When are these chip programmers going to drop their prices to a realistic level?<br>Some Synonyms:<p>Wett - Way over priced<br>Hoppen - Way over priced<br>Tap - A little bit more realistic, but still high<br>Neuspeed - Price good, but too new to the business.<p>Folks, this is not rocket science. This chip is cheap and inexpensive and relatively easy to program. If they would drop to around 350 to the 400 range, it would be a definate bonus. I might even buy. But 700 bucks? Can you say "RipOff".<br>My PC with all the latest software cost around that.

Don't worry, with the way things are going...it won't be long before Microsoft starts programming ECUs for automotive manufacturers. Then, what Big Bill will do is buy out all the aftermarket chip reprogrammers/companies, and destory all their hard work. THEN, you would be willing to pay $1000+ for a gray market chip (by some underground hacker), just so that your car will run all the time! <br>Just my 2 cents, of course!<p>Cris<br>

for $700 (wett), less than 3% of the price of the<br>car, you add 25% more power & torque. (1.8T)<p>that's a pretty good deal, in my book.<p><p>it wouldn't surprise me if this chip costs less <br>than $5, time to burn it and test it maybe 30 <br>minutes. but this is simply the equivelent of<br>duplicating floppy disks, also very inexpensive.<p>plus, cheap or free software is designed<br>to sell hardware, or other more expensive<br>options to the software. the chip manufacturers<br>don't benefit from audi car sales when they<br>sell their product.<p>but are you considering the research cost?<br>ongoing development cost? support cost?<br>marketing cost? etc.<p>time for business 101

consider this. Lets be realistic, where else are you gonna get 40hp for $700? <p>Stop whining, someone with a 30V will kill for a 40hp gain for only $700.

Remember the old saying??"what ever the market will bear". If there are customers for something that seems overpriced then there will be a market..Like the over priced Beetles. Thank you for Neuspeed ---at least there is a choice.

On top of the $400 you feel is resonable for the 'chip', have you considered the following:<p>Unsoldering the old chip from ECU, and soldering in a socket or new chip. This is precision work since they use tiny surface mount chips. Bench fees for skilled tech's are around $100-150/hour.<br>In the case of Wett, they put your new chip and the old one on a carrier plug (maybe $20 for each plug). Add to that, the overnight return shipping. The risk that they might have to replace your $1400 ECU if they damage it, and their warranty in general...<p>I think I got my money's worth when I chipped... I went with Wett, but I know that TAP also gives you a lot of service and support for your money. I can't personally vouch for the others.<p>Regards,<br>Mikro 1.8TQM-Wett Yellow<p>

First off let me say that I am not a big fan of chip upgrades anyway.... regardless, I think the price is more than fair...<p>1) This is not some mass market product. Have you priced vertical market software recently? My company just paid $20,000 PER SEAT for some engineers to use a specific imaging software.<p>2) The value of the chip is not flash rom chip itself. That runs between $5-$50 depending on specifications and quantity they buy in.<p>3) The intrinsic value is in the effort, the intellectual property of the engineers and the technicains involved in the project and the cost model is simply (R&D+Implementation)/(No. of units sold + Profit). Yes, they are in it for the profit. This kind of work is not exactly done for humanitarian reasons. <p>4) The fact that you are complaining about the price is because you DO want this product. The market is willing to bear what they charge... else they would not be charging it. <br>

>but are you considering the research cost?<br>>ongoing development cost? support cost?<br>>marketing cost? etc.<br>><br>>time for business 101 <p>Business 101 says you design your products for your target price point and for your market space. Wett designed their chip intending to sell at $700 (priced to account for their business model + recovering sunk money in develpment) Nobody outside of Wett knows where the money went, perhaps it went towards consumer benefit such as better research and better support. Perhaps it went straight towards their pocketbook. So just because it costs more doesn't mean that it went to a better product. <p>Neuspeed designed their chip to sell much cheaper, but I doubt that they are really gaining on economies of scale in order to cut the costs by 1/6. So unless Neuspeed really cut corners on research, I would guess that the performance market is boosted up by perceived value by the consumers, who will pay for a lot more for what may or may not amount to snake oil.<p>Arguably, you may or may not get > $500 benefit from the Wett chip over the Neuspeed chip. That's what this message board is for, so that owners can compare notes without having to invest in both chips to get what they want.

Neuspeed has been in the aftermarket performance arena for around 20 years. Granted, Wett and TAP had their A4 chip before Neuspeed ... and from that standpoint you are technically correct. Nevertheless, speaking from personal experience dating back more than 15 years (with my 1982 VW Convertible Rabbit), Neuspeed has consistently put out quality products. From that standpoint, I didn't have to think twice about putting in a Neuspeed chip and being overly concerned that they were the newest chip on the market. As past posts should strongly indicate, the Neuspeed chip is the most bang for the buck you can get for the A4 at this point while maintaining reliability.<p>Good luck waiting for the other chips to come down in price. As long as there are willing buyers (and there obviously are), why should they lower their prices?

Okay, many new A4 owners may not know this, but about a year ago, Wetterauer was thinking of introducing the Beta version of their 1bar chip into the U.S.. The chip would allow you to mount a switch (in place of one of the blanks). If you want 1bar of boost, just push that button.... if you want to turn it off, just push the button again! I thought it was the greatest thing since aftermarket chips themselves! Anyway, after about 6 months (or so) of trouble free beta testing in one of their own U.S. spec A4s, the Check Engine light popped out of the blue! The problem was due to the OBDII in the US spec A4s. So, from that...they unfortunitely decided to scrape the plan to sell the Beta to the US customers. <br>It is that... the amount of time they spend testing before actually releasing to the customers that I like about Wetterauer. Worth the extra bucks! I most certainly think so.<br>BTW, I've been following Wetterauer's US depolyment way before I ordered my A4.<p>Cris<br>

You have got to be kidding.

Trying to achieve the same power increase in other make's engines (think Honda, BMW, etc) will cost you WAY more than the $200 to $700 we are faced with. I installed a Dinan chip in a 3-series at a cost of (if I remember correctly) almost $300, for a gain of 18 horsepower - and I thought that was cheap at the time. People with other cars spend thousands of dollars to realize a 25% gain in power. We've got it cheap.<br>

I've priced all chips for around $400-500 @ Streetwize Motorsports

Yes, an EPROM chip is cheap and programming it costs next to nothing, but knowing WHAT to program into it takes a lot of engineering development dollars that the company then has to amortize over the number of chips that they sell.<p>It's similar to what drives Intel nuts about some of the CPU clone makers. The cost of manufacturing a Pentium-II chip is low -- only a few dollars per chip. However, Intel spends 100's of man-years and many megabucks to do the up-front design, development, and testing. They can only get that money back by initially charging $700 or so for the latest, hottest chip. Some of the clone makers used to just reverse-engineer the Intel chips and then were able to manufacture and sell them a lot cheaper since they didn't have to pay off a big engineering investment. The same thing goes for many other R&D-based industries.<p> Doug G<br> 98 1.8TQM

Anyone with a 30v chip care to comment on their experiences? <p>Prices are about the same as the 1.8 chips, but as was pointed out, we only get +15hp. I think for 1/3 the hp gain it should be 1/3 the price! <p>But it probably had similar amounts of R&D to squeeze that bit out and people are willing to pay. Wonderful thing, this free market, capitalist economy! =)<p>Andrew<br>98 2.8qms

Consider chips for any other car - price is tipically under $300. I expect any chip to be properly tested and engineered. So the extra $400 is pure profit in Wett/Hoppen's pocket. <p>The price is justified by the enourmous power increase - think of it as Wett/Hoppen stealing from Audi... You would not pay $700 for a chip if the 1.8T came with 180, would you.

Or maybe sooner? But, as long as there is a level of irrational chip purchase decisions being made by those who have fallen for the belief that they must spend the most to receive the most, or whatever rational they use, then there will continue to be a group that we can aptly define as true lemmings. Anyone for a swim?

As you pointed out, they came late to the game for the A4, and the chip they offer is weak even for the price. For 195.00 more TAP gives you a filter and 11psi or 40 HP, I think from what I've read neuspeeds chip is around 8 or 9 psi making 25 to 30 Hp. 195.00 for 10 real dyno'd HP is waaaay cheap. But the higher boost chips are the ones to buy, If you drive an A4 with 1 bar you'll never even remember who Neuspeed is. BTW in 1982 Nuespeed was a speck on the real VW radar,Ottenger was the way to go cause the made 16 valve heads for the 83 GTI and Cabrio, (I sold VW then)Neuspeed begane to be known outside of CA. mostly for strut bars, and a very limited line of parts.

Wett is $595.00 to members of this board, and the difference in performance between a 1 bar chip and the 8 or 9 psi that neuspeed offers is like night and day. If you drive a Wett or TAP Stage II or III, you will lie awake late at night thinking about the errors of your ways, of blind loyalty!

Neuspeeds chip is only going to give you 180, the TAP stage I is 190 and Wett is around 200. Who suffers the most from 180 hp stock car? Plus Neuseedless does not offer anything more than 180 both TAP and Wett offer higher output.D

Neuspeeds chip is only going to give you 180, the TAP stage I is 190 and Wett is around 200. Who suffers the most from 180 hp stock car? Plus Neuseedless does not offer anything more than 180 both TAP and Wett offer higher output.

Are you nuts? Some people spend that much on exausts just to get 5 to 10 hp.This is the best buy going. The Neuspeed chip is great but for a little more you can transform this car, this is not throwing the money away, that argument can be made by anyone who's not into cars about ALL of us nuts who like tuning. If you want to make a good point the argument should be is it worth paying $300 to $400 more than the Neuspeed chip to gain 10 to 30 hp? I can't understand why anyone wougld get to this point in tuning an A4 and not want more than the power output that the neuspeed chip offers,even though you save some $.

This point seems to get lost on these "new" tuners. My first car was a new 68 MGB, and trying to squeez hp out of it was expensive, weber carbs for 300 to 400 1968 prices) just to get 5 to 10 hp! I think they should all be made to drive vintage British sports cars for a week, maybe an MG Midget ( no syncro in the crash box) or a bug eyed Sprite, with the mandatory leaking soft-top, and give them the Baptism into the true sports car comunity, and then maybe they will understand the price and cost of HP.

If the 180 hp engine was available, Wett would sell a chip to boost it's performance to 230 hp!<br>It will be priced according to what the market is willing to pay. There is always a market for MORE POWER! Ask Tim Allen!<p>If Neuspeed's lower price was eating into Wett's sales, they would lower their price to stay in business. The fact that they haven't lowered the price is an indicator that people perceive an extra value in their product that justifies the additional cost.<p><br>

Seriously though...if you want some bang...and you only have a few dollars to<br>spend...the Neuspeed/Greedspeed chip may be the way to go. Not everyone<br>is power hungry. Depending upon the situation, and my financial position at<br>the time...I may go either way...the 235 bhp Wett set up or the 180 bhp <br>Neuspeed set-up. For about $140-190 bucks...the bang for buck ratio is<br>pretty damn good. For example $150/30 bhp vs. $600/50 bhp. Just stating<br>an opinion here. The higher the horsepower...the higher the cost.<p>Steve S.<br>97 2.8QM

If you only have a few dollars to spend why are you ( I don't ness. actually mean you Steve)buying 27,000 to 35,000, German sedans? Perhaps a look at the company books are in order! And for those who are not power hungry...you make me sick...just kidding.

after you bought their chip (these prices are through Greedspeed).<p>It is very tempting to start the chipping mildly and then go straight to kkk04 and 14 lb. boost with their kit when I feel like. <p>The same power is $1000 buck MORE with Wett, I do not even mention others.

Dinan chips for a BMW are around $395. Plus another $395 if you have an automatic. And yes, there are exhaust systems from Dinan that can add another $1,000. The thing is, they test the things that they build. Very well. If the Wett chip is well tested, then it is probably worth the extra money.