I desperately need help. I'm on the verge of getting either a 99.5 A4 1.8TQ Tip or... (well, lets just say another car - I don't want people distracted ;)

I love both cars (for different reasons), and suspect that in the end, I'll be happy with either choice. My wife is also torn. Either choice will cost about the same, so no help there. If it matters, I'll be leasing.

I was wondering if anyone else has been in my dilemma - i.e. two cars to choose from, both with pluses and minuses, no clear decision.

So far, I've figured out the following - the A4:

- handles better and has quattro;

- has free maintenance for 3 years, unlike the "other car";

- is probably as reliable as the "other car", but really too close to call.

- is perhaps more fun to drive (if I have to have automatic (long story), at least I've got the Tip and the sports steeting wheel!

- has much less get up and go than the "other car" (I'm somewhat leery of chipping);

- is louder than the "other car" (4 cyl. Turbo vs. a V6 and perhaps more noise dampening)

- is much smaller overall and in the interior (the A4 is about the size of my old Civic!)

- has less bells and whistles (the other car has leather, CD, auto climate control, 17" wheels, sports suspension, etc.).

I'd love to hear from people who were truly torn between the A4 and something else. How/Why did you settle on the A4 (other than the proverbial flip of a coin?). On the other hand, in the unlikely event that there's anyone on the forum who didn't go with the A4, I'd be interested in hearing from you too.

Any thoughts, advice, suggestions, etc. much appreciated. I'm stumped.

Mike S.

nt

At any rate I feel compelled to point out that the a4 does have auto climate control...at least this is the case in the us. Additionally I beleive the fact that audi is offering 'chipped' versions of the 1.8T(overseas with 180HP) with no changes to any mechanical systems from the standard 1.8T, adequetly demonstrates the engine's reliability in this configuration.
I am surprised also to hear that you think the 1.8T is louder than a V6 . While I think it is possible to impose this stereotype on many 4 cylinder engines, I do not beleive it is true in the case of the audi. I have previously owned two cars with v6's...a subaru svx that had a flat6, and an m3 with a straight six. Both these engines are generally known as smooth, but I have found the 1.8t to be equally as smooth, if not smoother at higher rpm.
There are other cars that are in a comparable in price and may offer more bells and whistles standard, but I felt that the quality, fit and finish of the audi more than made up for it. I also think you will receive more responses to your post if you post the name of the other car you are considering...it is likely others have considered that car... more people seem inclined to post if there is something more specific to tak about....
alex
99.51.8T
neuspeed p-chip
neuspeed/bilstein susp.

Ty : First of all, we spent the last 18 months shopping for both an efficient car and an SUV. We were easily sold on the 99' Land Rover Discovery Series II for the SUV but still needed to decide on which car to park along side it. We test drove just about every $20k-$25k car on the market and never really felt happy with any of them. Most of the cars towards the bottom of that range were just plain junk but even at $25k, there did not seem to be a single car that felt as though it was worth that much. We kept thinking that we were expecting too much or perhaps too critical so we went through them all over again... and again...and again. Until we finally decided to up the anti and looked in the $26k-$30k range. We honestly did not expect much to change but indeed everything changed. We never even had to consider a $30k car. There were so many choices at $27k that we could not make up our minds! We were very frustrated but at the same time, relieved. Our budget, come hell or high water, was not to exceed $25k but we could not resist the selection and piece of mind for just $2k more. below is a list of cars that we considered.

BMW 323i > Cool, sporty but too snobby, high maintainance, low resale, rear wheel drive.
Mercedes C-class > Nice package but uncomfortable, too basic, bland styling,maintainance.
VW Passatt > Great car, great warranty, good size, high $$ and fewer options compared to A4.
Nissan Maxima > Nice styling but Japanese....Boo.
Honda Accord > Ugly, poor quality. Plus, I am not that old and dry yet, Japanese...Boo.
Mitsubishi Diamante > Good value, nice car, poor build quality and Japanese.
Volvo S40 > Great car, Safety, nice features, comfortable but its a Mitsubishi Charisma...Boo.
Audi A4 > Sporty as hell, safety, resale value, 3 years free maintainance, German, great engine, superior fit'n'finish to ANY car I had ever seen, even at $35k. And the best thing yet, it had Quattro which no other car had a 4wd system for less than $35k. Not to mention, the Audi has a ton of little cool things built into it that most cars do not have. There are too many to mention but here are a few. Ambient laser lights in the overhead console, first aid kit in rear arm rest, alluminum sill plates, Tiptronic transmission with shift buttons on steering wheel, tons of programming options in the remote, etc...

Marci: I'm hardly a car-buff so I was dependant on Ty somewhat to provide the specifics for information on performance for each of the cars. What I was more concerned with was safety, the looks of the car (pretty shallow, I know), and mostly, keeping it as close to $20,000 as possible. Well, we learned pretty early on that $20,000 wasn't going to buy a car that we'd be happy with so that was upped. I'm VERY picky about car-looks and 99% of what was out there was imediately written off because it was too big, too small, had a big "butt", or the dashboard layout was ugly, etc. We kept narrowing the field of consideration down until finally (FINALLY) it was down to the Audi and the Volvo S40. We test drove one and thought, "that's it! this is the car for us!". Then we'd test drive the other and think the same thing. In the end, we decided that even though the Volvo is a little more plush inside, the Audi had features (like the free scheduled maintainance, roominess on the inside considering it's size, and sportiness) that we just couldn't pass up. Overall, I'd have to say that I'm very happy with the car.

Marci and Ty
99.5 1.8T Q-Tip Sport
Volcano Black

Once you own a German car, you'll never want to go back to a Japanese one. My Maxima had many major problems, among them: I had to have the transmission replaced, and the fuel injectors leaked, almost starting a fire.

On the other hand, I will have had my A4 for four years as of next month, and it is the most reliable car I have ever owned. I plan to trade up for 2001 model next year.

If you're hung up about getting a V-6 (like I was), get the 2.8 model. Luxury-wise, you'll match the Maxima ... and then some.

StevenN 2.8 qm

Was going to upgrade to a newer Maxima (96-97)
Then looked at new Maxima's
THen look VERY seriously at BMW 323.
Drove the A4, bought (leased) it 2 days later!
Main considerations:

Looks a lot better than the Maxima (too bad there's no leather option on the A4)
Like the interior better than the Maxima.
Compared to the Bimmer... although I've loved bimmers since I was a kid long b4 they were the status symbol they seem to be now I just couldn't get my head around the difference... (even though I could have afforded either)
THere's my $.02 CDN!
:)

man, I like german cars as much as I do with my little Honda Civic. I am surprised that you think Japanese car has poor build quality. The interior may not look as 'fancy' as the Audi but that doesn't mean its poorly built. i have a civic as well as a german car(which i'll not disclose here for argument sake) and so far my civic has been running for the past few years as a commuter without any problems period! so far all i had to do is bring it into the shop for oil change and that is it...

... it's not perfect for everyone, or maybe even anyone. But it is a very good car.

I looked at the VW Jetta GLS VR6, Passat 1.8 and 2.8, Honda Accord EX and Civic SI (man, does that thing need to rev to go, but what a machine for 17k), BMW 323 sedan, Acura Integra GS-R, and of course, the A4 1.8 in both Quattro and FWD.

I chose the A4. I think that the closest competitor was the 323, but the price was almost 20% higher when considering I got my A4 at invoice through CarOrder (well, if it ever gets here, that is).

The Integra was also quite good, but smaller, much cheeper looking in the interior, and low on torque under 3000 rpm. It does, however, have a stick like butter (are you paying attention, Audi?). I know a lot of people like to bash Integras because there are a lot of a**holes who drive them, but they're good cars. YMMV.

Finally, the Jetta VR6 would have been good, except for the numb handling and the overly sensitive throttle. (I'd rather have an A4 with the VW VR6 than the 1.8T, but that's just me, I guess).

I kept coming back to the A4 because of the excellent package that it offers. Excellent handling, well done interior, nice lines outside, good engine in the 1.8T, passable shifter, and of course, quattro. Major drawbacks: reliability not as good as the leading Japanese brands, lots of reported dealer problems, tight availability.

Vote with your $$.

Doug

Test drove everything on the market in the $25,000-$35,000 range.

Mercedes 230 - Uncomfortable, seats like a rock
Acura TL - Unrefined interiorally, and generic exteriorally
Maxima - Couldn't get past the looks
I30-Best of the Japanese bunch. Wasn't entirely thrilled with the dash. Looked a little cheap.
BMW 323 - Rear wheel drive. Didn't care for the interior. Wasn't impressed with the ride. Didn't feel confidence for driving in the inclemate weather.
Lincoln LS-Liked this car. If I were looking for a larger car, might have considered this, although haven't owned an American car for about 15 years, and would certainly want to wait a few years to see how it does on reliability. Also, again rear wheel drive.
Volvo S40-Really liked this car. Almost gave up on the A4. Only car that I liked enough to buy. My husband absolutely loved the A4 more, especially the quattro.
Saab 9-5 & 9-3-The 9-3 was O.K., but on the test drive it had numerous rattles, and my husband noticed turbo lag which he was irked about. Drove the 9-5, much better. Almost bought this car on the spot, but was leery about the lack of dealerships, and the past reliability of Saabs. Great car.
Volvo GLT-A boat. Stiff ride and heavier (at least it seemed that way to me), than an 18 wheeler truck.

I have to admit I kept on coming back to the Audi, my husband was completely sold on it, and had major doubts about the reliability thing, especially coming off of extremely reliable Japanese cars that never had any problems. This was agonizing me for over a year, but I finally came to the conclusion that it is just a car, I love it, I only have one life to live, and my heart says buy it. If it turns out to be the wrong decision, it can always be turned around. Life is full of taking chances, it you don't, you're not living. If I feel I will own this car longer than the warranty period, I will definitely get an extended warranty for piece of mind. It's like going to Atlantic City, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, but you have a great time either way. I want a great time for as long as it lasts, and am willing to possibly give up some reliability for the fun factor.

Good luck in your decision!

but I'm an engineer and I love the way the Audi is designed and put together. Audis are complex, and the complexity makes for more breaking, but the beauty is in the details, and you can tell that these cars are designed and put together by people who love cars.

It is only my opinion but Honda's have been sitting pretty for too long and lacking of reason. True, they are good cars but so are many others in the same price range.

My Wife and I get new cars every 1 to 2 years. Every single time we shop, we find yet another reason to NOT buy Japanese. There is always an Audi, BMW, Saab, Volvo or Domestic car that offers atleast a better warranty and for the same options and performance with comparable if not better build quality. Usually, most cars in the same price range as a Japanese car have better performance and overall styling as well as fit and finish.

Alot of the Japanese cars have the reputation for still being on the road when other cars have since then died but on the other hand, most Japanese cars I have seen with 100k or more on them look like they have not faired very well inside. Too many squeaks, cracks, broken switches, faded fabrics, and many other symptoms of cheesy parts (regardless of how long they will last.) I have seen many VW's, Audi's and Volvos that have 200k on them and they look better than the Japanese car with 100k.

Aside from all of these controversial issues, what about pride and loyalty? Now I am not so liberal as to say "buy American" and hold my fingers up in a peace sign, but I would much rather buy from a friendly country rather than the one country that may very well put 90% of american companies out of business.

I will buy any car I want and you would do the same. I am not saying anything bad about Japanese cars but come on guys, name one Japanese car that equeals the performance, fun, cool factor, fit & finish, value, safety and comfort of a German car.

I would never buy Honda or Nissan when I can drive an Audi, BMW, Volvo or Saab for near the same price.

Also, Who would you rather see taking our american dollars? The Japanese will use every dollar they make to conquer us!

than the A4 for the money. I am not an Audi guy. Some of you may not agree with my reasons but Audi has never really appealed to me until now. As much as I wanted to ignore the A4, I could not. There was not a single car that could even come close to the quality, ride, performance, features and let alone, have a 4wd systems for even close to the $25k of the A4.

I cannot fault anyone for choosing a German car based on objective valuation of criteria.

I just laugh when people make simple minded statements like "German cars are the best" or "Japanese cars are the best"

Objectively speaking...

German cars : stiffer handling, cool factor, safety, minimalist fit and finish, bragging rights "oh, you have a BMW", less comfortable ride, less reliable

Japanese cars : softer handling (at least in North America), better engine performance, more attention to ergonomics, better value, less bragging rights "oh, you have a Honda Accord", more comfortable, more reliable (at least Honda and Toyota)

I'm sorry, but maybe I'm a little confused here. Countries, and companies (which are paying less and less attention to national borders these days) have no friends (regardless of what they may claim) and act (or should act) based upon what is best for the Country or company. Germany AND Japan are currently allies with the US, this is because it is a mutually beneficial relationship, not because we're friends. Indeed, Japan needs the friendship of the US right now more than ever. Their economy is still not on the road to recovery, and they face a number of issues including reducing the savings rate of their population to stimulate spending. The US is one of the more capitalist countries in the world, as such THE MARKET DETERMINES which companies succeed and fail here. If consumers like the product then they will buy it. Now, if you choose to argue that Japan has unfair trade restrictions and unfairly aids Japanese companies, giving them an advantage in competition...then write your Congressman, Senators, and President and encourage them to be more agressive in trade negotiations. Also, remember that Japanese companies have significant US holdings and use US (among other countries) parts AND that US companies have holdings in Japanese (among others) companies.

Companies are becoming far more global and national allegiance is becoming less and less significant. Also, remember, that the US is entering a new postindustrial economic phase where technology, financial, pharmaceutical, and service industries will become more and more dominant.

Regards,
Rodney

'99 A4 1.8tqms

A 150hp 1.8T is not what I would call a performance car. Sure, if you buy an S4 or M3, you'll find plenty of performance but then value isn't that good now is it?

Last I checked, German cars weren't known for comfort and the Swedes were the leaders in safety.

So if you want to buy German for fun, cool factor, and fit & finish, buy all means go ahead.

Just remember that the past does not equal the future so generalizations are almost always limited.

The more consumers are willing to break their biases, preconceived notions, and prejudices on automobile purchases the better it is for all of us because competition and the free market will increase the quality of choices available to all of us.

When my lease is up on my A4 2.8, I am going straight to the "other" dealership.

I have owned every German make and, thus far, the Audi has been the only vehicle with which I have been somewhat disappointed. Just my opinion.

Thanks everyone for your comments, feedback, etc. Some of the points raised were quite helpful. While I shouldn't be surprised, it's nice to know others have been in the same boat.

If it matters, I'm in Canada, not the US. As a result, prices are different (inevitably higher!). As well, the whole US vs. Japan vs. Germany thing mentioned sometimes isn't terribly important to me.

After reading and thinking about people's comments, I think the remaining concerns I have with the A4 (gee can you tell I'm angling for the A4?) are the lack of get up and go, and the small size of the back seat and trunk. I realise I have the option of chipping the car, and it appears that would cost about $800 (Canadian) - is this about right?. We also have a young'un on the way, and so will need to fit a baby seat in the back seat, and all the stuff that goes with kids in the trunk (along with our stuff).

Given that, are there people out there who have:

1. Have the stock 99.5 1.8T with Tip - i.e. not chipped? If so, how does the acceleration (or lack) feel? Is it something you notice/care about? We still have our old Civic sedan, and I'd guess it's about 10-11 seconds to 60mph. When getting on the highway or passing, the lack of acceleration really, really bothers us.

2. Have a baby seat in the back? Are there any issues? While I remember earlier this year a discussion of fitting baby seats, just how tight is it going to be with a seat in the back? Are you able to keep the front seats all the way back (we're both tall)? If we have another kid, are we going to have to get another car, or are small kids perfect for a small back seat?

Again, thanks for all the input,

Mike

I think you'll soon discover that the stuff for even one baby on an overnight or vacation (toys, portable crib, etc.) is more than you imagined. Personally I think the A4 is a little small to be suitable as an all-around "family car". Others may disagree. BUT to respond to your question, my kids are now 7 and 4 and they fit comfortably in the back seat of my A4 (my wife drives a '97 A6 wagon, and that's the daily kid-hauler). No idea how well the A4 works with an infant seat, but check the archives because this was discussed a little while back. As I recall, someone commented that a rear-facing infant seat was a bit tight (and if you're both tall that could be an issue), but that once the switch was made to a regular child seat the fit was much easier. I can tell you that small children out of their car seats are not a problem. Bear in mind -- an often overlooked point, but worth considering in your case -- that the doors on the A4 open W I D E. That's a bonus when you're handling an infant in a carrier. You really should compare this feature with that of the "other car". It's something you will notice every single day once the baby arrives, and I bet you haven't even thought of it. Also, while an A4 sedan may provide too little trunk space (this may or may not be the case; you need to evaluate realistically what you're really gonna be doing and the amount of space you'll really need), an A4 Avant would probably provide plenty, for now. And an A6 Avant (in another price league of course) would provide more still. Both are stunning cars, IMO.

I drive a 1.8T manual, so I can't comment on the "lack of get up and go" that seems to concern you so much. Just where that factor goes on your list of priorities is a personal thing. My wife's A6 wagon, with the "old" 2.8 engine, isn't fast off the mark, but she is not an aggressive driver, and it's still more than adequate for typical on-ramp acceleration needs. We certainly could've purchased a faster car. But quattro was a big draw for us. The excellent build quality was another. We didn't put 0-60 at the top of the list.

A last word on country of origin: You said the german/japanese thing isn't an issue for you. I wonder if you're considering it in the terms being expressed here. Having owned a Japanese car (Camry V6), I was impressed with its mechanical reliability. But there were many little things about the way it was constructed that over time irked me to no end, and which ultimately led me to conclude that although the drivetrain was reliable, overall the car was not very well built and some of the materials (notably the cloth seat coverings) were not very durable. This is a common theme one hears about Japanese cars, and becomes evident only after a period of ownership. I can't speak for everyone else on this forum, but my guess is that this is what at least a few were talking about in dissing Japanese makes. It's not a nationality thing, or a snob thing. It's a quality issue, at least in my mind. The materials and the workmanship on an Audi will never disappoint you in that way. The A4 is whole lot of car for the money.

Rick