Once again, we are trying to decide what to get. I am personally in favor of the A4, however my wife would like to get a 4Runner Limited (she drives a Maxima, I'm getting rid of my Integra). While she like the A4 vs. the BMW, Volvo, Saab and Volkswagen, she feels that the A4 is too small for (near future) kids and that it would not do well in a crash vs.an SUV (which there are many in the Michigan area). Either I have to come up with a miracle compromise car (the A6 is too flashy in our area) or else I'm going to be driving an overpriced behemoth soon. Any advice is much appreciated.

Thanks

Sunday's New York Times criticises the idea that SUV's are safest in a crash

There a lots of reasons to choose an A4 over a 4Runner.
1) 4Runner's handling is as scary as any sport-utility vehicles. High center of gavity, numb road feel and uncontrollable body rolls. I have driven my friend's 4Runner Limited. I got out of the car as soon as possible when I reached a back street. (the only SUVs that are enjoyable are the M-Class and RX300)
2) I think the best crash test sport-utilities are Mercedes M-Class and Lexus RX300. As I remembered, 4Runner is not at the top end of the list.
3) 4Runner's styling has already been introduced since 1995. Its now 2000 model-year, 4Runner will have a major change in at least one more year. I predict will be redesign at 2001.
4) 2000 A4 has side curtain for all passengers and optional HID headlights. A4 is designed for active safety (Quattro, 4-link front suspensions) as well as passive safety.
5) A4 is a unique European luxury sports sedan. Interior is tasteful, exterior is timless and its very reliable. More over, you can get Avant in States. Drive a 4Runner (or any SUV) means you are blend in with the public.
Hope this help,
Tom
97 A4 1.8TQMS
99 JETTA IV GLS 2.0
00 (OR 01) NEW BEETLE GLS 1.9TDI (ON ORDER)
98.5 A4 1.8TQAS WETTED

I now own a Nissan Pathfinder LE. It has every imaginable amenity, and is really quite nice. It rides nice, has a great Bose stereo, has been very reliable, etc. I bought it because it was the "trendy" thing to do. After owning it a little over a year, I find that I feel more and more every day like I am driving a "truck", can't maneuver myself into and out of situations like I could with my former Prelude, and feel actually more vulnerable to accidents because of this. Although, because of the mass of the car, if I should get into an accident with a Dodge Neon, I would probably fair better than the Dodge, I still have the chance of flipping over. This, coupled with the fact that it is rear wheel part-time only 4 wheel drive, when the road surface is slippery, and even when it is not, I found that my front wheel drive Prelude inspired much more confidence in me driving in and getting out of all sorts of situations.

Top that with the fact that I just got married, and my husband owns a Jeep Grand Cherokee, we decided that a two SUV family is just too much. That is why I am selling the Pathfinder and getting an A4.

Basically what I am trying to say is that although the only advantage to me of an SUV besides the utility, if you need it, is that you sit up high and can see above traffic. As far as safety is concerned, I personally feel safer in a car that you can quickly maneuver.

Just a woman's point of view.

If the A4 Avant is too small, reconsider the Passat wagon. Of course, you won't have the AWD of the Audi, but it's still miles better than a 4Runner in terms of driving dynamics. The build quality is excellent and safety-wise, I'd think the Passat is far better than the 4Runner.

Why is the A6 considered flashy? The A6 Avant is a very nice car, as long as you don't want to accelerate. ;-)

TM

it's the A6. It's no flashier than an A4, and is MUCH roomier. I have an A4 and finally had to give in and admit that humans can't be comfortably carried in the back, so I also got an A6 for when we want company. Much better.

I also live in Michigan. I also work as an engineer on SUV's. My company purchases most SUV's for competitive analysis. The 4 runner does offer a decent ride compared to most others, but like most SUV’s based on a truck platform the ride and handling is clumsy. I purchased a 99.5 A4 Avant 3 months ago. The ride and handling is second to none, especially for a vehicle in this price range. I drive a wide range of different vehicles, this one by far rules the road! You need to ask yourself the following questions: Do you tow anything, do you drive off road, not dirt roads, but real off road? If yes get an SUV, else go for the Audi. Only problem I’ve encountered, you can’t get a set of golf clubs across the back. You need to fold down one of the seats, which means you can only take three people. Yes, the A4 is a bit small, but it is true luxury!

GaryO
99.5 A4 Avant T1.8

Crash test results are extremely deceiving. Many SUV's roll over during side impact crash tests but get an excellent rating nevertheless because the definition of the test is how much damage is done to the vehicle and not how much passenger's are put at peril. Check out the consumer reports web site for details.

If you need the space AND the gound clearance then an SUV may be the right choice. Otherwise, most larger sedans and wagons have more useable room than many SUV's.

Good luck

nt

For crash test info check http://www.iihs.org (or is it "com."?... not sure). They have stats for fatality/miles for lots of vehicles based on real world accidents. And some of the results are counter-intuitive. In general bigger is better but, for example, you are safer in a Honda Civic than an F-350 PU truck. And if she's concerned about the A4 being too small, just under-feed those kids. Starvation keeps them from getting too feisty as well!

Byron 99 A4 Avant m*(TAP1)

none of them address the issue of kids, especially young ones. I LOVE my 99.5 Avant 2.8 and smile continously at the thought that I actually got one. But this is no family car/wagon. I have a 3 y/o and a 8 mo/o and it's more than little bit of a trick to get us all in the Avant. The sedan would be near impossible for any trips requiring the full gear (you'll understand soon enough). As much as I don't want to drive an SUV or minivan everyday (and won't), my wife really needs something larger to use as the family car. The problem is the child safety seats. You start with rear facing infant seats that take up an incredible amount of room (only fits behind my wife, has to be switched when we switch drivers) and work up through two or three other sizes until they can ride w/o special considerations. But that's at least 4-5 yrs of age. If you haven't started your family yet just multply the number of kids you plan to have by two and add five. That's about how many years away you are from having the A4 Avant as your comfortable, practical family car. We're making it work, but often take my wife's 626 instead. Even then, with soccer, girl scouts, etc. on the horizon, I'm anticipating a bigger car purchase in the near future. I still espouse the Avant over an SUV/minivan, but don't fool yourself about the practicality of this choice.

Gary

to be honest I don't find the 4runner to be terribly spacious. If you guys are going to limit the number of kids to no more than two then you will be ok in the A4 for at least the next 7 to 10 years. Now three kids or tree car seats is a stretch. Also think about this, when you have infants in a car seat i actully think that it is an advantage having a somewhat smaller car as it allows you eaiser access to the child from either the driver or the passenger seat. Long story short the back seat of the A4 is small, but sufficient for two pre teen children.

I was away on business and parked my wife's car (Acura TL) at the airport while she used my new A4 for a week. This really gave her a chance to zip around in it and I had a hard time getting the keys back at the end of the week. She was thinking Pathfinder of Jeep Grand Cherokee when our Acura lease is up but we may be looking at to A4's! She now really understands why I was so nuts about the A4. When you drive it for awhile it's handling and poise on the road are fanatastic.
We just sold our Dodge Caravan because our kids are now teens and don't need to be shuttled around but for "utility" while the kids were growing up the MiniVan fit the bill.

Arch57 99.5 2.8QMS (driven by the wife today again!)

First let me say that I'd never own an SUV unless I really were in need of off-road capability or frequent deep-snow conditions. I figure I should say that to make it clear where I'm coming from. I like to drive, and an SUV offers NOTHING to the enthusiast driver. Name your automotive vice...lousy handling, lousy ride, lousy mileage...and SUVs have it. All the things we criticized in American cars 25 years ago (save perhaps reliability, which has improved) are found in SUVs. Their popularity completely mystifies me. But one thing that you hear over and over in their favor is that bigger = more crashworthy = safer. This is a myth. Let's not confuse crashworthiness with safety. Eddie, you said your wife worries about having a collision with an SUV. Would she rather survive such a collision, or AVOID it altogether? SUVs offer precious little in the way of maneuverability or handling responsiveness. So naturally SUV manufacturers must emphasize collision survival. Implicit in their message is a terrible admission: that you shouldn't count on avoiding that oncoming car when you're driving an SUV. Me, I'd rather avoid that other guy any day of the week. For that I need a vehicle that handles responsively, that's agile and maneuvers well. THAT is the definition of a safe car...one that can keep you and yours out of harm's way in the first place. Add to this the rollover statistics for SUVs, which no SUV owner wants to think about. Indeed, according to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, in 1998, the collision death rate for all SUVs was actually HIGHER than that for all cars and minivans (deaths per one million registered vehicles 1-3 years old: 143 for "all SUVs", 140 for "all cars and minivans"). Pickups were the worst of all (158 per million registered vehicles). Please consider these facts, and don't buy into the "SUVs are safer" myth.

Rick

sounds like you don't need the ground clearance or towing capabilities of an SUV so the minivan would be the practical choice.

While the A4 Avant is small, there are other wagons out there that will have as much if not more useable space than the 4-runner.

good luck

I have two - a 10 month old and a 2.8 year old ;-)

We do have a mini van but I had bought my A4 with the knowledge that I had to at least ferry the kids TO daycare.

The rear seat may be tight for adults - but for two small kids, who cares?

When we were using two rear-facing seats, I did have to move my site forward very slightly until I figured that a seat height change helped (I'm 6'). This problem is fairly uncommon since most people don't have their kids so close together - I only needed two rear-facing seats for about 3 months - it was then time to move the oldest into a forward-facing. Two forward-facing seats are no problem - I find it much easier to load them into the car than into the van.

In terms of cargo space - the A4 does surprise you - take a look. If we have the kids and need to do the groceries, we still take the A4 sedan - two kids, 2 weeks of groceries and a stroller fit into that car no problem at all. We find that we take the A4 absolutely everywhere for family outings. The only time the van is required is for those weekend trips to the cottage because we pack waaay to much.

I prefer the sedan to the Avant. I feel that it would be safer to have the car enclosed in the trunk during impact than to have it flying all around the cabin. It is fairly true that you don't fill a cargo space up past the windows in a truck (maybe because they have so much room) in which case the sedan should suit your needs just as well as the avant since the floor sdpace of the two cargo areas are identical between the avant and sedan.

If you are considering a large family I think a minivan is in order - especially if you have to ferry friends around. If you really want an SUV, I was impressed by my friend's Mercedes SUV - we got three car seats (full size evenflo suckers) in the back seat with absolutely no troubles - I'm sure you wouldn't be able to do that in a 4Runner.

I've enjoyed adding to this wealth of feedback that you have received - obviosuly a hot topic ;-)

Thanks,

Gordon Martin
98.5 2.8QMS (Santorin Blue)

It is smaller than it looks in pictures and it is smaller than it appears in the mind's eye. Concerning SUV crash with car,
I'm afraid that is correct-- in such a crash, see "relative vehicle weight" study at IIHS. It should be noted the death rate for SUV's is actually a lot higher than for cars, because single vehicle accident deaths warp the figure. If she is thinking SUV is inherently safer you all should look through the IIHS website. It could help your case.