The Euro Ekta parts CD show a 4 piston option for front brakes on a 1995 S6. In Europe, on the parts list they only show a single piston front brake and these 4 piston floating calipers with the 314mmX30mm front rotors.
Now it does show a different strut for the floating calipers.
I cross checked and these are the same brakes that came on the early Euro A8s.
Now here in the states the front brakes were all G60 dual piston fronts on the Urs6.
Question. Has anyone tried these front brakes and struts on there cars here in the USA?
Maybe they are the same as the porsche brakes used with the 314 rotors some of the aftermarket companys use?
02-17-2003, 06:49 AM
I just wonder why you would go this route when brake upgrades that use your current strut towers are available here in the US. I mean, you would be in it for struts towers, brake calipers, wheel bearings and hubs possibly!
Do you think there is some significant gain in doing this?
93urs4 US strut towers and plenty of brakes
02-17-2003, 07:40 AM
It used a caliper very similar to the newS4, just on the other side of the rotor... I think they were 323x30
02-17-2003, 10:01 AM
Here is my thinking. VW/Audi have a tendency to do a lot of off the shelf pulling of parts for different cars. Such as the same G60 brakes on the coupe as on the UrS4-6. Maybe these floating calipers are very similiar to the Porsche brakes used in all the aftermarket kits.
If the G60s and the Audi floating calipers bolt up to the UrS4-6 strut, they may bolt up to the Coupe strut. Possible?
Then you would have all Audi parts, rotor, caliper, brake line(no need for special SS lines, splash shield etc.
I am planning on upgrading my brakes anyway. I am going to have the hubs changed to S2 hubs also. Just not enough choice as far as wheels go with the 4X108.
Just a thought. I am exploring all avenues.
02-17-2003, 10:32 AM
gotcha... Good luck with the project..
02-17-2003, 09:22 PM
02-17-2003, 09:23 PM
02-18-2003, 12:42 PM
but I don't own it anymore... Rich Sierra has it in South Bend, Indy. He contacted me not to long ago confirming the upgrades...
02-18-2003, 10:23 PM
One word: BIRA (okay four words: Brake Improvement Research Association). This is based on improving braking using Porsche/Brembo monobloc 4 piston calipers and various Audi (e.g. US A8, Euro A8 or Euro S8) rotors, the original UrS4 strut and hub and a "special" bracket (only available to members). Membership costs $20 and you have to sign a waiver. There is one company that packages all this up without the membership (Jimmy? you want to help here?)
Search on Google for BIRA.
02-20-2003, 05:18 AM
<center><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/4916/__hr_p3161043.jpg"></center><p>I see what you are getting at, but as others have said, the alternate brakes that you are asking about a) require a strut change (a strut that has NOTHING to do with a CQ), b) are therefore expensive, and c) are heavy as boat anchors.
In fact, Hoppen still sells this complete setup for the UrS4/S6:
Yikes! Expensive. And no, the calipers are nowhere near the quality of the Porsche calipers. That's not to say that they don't work well, but it's a different ballgame. Also (assuming that they even fit), you might find an issue with sourcing pads for such rare calipers, especially if you are interested in experimenting with track compounds, etc. You won't have this problem with Porsche calipers.
Personally, I think you are on the right track with your plan to upgrade to S2 hubs and then go with one of the many brake upgrades that are readily available. BIRA has a System 2 that will fit your car, once you go to S2 hubs. This is what Brandon Hull runs on his e//S2. On my e//S2, I switched to S2 hubs and run the 323 x 30 Euro-S8 rotor and 993tt "Big Reds" (photo). I'm very happy. Within the next couple of months, I will be experimenting with a rear brake upgrade, and I will be going to a BIRA System 6 (Porsche 322mm two-piece rotor) up front. I'll document and post when that happens. Of course, I'm not sure why I need big brakes on a car that doesn't even RUN! Another case of misplaced priorities. I guess Dad was right.
Anyway, join BIRA and talk about brakes until your brains fall out. It's fun. BTW, as a guy who appreciates the "cross-platform factory parts sharing program" (i.e., my potential rear brake upgrade is from an optional rear brake setup from the 91' 200 Avant), I want to compliment you on your creative thinking. The more I dig, the more I discover the treasures that can be found in the Audi factory parts bin.
02-20-2003, 07:13 AM
Thats the beauty of what we're all doing. In the world of car tunning and aftermarket upgrades, I don't think there is another car brand that can compare with what we have here in terms of the majority of the parts we deal with when upgrading are actually factory parts. I love it...
02-20-2003, 11:25 AM
The sad fact is that yes: you can use so many factory parts to upgrade your audi. But for the most part, your on your own to understand it.
Or the sad fact is that other's don't want to share their knowledge.
I appreciate site's like Jimmy pribbles.( but at the same point, I like the idea of spending a little less than going the full RS2 spec, but at the same point beyond rs2 spec just 10vtuned). I will most likely be building a 10v turbo motor based on my 7A block with eiter different pistons and rods and stock crank. or I will be swapping to 2.5L eurospec stroker kit 8.5:1. The trick is I will be using a 3b 20v engine harness.
And the great thing is, later down the road If I feel the 10v head is just not cutting it. I will switch to 20v, head, intake, manifold, exhaust manifold etc.. and still have a nice built bottom end knowing it can take over 400hp..
But I plan on using as much 20v,S,rs2,bosch, porsche parts as possible.
280hp... with 20v=smile on ones face, and hole in one's young pocket.
280hp... with 10v= smile on ones face and money to put else where.
Oh yah the best part. If I do this correctly, AAN ecu for normal driving. have an extra ecu, for Rs2 maps for track and for fun. And there you go, two maps.. and I didn't go and buy stand alone engine management. Which i just remind myself of the giac software:
With this setup I probably do 3b,AAN, and Rs2 setups (.bin files are cool ;-)):
"The IBE Chipswitch Gen 2, now in the final stages of development, can hold four to five program files and like the first IBE, is activated by a remote control that fits in an extremely high quality keyfob. There are five buttons on the remote, one for each program and/or one kill switch. To our knowledge, GIAC is the first to successfully implement this remote control technology into multiple ECU/DME programs.
IBE Gen 2, maintains all the options that were available on the original IBE, however we have made some very exciting improvments, which include but are not limited to, smaller package dimensions, more options for future upgradeablility, and most importantly, a dramatically greater range.
We intend to take good care of our many loyal customers by offering them full trade in value on the GIAC chip/socket they have been using. We will also be offering an even exchange for those that trade in there first generation IBE"<ul><li><a href="http://www.giacusa.com/">http://www.giacusa.com/</a</li></ul>
02-20-2003, 02:42 PM
But I'd imagine that you can get a whole 3B motor and install it for less than tearing your 7A apart, installing all new components, putting a 10v head on it and hoping it all works. And then buying mutliple ECU's and multiple software designs.
To get to approximately 280hp on a 3B or AAN is as simple as a $695 chip from various reliable sources and under an hour of your time. If you're smart and are capable of doing most of the work yourself and buy a whole wrecked donor car, I'd think you could possibly do an engine transplant like this for under $6k before you even sell some of the leftover parts off. Shoot, the chances are that the wrecked donor already has some tuner parts or a chip on it. If you end up paying someone else for all of the parts and install, it still wouldn't be that much more to just drop in a well-engineered 20v turbo motor to begin with instead of rebuilding your existing 210v/10v hybrid and hanging a turbo on it...
Just my $0.02
02-20-2003, 03:10 PM
justin that is is running a motronic 10v engine with Aby harness.
I have been playing email tag with him about this subject. We will see, I am tempted to install a 3b harness because its easier to source. not sure yet.
I know tim valencia has also run 10vT with motronic, I actually have his # and have yet to call to talk to him about it.
the way I am looking at it is how much ponies you want: sure you can get 280hp with a chip from a 20vT and I can install it in my garage. But I know I will be gready and want more later down the road. alot more to be honest.
SO forget the 3b turbo, the injectors, the stock ecu maps, the maf, the exhaust manifold etc.. and what do you end up doing spending more money.. for more hp..
Instead I am just going to build a wild motor right from the start. Injectors 300CC+, porsche maf, k26 hybrid turbo etc..
I can get a 10v head, intake manifold, and all parts necessary for less than $100.
Exhaust manifold..I am still looking into this not sure possibly dialynx, but also possibly a header from EFI>
Fuel rail. Efi.
or another allternative.
Buying two ecu, isn't a bother to me, if I chose to run two. But I have a friend who can take the .bin files i have and program onto the chip so we will see.
RS2/s2 ecu's sell on the german ebay also thought.
I need to do a bit more research into this. but I have almost everything figured out.
And for the fun of it I think I can have 330+hp. preity cheap built motor, fresh realiable bottom end, fresh turbo. etc.
However just to through an odd ball into this I am still looking into a v8 3.6L or 4.2L swap.
02-20-2003, 05:29 PM
I have also checked out you web site and it is very informative. I have been on the Bira web site and that is very informative also.
I was just looking at part numbers to find maybe a little less expensive way to go. I compare the Euro part number and then try to find it on the USA parts list.
I did a little more looking at a lot of part numbers the other night. Unless I am way off base, the last six numbers of the part number are for the part itself, and the first three are for the model. Some of them have a suffix.
For instance, on the 5X112 S2 hubs for the Coupe.
All the hubs, front and rear, on a 1986-1988 5000TQ and 1987-1988 5000Q have the part number 447-407-615A. Now unless I am totally off base, with the last 6 numbers and matching suffix, these hubs match the S2 front 5X112 hubs.
For the rear, the Urquattro hubs (a little hard to find) number is 857-501-653. The rear hubs on a 1998+ A6Q have the part number 4B0-501-653. I should be able to use these on the rear of my coupe.
Now for an upgrade for the rear brakes, the A6 1997 and earlier used the same brakes as the coupe. The part numbers for the calipers and the carriers are the same. The parts list just show a reverse on the left and right. The rear rotors for the A6 have the same last six numbers as the Euro S2 Coupe.
Now without a change in strut numbers, except for the inserts, the Rear UrS6 bolt up to the same A6 strut. Now they should bolt up to a coupe. Since I have a wrecked S6 sitting in the garage. I will try this. The fronts are the same G60 girlings as the coupe. The only upgrade to the brakes on the UrS6 by audi was adding vented brakes to the rear.
Now for the front rotors for my hub conversion, the 7A coupe has a part number of 895-651-301B. The 89 200Q has the same last six numbers 447-615-301B with the exception of the 4X108 vs. 5X112.
I will probably go with a Bira system for the fronts. But will probably just do the hub conversion first. Maybe put on the UrS6 rears since I already have them. We will see what works and will keep informed. But don't expect it right away. Still parting out the S6 and remodeling a garage at the same time.
02-21-2003, 09:51 AM
<center><img src="http://www.audischrauber.de/Einbau/Bilder/P2010010_JPG.jpg"></center><p>Don't completely quote me on this but I do remember:
(2) 8a0 615 125a
(4) n 100 880 03
(4) n 100 436 02
<center><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/19850/00000002.3.jpg"></center><p>save even more money :-)
Going to have to get rotors first to check to see if its possible, there is alot more holes in the S8 rotors.
02-21-2003, 10:33 AM
02-21-2003, 10:45 AM
...and I described (and use) the same "factory" brake kit that you just described. The kit that you describe has been known and discussed at length on the S-Car list for years (I have had my kit since 1999). Perhaps you have had a different experience, but I have seen no shortage of information shared about these cars or their brakes, by Americans or otherwise.
As for BIRA, it's an association. It's through member participation that upgrade systems have been designed and discontinued. In fact, it was through one specific thread on the S-Car list that at least two BIRA designs were discontinued. I don't see much in the way of information exchange limitations in or out of that organization. I'm sorry if you have had a different experience. If you have unanswered questions, I will be happy to try and help.
02-21-2003, 11:04 AM
Anyways. I erased that cause I don't want my big mouth getting me in any more trouble ;-)