So I talk to this guy on the phone, and he tells me to come on in and he will work the best deal he can with me. I get there at 4:30. I wait for him until 6pm because he just sold a beautiful black 1.8TQ to some chick in a hot blue skirt (you on this board?) Anyway, so after waiting patiently for 1 1/2 hours for him, he sits down with me. Tells me he doesn't have a car with the specs I want. Tells me he didn't have time to search on the computer. Tells me he's probably not going to. I ask him what he has available, he tells me a 1.8TQ with the works. I don't trust sunroofs (if I ever roll over) I am an audiophile and think all systems in a car sucks compared to in a room so I don't want the Bose system, and I like the stock 5 spokes better than the 7 spokes and would also rather do the suspension myself. Well, he turns to me and tells me this "You seem like a blunt person, so I will be blunt with you. This is all I have, and I either you buy this or else there is nothing else I can do for you." Fair enough. So I take a look at the numbers and we overshot by about $5K from what I was expecting. He turns to me and says "Well, I have to make 12% off of you, bottom line. I can scrape that down to 10% but that's if you buy it today. A dealership cannot stay in business if they sell the car for under 10% profit. YOU ARE NOT WORTH MY TIME AND EFFORT IF I CANNOT MAKE AT LEAST 10% OFF OF YOU." WOW!!! What a statement! I think the fact that I look young made him think that I was easy to push around. I laughed a little bit because I have Sean's spreadsheet survey of all the prices in the past year (Thanks Sean!) and I took it out, took a look, and the majority of the people bought theirs for under 10%. I stared at him for quite a long time, I stood up, and told him "Then we have nothing more to talk about" and walked out. (Breath interjection)<p>Now I don't care how nice of a car it is, if the dealer is an *******, and not willing to sell you one, then it's a piece of ****! I've had the same treatment at the BMW, and MB dealers as well! Screw them, I will walk in with an aluminum briefcase handcuffed to me next time with about $60K in cash, tell them I want to buy, then walk out and tell them I would but their service SUCKS. <p>I would take a Saturn over an Audi anyday if that's the type of service I get. I don't care. If they won't sell me a car, then I will go to someone that will. <p>McKenna Audi in Norwalk CA, the guy's name was David Brundadge, I might have miffed up the last name but it's close. <p>Someone posted that you compare the time you are at the dealership vs. in your car. I agree, but what if the dealer doesn't even want to sell you a car? Answer that one! I have the money, I'm ready to buy, but he's an *******, bottom line. Now you are all going to sit there and tell me that was just one dealer out of the bunch and that I should let one dealer effect my judgement. Well, for those of you who had a great experience, you are allowing one dealer to effect your outlook on the entire firm, so don't start with me. If there is 1 ******* dealer, that's 1 too many in my book. I would rather walk into Saturn, get treated like I should, and feel good walking out of there instead of getting railroaded by some *******.<p>

Try a different car. Not a saturn, but a 323i.<p>You might get a great dealer. You might even get $1,500 over invoice like my buddies have been.<p>Chris Gröos

I understand how you feel. However, before writing-off an entire product line try visiting a different dealership. If Norwalk is in the LA-Orange County area there have to be many alternative Audi dealers nearby.<p>One thing I will do if I experience serious problems is to write a letter to Audi of America and copy it to the Dealership and the Better Business Bureau. You'd may be surprised at the results!<p>Me feeling is that every car make (Saturn included) has a few dealerships and salespeople who haven't quite figured out what "Customer Service" means. <p>Happy car hunting.<p>M. Ivy

i had a very bad experience w/Mckenna in huntington beach when helping to purchase my girlfriends VW. (bought the car in May, no tags yet; they ran a credit report on me so they could get a deal faster even though I explicitly said, and they confirmed, that my signature was to drive the car off the lot for insurance coverage (I'm stupid, but it sounded reasonable), they sent the title to the wrong lien holder, the list really goes on, free floor matsprovidd in box that my gf picked up - only 3 were in the box.<p>Mckenna employs a bunch of sleeze bags, zero's who get a kick out of screwing people. I wouldn't by a damn thing from them. I drove 1 1/2 hoiurs to Advantage Audi in Loma Linda to by my Avant. By the way, the udi dealer in the Santa Anna auto mall blows as well.<p>Just my opinion

Albert,<p>Have you tried talking to an auto broker. They usually are more customer oriented and their job IS to search for a car that meets you specs. If you truly want an A4, don't give up that easily. But from the sounds of it you may have already made your resolve to getting a Saturn. If this is not the case, try a broker, or Costco's car buying service even (and I don't think you have to buy more than one to get a deal ;-).<p>Trying to help,<br>Bert

I drove the car and before we even started talking numbers, the saleperson said, we are selling the Audi's at 5 percent over. I said tomyself, "that's easy." I finally got it for 3 percent without any real haggling.<p>I demoed a car overnight, they were pleasant, and treated me well. Thus far, the Audi service department has been most impressive.<p>The guys at my local BMW are royal pains. I refuse to deal with either BMW or Mercedes in my City (I am in Tennesse). In fact, I have gone to Atlanta to deal with Mercedes and Texas for Bimmers.<p>Interestingly, I believe Saturn's markup is 12 percent and it is absolutely no haggle. I may be wrong but I had a friend who sold at Saturn and if I recalll correctly, the mark-up was 12 percent.

i feel your pain. i bought my 98.5 a4q last year but i also had to go through 5 dealerships until i found the one that would talk to me. if it makes you feel any better the one that tried to screw me over by delivering a car with stuff i didnt want and didnt have the things i wanted, went out of business. it was howard holmes in elmsford ny. i went by on the day they went out of business with my new a4 and stopped by to say hi to the a..hol..(sorry) dealer. i laughed in his face and told him thats what happens when you get to cocky. nobody likes you and they wont come back for sales or service. the last laughs on him. perservier and you will fing a place you like and the car you want. good luck and don't give in and get something you really didn't want.

Albert: <br>I was just getting ready to buy a 1998 A4 1.8T manual and that is it. It was the base model, no sunroof, no bose but no quattro either. It was white with gray cloth and it was all I could afford. But things change and I had to buy my wife a new car instead, a 1999 Mazda Protege ES and it is not bad for a small car in the $15k price range.<p>The A4 is in New Orleans at Cresent City Motors. If you are interested and want the name of someone there, please post a reply and I get you all the info.<p>dk

when i was shopping at Mc Kenna for an Audi those dumb asses would not give me the time! i am only 20 years old with alot of saved up cash. i went in looking for one and i was out in 20 min not a single sales man helped me out and when i did get to sit with a sales man he wanted about 30,250 for the car i wanted???<p>i said screw him and screw the dealer and took off. ended up buying my car from Circle imports in Long beach they worked out a good deal. i ended up with a better car for about the same price. my car came out to be 29,600 thsi was with the sport seats. at Mc Kenna the car i was trying to buy didn't have the sport seats.<p>DON'T EVER GO TO Mc Kenna!!!!!!!! they are a bunch of PRICKS! there sirvice is SUCKS TOO!!!!!

(nt)

Imagine going in and getting a loaded 1994 325is when you are 22!<p>I never got respect at the BMW dealers because of my age. They wouldn't even talk to me. One dealer wouldn't even let me drive an M3! He said, "people who are serious about this car don't NEED to test drive the car." Can you believe that?<p>I bought my M3 from the same dealer (now new ownership) a few months ago. They took me a little mot seriously now that I am 25. I guess age makes a difference to these guys.<p>Off the topic: my GF and I used to get treated like crap at restaurants - NICE ONES TOO - because of our age. We'd get stuck in crappy seats, helped last at the check-in, crappy service. And so on.<p>We actually had one waitress ask for our ID's, RUN OVER TO THE FIREPLACE and hold them at various angles to the light to make sure they were not fake. Made a big scene in front of everyone. Asked us, "do you want anything to drink ... a coke, lemonade, water?" WHAT??? This was at Five Crowns in Laguna Beach. Yeah, $200 dinner easily.<p>Okay, enough. Point is, age discrimination is prevalent. Expect it from car dealerships too.<p>Chris Gröos

I'm also 25 , work in IT consulting and make about 57k/ year. But I wouldn't be able to afford an M3 now or a 325 3 years ago.. So what's the secret to your success? Congratulations to you, whatever it is.

I had a similar experince with a number of Audi dealers here in Atlanta. After I finally found a dealer that knew what the hell he was talking about, I could not find one that did not want to screw me. I ended up getting all my questions answered over the internet (thanks A4.org) and from service people. Since I fell in love with the car, I resolved to buy one from a dealership with a salesman that would deal. If that meant going across state lines...I was going to do it. I even did the whole Auto-By-Tel thing. Ultimately a female salesperson called me in response to the Auto-By-Tel inquiry. She was much more straight forward than the other arrogant salemen I had spoken with. Plus I could more easily tell when she was fudging about things. <p>My advise to anyone that feels that the salemen they meet suck, is to keep trying different people. Maybe even someone relatively new to car sales. That way they don't know how to lie quite as good. Eventually you will find your car. But do your own homework, getting a salesperson that is both knowledgable and a willing to work with you may be a bit impossible.

Look, you ran into a knucklehead dealer; take a deep breath, relax, then go find another one. I have bought 2 new American made cars in the past and the whole looking and buying experience with both was a complete nightmare (6+ hours of negotiating with this manager and that manager and the manager's manager, just to get a deal that still sucked). I got my A4 for 4.75% over invoice after only 2 minutes of negotiating over the phone! Yeah, the Saturn dealer is going to be real friendly and there is no negotiating involved. But the Saturn is only half the car that an A4 is. Now, read the first sentence again. I won't say "good luck finding your A4" because good luck is not what you need; just a little patience.<p>Advice: take a printout of kbb's price quotes when you go looking. "Hey, you laugh. It works!"

I am on my thrid new Audi. I'm 24. After being treated like a second class citizen by Wagner Motors (in MA), I shopped around. Since I travel frequently for work, I've been able to sample roughly ten other dealerships. I've had very bad luck in Greenwich, CT and in the Boston area. I have been generally happy when in less affluent areas (Pittsfield MA, up-state NY). It's sad, but I think it comes down to snob factor. Speaking of snobs, my absolute worse care buying experience came when I looked at a 900 turbo. To make a long story short, I was ignored for 1.5 hours only to be told that "they are not in the business of test driving cars," and that I had to give a $500 deposit to prove that I was serious. <p>Not to make sweeping stereotypes, but... I agree that most car sales people are "*******s." With very few exceptions, they are all unintellegent, and poor business people.<p>PS - If I ever have the $, without a doubt, I will buy a Ferrari from Miller Motercar in Greenwich CT. The salesmanager there is a true gentleman. He took me for a ride in a new 550 and explained to me that "just because someone can't afford one now, doesn't mean they'll never be able to afford one. When they can, I'd hope they'll buy from me." That's the right attitude!

But, I have been working full-time since I was 16. Parents required me to work 40 hours per week during school and 60 hours per week in the summer. Saved up lots of money. Spent it on BMW's!<p>And I got a good deal on some RE when I was 22. The tax write-off basically pays for the car.<p>Stuff like that.<p>No, mommy and daddy have NOT given me a single penny. Even in HS. I worked for everything.<p>Long story, but there's the basics. I would have rather sent this to you via E-mail. O'well.<p>The secret? Cash flow. And got a good job at a young age.<p>Things that affect cash flow? Maximizing income and reducing expenses. Easier to decrease expenses when you're young, than it is to increase income. So, I went for a house and I write off school expenses, mileage, all kinds of stuff. All legal!<p>Enough.<p>Chris Gröos

<p><p><br>

If you read below, you will find that my experience with Zumbach was different, although I am no great fan of that dealership for many reasons. The flaw in your reasoning lies in your response to those that did have good experiences with their dealers. In response to the argument that you shouldn't let one bad experience with one dealer affect your judgment, you say that one good experience by others shouldn't affect your judgment either. Frankly, I couldn't give a damn if everyone else's dealers are *******s like you claim, so long as mine treats me well. The Audi product is well built, reliable and a hoot to drive. It is worth traveling great distances to find the dealer who will treat you right. Screw the guy who doesn't think he needs your business and find someone who does. Remember, its the A4 that you will live with 365 days of the year, not the dealer. I guarantee you those days will be much more fun in an A4 than a Saturn.

I would write a very firm but polite letter to the dealer's owner recounting your experience and letting him know that they lost a sale because of the a-hole attitude; copy to Audi of America.<p>Then I'd start trying other Audi dealers. The reasoning you got was pure b.s. I bought my '98 A4Q Avant for ~3% over invoice with no hassles, excellent service, etc. (Heishman's, Arlington, Virginia). For a '99 1.8T maybe a little more over invoice, I'm not sure. But,you know, Saturn can treat you right because what their no haggle policy does is take advantage of anyone who has negotiation skills, to appease the lemming mass of people who don't. So of course they treat you right, they're making a nice profit on each unit with little or no effort...And BTW, no flame here, but you cannot compare a Saturn to Audi in terms of build quality, ride, etc.<p>Find a decent Audi dealer and a salesman who's not a complete jerk, then decide.

<br>Sorry to hear your problem, Albert....and being 24 didn't help at my dealer neither. <br>When are they going to realize that there are alot of young professionals making more than them?!?<br>I actually had to walk up to a sales person to ASK if they have time to show me the car! I guess next time I should wear a 3 piece suit, a gold watch and a brief case to make myself somewhat presentable. <p>My dealer blows goat! I have proof! :)<p>Cris<br>

there are other audi dealers,,, by the way, if you do buy the saturn be sure to get the extended warenty, your gonna need it. the general still makes crap and sells allot of it. try another audi dealer, you wont be sorry, there are jerks in every phase of life, sounds like you found another.<br>

Some chick named (patty I think) answered. Said that "Nobody who's REALLY interested in a car would try to make a deal over the phone, they want to come in and test drive, learn more about the car, and throw around numbers." She must have mistaken me for someone else. It's not like I'm an Audi enthusist or anything like that!! She refused to give me even a ballpark price, or what she has on hand. Pardon my french, BITCH. <p>I think she doesn't quite understand that she is talking to someone who has her costs memorized, who can draw her the Quattro system in his sleep. <p>I am busy at work right now, but rest assured, Mckenna's Audi manager will get a phone call from me. A fax, etc... they will hear from me, and I will post my fax on a4.org for all to see. They screwed with the wrong person. I don't, under any circumstance BACK DOWN.<p>

You're painting with an awfully broad brush. Everybody is different, I don't care how they make their living.

Albert, <p> someone on this board (I think) bought a car from AutoByTel or some place like that. Got the car they wanted at a reasonable price.... You may want to stop by their site... doesn't cost anything... <br>BTW, I had a similar incident with my dealer. I filed a complaint with to AOA and one of the dealer's survey. The sales manager had the guts to call me back one evening to harass me about giving them a bad review!!<br>FWIW, it's almost a lost cause... I swear I will never buy from a (unprofessional) dealer again.<p>Cris

Get real. This isn't life or death. You're just buying a car. If you don't like how the dealer treats you, move on to the next one. <p>It's obvious you're no enthusiast since the alternative to the A4 is the Saturn. Thus, I would save my money and buy the GM product. <p>By the way, based on your repeated use of denigrating terms, I doubt you are a peach to do business with. <p>Paul<br>

I don't mean to be harsh, but this really is a waste of bandwidth. I mean does this forum really need to know every single step you are taking to buy your car? Every dealer response? Personally, I think it's also rude of you to mention names of sales consultants and flame them here. You're buying a car, what do you expect? It's never cut and dry. <p>Jacob<br>98 2.8qms

I find that strange, if someone had a bad experience, I would like to know about it. If you aren't interested in my Audi buying experience, then I don't know what this forum is for. <p>Also, if you aren't happy with what I am writing, then don't read it. It's a fair statement I think.<p>I apologize, I am not the patient little sheep that you are, I don't like getting screwed in the ass, and I don't take it lying down. You have an A4, I don't. Now who's to blame for that? It's my fault. I understand. Whatever, I don't even want to get into it, if I have a bad dealer experience, then it's always my fault. Just like Clinton lying under oath is Monica's fault... Check your premise and then point your blaming finger...<p>

Que ridiculo! Quit whining and find another dealership. I'm 19, and I bought my A4 at McKenna 4 months ago. NO ONE pushed me around. Everyone was SUPER courteous, and they offered to let me test drive anything I wanted. I had already test driven the A4, so I simply wanted to make a deal. It took less than 20 minutes to reach a good price that I was comfortable with. Why are you EVEN CONSIDERING A SATURN ALONG WITH AN A4!!!??? They are NOTHING alike. The Saturn is not even CLOSE to being a substitute for an A4. This is the BEST car I've ever owned. After driving the A4, my old E30 BMW feels like crap! I'm not dissing on Saturns, they are nice reliable economy cars, but IT SUCKS COMPARED TO AN A4!!! If you can't tell the difference, then you don't NEED an A4. WHen I was shopping for my car, I visited four Audi dealerships, and I was treated VERY nicely at 3 of them. If you are still interested in buying an A4, e-mail me and I'll give you the name and number of my friend from USC who does fleet parttime for Rusnak. A couple of guys on this board have bought A4's from him already. He'll get you a no haggle deal. <p>Mike

I completely agree with what you did. No matter how bad you want a car, you don't want to give your hard-earned money to someone who treats you like crap or to a car company that supports that person.<p>3 months ago, I was in the market for a BMW 528. I went to Foreign Motors West, a dealership just outside of Boston. My wife and I were treated like total crap there. So I went down the road to the Audi dealer, where I was treated very well, and bought an A4 (I would have bought an A6 but no manual available).

lithium@pcmagic.net

Negotiating can be fun. They don't need your individual business so don't go in with an attitude. Actually, I would expect them to stay away from agressive people because of the AoA survey. <p>Sales people are normal people like the rest of us. If they like you, then they will probably try to swing you a better deal. Look dissapointed and dejected when they can't meet your price and you can't afford theirs. Say you will think about it and come back later. Come back toward the end of the month. If the car is still there than they may be willing to come down. Try to make them want to help you at least.<p>Mark (98.5 2.8 QMS)

I bought my A4 from McKenna...Got a great deal and I've received great service from the service department. I was 23 when I bought my car (24 now)...Age has nothing to do with it! You guys who complain just got stuck with a BAD sales person...If you don't like the guy, ask for the manager and demand a different sales person! You're the one with money ready to buy a car...You could demand another sales person. Same thing in the service department...if you don't like the consultant, ask for another. <p>That's that!

What are these? Where can they be obtained?

Look, if you're willing to sit there waiting for a CAR SALESMAN for 90 minutes while he takes care of another customer, you are the one with a problem. Was he the only salesman in the place? <p>If you don't treat yourself with respect, noone will . Get a clue.<p>Paul

OK, little boy.<p>1) Nobody defended the dealer's actions. It seems clear that the consensus was to move on to another dealer.<p>2) Apparently, you are the patient little sheep who likes anal sex (on the receiving end) since you waited 90 minutes for a car salesman. I bought my car in less time than that.<p>3) Your constant use of profanity and demeaning terms along with some pathetic logic marks you as an immature and overall unpleasant person.<p>4) I doubt the veracity of your whole story from yesterday's wreck thread to this mess. It's just all too silly.<p>Take care,<p>Paul 98.5 2.8qMS<p><br>

I am just so shocked at comments like yours. It is all my fault. I understand your underlining statement. Why is it my fault? I am a very pleasent person to be around, EXCEPT when someone makes an idiotic comment like that dealer or you. Why do I have to defend myself for stating the obvious? He was an Ass, pardon my French. <p>You don't know me nor my life, and while you think your opinions are actually worth something to me, they aren't. I'm sorry if I'm hurting your ego, I'd hurt your brain but there doesn't seem to be too much gray or white matter there. <p>My waiting at the dealership jumps to a reference of anal sex and sheep, incredible. That's like Clinton blaming El Nino for his sexual affairs with Monica... <p>You MUST be a democrat....<br>

Let me get this straight, all of us who have had bad service, it's because we don't have self respect? Nice non-logic. Whatever, you aren't even worth my time.

Ya know...if I ever get fired or laid off....I think I would make a great Audi salesguy...and then everyone can come to me for a 4-5% over invoice deal.<p>Hey Kev....still waiting on the Franklins tape...I will mail to you when I<br>get it.<p>Steve

Which Rusnak? Pasadena? Someone posted a complaint about another Rusnak Audi dealership up North. Check the archives.<br>So far, Rusnak in Pasadena has been pretty decent to me. As a 25 year-old, I expected they would treat me marginally (at best). When looking at A4's last year, I was treated to probably the best drive, ever--they really let me push the car to its limits. They also let me test drive a Boxster. There aren't many dealers out there that would be as accomadating. I suggest you give them another chance.

So it seems that this salesperson and you didn't hit it off.. sometimes this happens. But this does not necessarily make him an *******. I don't hear about him calling you names. All he did was tell you how much he was willing to work for. And there is certainly no problem with that. Obviously not everyone does that, or they wouldn't be selling any Audi's at all. <p>So go to a different salesperson. If he wants to be like that to everyone then he'll be out of a job in no time. Complain to the dealership or to AoA, but if you want an A4 then maybe you should approach the salesperson with a different attitude. I'm sure waiting 1 and 1/2 hours for him didn't put you in the best mood (it doesn't matter whose fault that was). So drop in on another salesperson or another dealer. That's what i'd do. No use getting all upset about it.<p>Peter.<br>

It is Kelly's Blue Book(KBB) quote.<br>You can obtain it from www.kbb.com for free.

What happened to the customer is always right???