Am very seriously considering purchasing an allroad in the next 2-3 months. Are there any significant changes planned for 2003 that would warrant waiting for the new model? For example, I saw a thread about the 4.2 in the allroad for 2003. Is this in addition to the 2.7 model or is it a replacement? Also, what can you tell me about the "new" sport mode for the tip? Does it help eliminate the lag that some tip owners and reviewers complained about? Any input appreciated. TIA.

Mike

new sport mode does nothing for lag. I believe it makes things worse. used to be that you could put the car into a specific gear (4th) and get better results. The sport mode selects the gears for you.

will have more amenities without all that annoying tip-turbo lag that these guys bitch about. The V8 in non-sport mode (eg. my '01 4.2 A6) can have a pause (tip-pause) when mashing...the new sport-mode 4.2s and the S6 do not have this pause...much quicker and crisper acceleration and shifting.

Just my opinion, I don't own an allroad...but if you are willing to pay the premium for the V8, I'd wait.
Rumor is that the 2.7T will be decontented significantly to lower its base price to be more competitive with the Cross-Country...of course, you will be able to load it up. I suspect the base for the 4.2 allroad will be pushing $50k, the 2.7T will be around $37-38k if decontented significantly.

In general, I would actually prefer the manual tranny, especially given the tip/turbo/lag issue and assuming I could find a 6sp somewhere. Any thoughts from 6 speed owners (or those who decided against the 6sp) would be welcome.

Mike

If you want extra luxury/smoothness, wait for the V8.

On the other hand, I'm getting a 2002 2.7T Allroad because I don't wait the extra weight or worse gas mileage of a V8, but I do want to hear and feel the biturbo engine.

50 mph in 2nd gear. In 3rd gear your smoking other cars!

Most important, you have engine braking, as you know.

I currently have an S4, live in the Boston area and it's a different car when it's hot and humid out. The 2.7t really shines at higher altitudes.
I will most likely be replacing the S4 with a V8 allroad at the end of the year.

just ask the guys on here who regularly blow by the SUV's as they head up the mountainside. The turbos are immune to the thin air, but the 4.2 won't be.

There is a slight delay in throttle response with the manual tranny but it appears to be much less of an issue than on the Tip. Frankly, you get used to it after a while and its kind of fun when the boost kicks in.

I just like turbos, what can I say =)

They inject some fun factor into the car IMO. The V8 is stronger but stodgier.

You are right though, those few really hot days we had killed the S4 engine, but those days are rare.

If you haven't driven an allroad with the 2.7T engine and the 6speed manual, may I suggest you take a long long long test drive. I am on my third Audi with a 4.2 liter V8 engine and a 5 spd tiptronic -- and, as much as I love the engine and the whole Audi "experience" -- I would not want one of these great cars with the current version of the tiptronic trans -- they are not much fun and not terribly inspiring (I have not driven the S8, and I must, in all fairness say "excluding the S6" which I have driven).

The three V8's I have had are a 1997 A8 (which I modified with an S8 suspension, a 2000 A6 4.2 with the 17" wheel/tire option and a 2001 A6 4.2 with the full sports package) -- all good, no very good cars. All would have been incredible cars with manual transmissions.

Don't bother with the allroad 4.2, IMHO -- save your thousands of dollars and put some upgrades (both performance and "comfort") into a 6spd manual 2.7T allroad. You'll be glad you did.

Remember -- test drive the 6spd for at least an hour or two before you write this suggestion off as the rantings of a lunatic (Hey, I resemble that remark!)!

I like the chipped 2.7 - have driven 4.2 A6 quite a bit by way of comparison. Also note I have Tip in my ar (01)and have never had a problem. Love the car.

Obviously more cylinders/ larger capacity, but the turbo gets richened up a lot under boost which has a mileage cost. I suspect that the V8 will have taller gearing too which will probably improve its numbers. Turbos are tons o fun but aren't the economy choice.

The tip turbo lag -- or the "symptoms" of it have been the topic of several posts -- about the A6 4.2 and the A8 4.2. While I consider my 2001 A6 4.2 with tip a very good performer, I submit that the computer on the tip with the 4.2 tries soooo hard to make things smooth that some of the same things that are said about the 2.7T with tip may also be "inherent" in the transmission "programming" -- in other words, as we say in software development -- "it's not a bug, it's a feature!"

This feature is virtually absent from the 6spd version.

My 4.2 is, I think, remarkably "economical" in spite of my comments about MY PERSONAL preference for a 6spd manual. In other words, based on my Audi 4.2 V8 experience, I do not believe they are overly thirsty.

I cannot comment about the 2.7T, but I ordered a 2003 allroad with this engine and the manual trans.

10,000 miles after I get it, I'll have formed an opinion that may be worth the full $.02.

you're a lunatic at all :) . I prefer a manual shifter....the convenience of an auto is outweighed by the advantages in performance, economy, control, and just plain involvement (fun) of a stick in most driving situations outside of city traffic, IMHO. The points made by other posters about the 2.7t engine breathing better in the mountains are also valid.

I appreciate the objective advice coming from someone who has owned V8/tip equipped Audis. Thanks.

Mike

One dealer suggested that a 4.2 similarly equipped to a 2.7t (w/ tip) would only cost $5k more. This seems a reasonable amount to pay for someone who wants the more luxurious feel of a V8.

As a 2002 allroad owner with Tiptronic I can say that, while sport mode does not make the lag problem worse, it also does not improve on it at all.

It is quite fun, though. I keep my car in sport mode pretty much all of the time because it gives me much better on-the-go throttle response than standard mode.

Back to the lag problem, referring back to a post someone made a while back mentioning that, according to an Audi tech, the lag problem has to do with a delay in the throttle cutoff release after the brake pedal is lifted. When I first read that I thought it was bunk because I could have sworn that I experienced lag even when rolling out of idle speed, but after paying closer attention to when lag occurs it seems that this may indeed be the source of the problem.

the S6 has no lag at any time sport mode or not. The sport mode in the 2.7T allroad would leave one with just the turbo-lag. If you don't have it...you are lucky...every one I drove (ok, it was only 4 or 5 different ones) had it...not so bad really.

you are likely to be correct...it doesn't look like the 2.7T price will drop much and the 4.2 will probably come in around $47k (base)...just a guess.

much less to no "lag" when in sport-mode. Additionally, I submit, based on anecdotal experience (others) that the 4.2 engine will be more reliable than the 2.7T. It is definitely smoother and has a more pleasing sound (to me).

Gas mileage won't be a factor, I suspect they will be VERY similar, especially the way the allroad 2.7T is geared...it doesn't get near the mileage of the A6 2.7T.

My best suggestion for Mike is to wait and REALLY drive both and see which one you like most. A few thousand dollars may be insignificant. Killing a warranty by chipping, etc may or may not be something one is willing to do.

i.e. Can one drive the A6 2.7t and the A6 4.2, to get an idea of how the allroad 2.7t will differ from the allroad 4.2?

As no one here has driven an allroad 4.2, what I'm really asking is - How does the A6's 2.7t w/tip compare to the allroad's 2.7t w/tip? If similar, than the comparison to the 4.2 may work.

Now I'm curious... =)

I have, and I have driven the S6 with said transmission and the 3.0 A6 q and the A4 1.8T with the sport mode tip. I mostly liked it in the 3.0 A6 -- and something about the S6 is so entirely different, I put it in another class.

Sport mode seems to "simply" keep the transmission in each gear until a higher RPM shift point, which with the more limited torque of the 3.0 engine is a good thing. I see no "big" difference when this transmission is paired with the 4.2 in a 2002 A6. I have driven 2.7T A6's with the "old" tip.

I am just "tired" of automatics -- they seem (to me) to rob the car of so much -- fun, performance, control, economy (although this is a mostly false statement since I tend to be less economical when I drive a manual) and fun (the thing so nice, I included it twice).

My wife calls my 2001 A6 4.2 (with sport package) an "old man's car" -- which, even tho I am 51, pisses me off (probably because like all jokes has just a tad bit too much truth in it).

So, every time I get a chance to drive her 225HP TT coupe -- well, I "lust in my heart" (sorry Jimmy) for a manual transmission. The way I have it figured, we are coming to the "end of an era" -- manual transmissions are dying. 6spd tips, CVT's and other even higher tech transmissions will (or virtually have) killed the manual (here in the US, at least).

Most of my friends (ranging in age from late twenties to mid fifties) either can't or won't drive sticks and, unless I cajole them into driving one, think they will not like it.

The few that I have convinced to test drive manual transmissions have indeed purchased cars with them -- so, like I said, I am tired of not having one and feel this new 2003 allroad may represent one of few remaining chances to "row my own."

Did I mention that shifting a manual is FUN?!?

The maxed out 2.7T allroad will not have a power activated tilt/telescope steering column, 18"wheels and perhaps some other more luxury features -- perhaps -- see an earlier post, regarding the 4.2 allroad order sheet. The differences seem to be the engine, a possible power assisted steering column and the wheels. My assumption is that the 4.2 compared to a maxed out 2.7T will be $5,000 more. I would pay that if it came with a stick shift -- but without, I say "pass."

One last point, since I will almost certainly NOT keep this car 50,000 miles, I would not appreciate the potential reliability improvements that come with the 4.2.

OK so that wasn't the last point. The 4.2 is a great engine, and I LOVE the growl it makes at full throttle. You will neither waste money if you acquire a 4.2 nor will you have anything but a very good (and if you like automatics, fantastic) car. My reasons for wanting the 2.7T are solely the manual transmission. I have no quarrel with anyone who prefers automatics -- heck, I'd even ride in one (remember I have one now :)!)

I agree regarding automatics and sticks...this is the first car I bought since 1984 with an automatic...but honestly, part of me doesn't mind as much with Audis because I hate the feel of the Audi manual transmission...especially the bigger the car is...it would be annoying...now just put a smooth 6-speed from BMW or Honda (I know it can't handle the torque) and I'm all over it. For me the V8 allroad would've been what I would have gotten for myself 18 months ago had it been available...especially with a stick (I know, not available now either)...dammit, each one of these Audis is just one ingredient from perfection! (stick)

I don't really feel like the car is sporty enough to get all that much out of a manual. The car is in the 7+ second range 0-60, it's heavy and it just does not handle like a performance car. I have a blast shifting my chipped S4 but it's not even close to the same feeling in the ar. I think I'm going with the V8. If I were at high altitudes maybe I'd reconsider but in Boston the 2.7t is not the best engine in high humidity.

The allroad 2.7T IS available with the full-paint option in every color -- cost about $1500 msrp.

I ordered a 2003 burgundy red pearl 2.7T stick with all options except rear seat plus full paint option. Audi of America said fine -- they rejected my pearl white order (also full paint), although in the past you could order pearl white on any Audi if you were willing to pay.

Currently, the answer on that point is nah baby naaaaa!

Pear red with Ecru interior (or gray) might be pretty spanky tho. . . .and full paint option, of course!

I find the 6 spd on the Allroad is great, and makes the car feel more sporty. I test drove both the 6 spd and the auto, and chose the 6 spd. I also find the 6 spd on the Allroad a lot nicer than the S4's 6 speed (at least the S4 that I test drove - not sure if that one was representative). This car is definitely not as sporty as the S4, but its still plenty sporty enough, and a 6 speed makes it feel like you're a little more involved in the driving. Anyway, I guess this is a personal issue which every person will differ on.

Regards,
T1WRX

If you like manual transmissions, get the 6 spd. You will not be dissapointed. If your dealer doesn't have one for you to test drive, try out the regular 6 spd A6 2.7T. Although the gearing is a little different on the Allroad, the two feel very similar. I also agree that you feel the lag less in the 6 spd.

Good luck with your decision.

If anything the Turbo is better in humid conditions. Humidity is usually associated with low barometric pressure which is where a turbo shows a big advantage over normally aspirited motors. The reason turbos are better at high altitudes is for the same reason. As you go high, barometric pressure gets lower (called the pressure lapse rate). So a hot humid day in NY is just like a sunny day at Vail from a pressure standpoint. In both cases my turbo will kick your non turbo's but. And as for the 6-speed, it's not wasted in this car, especially if you drive on a lot of country roads.

Is not turbo friendly. Dry cold air is the best. This was always my impression and my experience with my S4.
As for the 6 speed, I never said it was wasted- I just said FOR ME, I don't feel like the car is sporty enough to want a manual. FOR ME, the auto, especially with the V8 is more suitable to the cars style and purpose. Of course that is just ME. If I were coming from say, a Jeep or an Explorer, I think I would find the allroad very sporty. I am coming from a car that is much more sporty so you see, it is all relative from a personal standpoint.

It doesn't feel very sporty to me. I'm sure it feels sporty compared to the tip allroad or a Jeep or Explorer though. It's all relative I guess. If I had to have the 2.7t engine, I would consider the stick only so that I could wring all the power out of it. With the V8 though, I think I would prefer the auto. I think it fits better for the type of vehicle and its intended purpose. But hey, who am I to say what's best for other people? I would never have guessed there would be a market for the Pontiac Asstec.... :->

I am very interested to know What was the RPM when you are doing 50 mph?

My wife has the 2001 A6Q tip 2.7T and I have the 2002 Allroad tip 2.7T. Her A6 specs out faster and feels lighter and quicker. It's not carrying as much weight. It just depends upon your needs.

I use the Allroad for skiing and towing ATC's out to the desert and it replaced a ML320. Don't really miss the ML320 except for increased ground clearance with towing (but it was always in the shop)