if thats true, what about the 500+lb difference between the 2700+lb GTI and the best case 3200+lb A4 (we are talking Quattro right, if not all bets are off). Anyhow I respect your educated opinion but I'd have to see it to believe it. And I wouldn't take on a VR6 unless it was raining or snowing as my car is about 800lbs heavier than my VR6 was and the extra 20hp just doesn't move that 800 lbs. Maybe my VR6 was unusually strong or my 2.8 unusually weak but thats the way it seems to me. Guess you don't have to worry about that though since you own them both.

dood, I've driven both cars back to back, my A4 1.8T with a .8 bar chip will lose out to a new Golf GTI, so will yours unless you've heavily modified it. Don't believe me, go race one.

It should be no big deal to beat a stock VR6 off the line. Holding a big lead for very long is another thing.

CraigB

The question is a 1-bar chip, not the .8 bar (especially not that Neuspeed chip wannabe), that's good for an extra 20hp in a 1.8t. You wanna settle this?

Bring your little girly VR6 to Rt 66 Raceway just outside of Chicago this Wednesday evening for radial night at the dragstrip.

One to one, chipped Audi A4 1.8tq to a chipped GTI VR6. Bring it on, and bring the smug cubic inches attitude with ya, too. :)


Actually, seriously, anyone interested in going out there for some fun runs?

The fact is that the TAP .8 bar chip was the fastest chip 50-70 in the only documented chip shoot out to date (EC magazine May 1998) against three other 1.0 bar chips. Also of note is that the Autothority, a tuner with a good reputation and background, .8 bar makes comparable power to many 1.0 bar chips. The argument is that although the K03 is capable of about 1.0-1.2 bar of boost (maybe a little more), its peak efficiency is reached at .8 bar and going beyond that gains little without other improvements (ie. exhaust system). Personally, I'm going with a 1.0 bar, but look at the power output curves and boost characteristics. Most power curves fall back towards stock at higher rpm because the K03 can't flow enough air to maintain boost at higher rpm.

As for wether the A4 (chipped) is quicker than a VR6 GTI, who cares? They're both a blast to drive (I'll take the A4 any day, but that's my choice). Besides, they're power is close enough that it would probably come down to driver's skill. Out of curiosity, can the GTI break 60 in second? That would be a decided advantage. Anyway, if you want to drag race or be a stoplight racer you've got the wrong car.

Regards,
Rodney

'99 A4 1.8tqms

entee

I doubt that you have because you'd not make such broad statments about performance if you had. The Neuspeed 0.8 Bar chip is quite good, I think it holds its own pretty well against the other 0.8 Bar offerings. Try it out...then comment on its performance, doing things the other way around makes you the wannabe.

Regards,

James R.

99 1.8TMS (Neuspeed K04, K&N Filter, Remus Exhaust, Neuspeed Sport Springs, Neuspeed Front Anti Sway, Bilstein Sport Shocks, Brembo Rotors, Mintex Red Box, Ronal R28's 17", Euro Corners, Clear Sides, Full Tint...and some other stuff I probably forgot)

...On both the KO3 and the pitiful KO4 kit. Their overall fuel maps as are horrendous compared to Garrett, APR, MTM and Wetterauer's chips. I wouldn't have made that comment if I hadn't. I have also driven Garrett, APR and Wetterauer 1-bar chips, as well. Where is Neuspeed's 1-bar chip?

Original point at hand, a Neuspeed .8 bar chipped 1.8t A4 will have a real tough time keeping up with any year VR6, chipped or not.


jb

I've owned the APR box and frankly it's a piece of ****. They build those things on old M boxes...using the code that is native to that box. Neuspeed on the otherhand actually keep up with the Audi D0 revisions. My car when new was a P type box with Rev D04 code on it... later I changed to a Rev D07 as the code base and the car runs much better now.

Interestingly the complaints I had about the APR box were that if pinged like a mofo and was extremely difficult to start in the morning...lest do I find out that D07 was actually released by Audi to address these very types of issues...knock sensing maps have been updated and start up (richer) fuel maps had been modified too. Car runs like a champ now...calling the K04 setup pitiful is ridiculous...if you love Wett so much buy one of their K04 kits and see how you like it :) the thing sucks as many have pointed out. Oettinger makes a kit based on the K04 and I would consider them a very competent tuner...actually I'd like to see how their software runs on my car...but they don't offer OBDII software last time I checked.

As for the fuel maps...do you have them I'd like to know what you mean by horrendous. I've been told the tip in throttle map the APR setup is ridiculous...as a result the fuel efficiency when using the cruise control and the like is pitiful. My K04 kit gets me about 27 MPG on average mixed city and highway..and I drive aggressively.

Regards,

James R.

99 1.8TMS (Neuspeed K04, K&N Filter, Remus Exhaust, Neuspeed Sport Springs, Neuspeed Front Anti Sway, Bilstein Sport Shocks, Brembo Rotors, Mintex Red Box, Ronal R28's 17", Euro Corners, Clear Sides, Full Tint...and some other stuff I probably forgot)