Just borrowed a friends new g-tech pro and performed a few quick runs.<br>Don't flame me for the results, these are the figures the g-tech pro gave me.<br>14.28sec 14.29sec 14.12sec also 2 dud runs 14.83 followed by 15.2.<br>The dud runs i attribute to turbo/intercooler warming up.<br>Temp was about 69F on a level road with no octane boost.<br>My Car setup 1.8TQM Wett K-04, Bosch Silver Spark plugs F2CS<br>Turbo Back Exhaust System (HiFlo cat under car) with AZK rear muffler, K&N filter<br>AZK 50mm lower springs with Koni shocks.<br>Next on the list a Modified exhaust manifold and larger intercooler.<br>maybe might be able to break into 13's wishful thinking!<br>But first runs getting figures like above with practice i should be able to break the 14sec mark<br>without further mods, have drag raced years ago. Well on this g-tech anyway.

Wow, Nice setup. How much Horsepower are you putting out? How much would it cost for me for a simular setup? And finally what were the trap speeds? I'm not sure if the G-Tech measures 1/4 mile Trap speeds. Email me directly if you like. <p>

,

Well don't let people say you can't do this to your car it is not a car for that.. blah blah blah.. Think about it... the reason people think the car does not run good at the drags is because they bought simple things and yes the car got faster but from 15.5's to 12's is going take some mods... The simple KO4 + Chip + Exhaust + filter will get you a 14 sec sedan.. (not bad).. BUT some things to know about drag racing turbo imports cars (i've done this way to long with old Z turbo cars) <p>1st) goota loose the cats... pressure behind the turbine must be nil.. <p>2nd) reprogram the ecu to allow you to remove cats. (hard core tunners can / will do this) (odb2 thing)<p>3) bigger turbo.. (not K04) most likely a garret or a mitsubishi unit..<p>4) larger intercooler.. (front mount)<p>5) injectors and re-mapped ecu.. I think the car can run high 12's (in good weather)<p>6) clutch maybe an issue.. <p>7) I think the Quattro is stronger than the Eclipse GSX setup.. so maybe we can avoid so many drive line failures.. <p>oh well a Mid-13 maybe possible with the stock intercooler and a bigger turbo than the K04 + no cats.. <p>later.... <p>

..

..

(nt)

Yup, and reads a few mph fast too, but it all depends on your suspension. His is modified so he may not get quite as much squat as a stock 1.8T, so he may only be maybe .2 off or so... For you "M3 killer's" out there, I can give you a benchmark of 14.0 at 103 mph on a G-tech when my M3 was stock. You're getting close... :)<p>Brad Franklin

Ray: Im a little tired of your constant negativity towards modified 1.8T's Just cause you used to own an 80's 911 doesnt mean you are the new god of engine dynamics. And since you asked, the K04 chip uses the same boost as the 1.0bar chip. Since no 1bar chipped cars have "grenaded" I dont see where your concerns are here either. SM<br>

(nt)

Well at a Mitsubishi tech session with Corky Bell (Mech Eng)(PE) he did a presenation on engine durability etc etc.. more or less what it boils down to is that horsepower is not going to break your motor.. In fact there is more load from the intertia of the motor than your horsepower output.. Thus over-revving is much more dangerous than pumping up the horsepower. Dentonation is where you must be careful.. Since the A4 is a 9.5 high compression turbocharged motor one must be even more careful on keep air/fuel and timing in check.. Thus on 100+ deg summer days I would not run 19 psi boost on street gas.. even with my twin turbo Z I was limited by detonation at 17 psi on 100 deg + days with 93 octane and that car is at an 8.5 or 8.7 compression ratio.... May the boost be with you my children!!! ahahhahaha.. swEEt..

Ray, I have played with cars for years.<br>Blown up motors, diffs, trannies etc.<br>If I blow it Up I will only rebuild it better and Faster. Bid Deal.<br>If every one thinks like you we should also take out all friction modifiers in oil.<br>Go back to single barrel Carbs etc etc.<br>A porsche would most likely not be around, arn't they just "Highly modified VW Bugs"!<p>The Next car I buy will be a "Un-modified 911 Turbo" I will get the Turbo's removed<br>Fuel inject taken off etc. etc.<br>Have a Nice Day.

RMZ: I find that at lower temps (under 50F) I must turn down the boost as well. Did the ZX perform the same in colder temps? Why doesnt the MAF still work to correct in this situation. Once again, the Profec allowing to adjust for the change in season. I also find that the colder denser air makes up for the lower boost level. SM

rmz, <p> Can you run that temp and detonation with respect to compression ratio again, please... I am interested in more info in this area for the A4<br>You can e-mail me to save bandwidth...<br>Thanks,<p>Cris<br>Hoping to get the K04 next year, sometime,....when I have the money.<br>

<br>I have it and think that the intro / physics lesson is worth it's weight in gold.<p>My 86 5KTQ has 7.5CR, 12psi hybrid and 200K miles (daily driver), will change IC to single pass.<p>My 83 UrQ has 7.0CR and 10psi (should be 12-14), eventually much more (1-2yrs)<p>I run a Halmeter and always watch out for pinging.<p>Todd W

Well with the turbo Z as soon as temps dropped around the 70-50.. the car became wicked fast I saw the voltage on my mass air sensor jump up and injector duty cycles went to the max.. This was at the same boost.. (16-17 psi).. Turbo Z's were good around 12-13 to 1 air fuel ratio in 65 deg air without any dentonation.. Now if it is 100+ degs out and I ran 17 psi I would hear detonation... strange when I it seems that I had enough fuel.. but dentonation is caused by heat.. 1) Hot spots in the combustion chamber<br>2) a lean fuel mixture<br>3) high air intake temp (usually caused by a small turbo set beyond its operating range.)<br>4) high air intake temp (caused by high restriction intercooler / low efficiency)<p>When it is 65 deg outside you will notice not only is your intake temp much lower, but your engine cooling system is able to scrub more heat faster, intercoolers are staying much much cooler.. thus you may run a leaner fuel mixture in cooler weather and make some xtra power because the heat issue is less abrupt in the winter... in the summer actually you can run more fuel (a very rich mixture to help cool the intake air charge..) If you size a turbo to help reduce the intake air charge by sizing it correctly for the amout of air you may need and choosing a turbine that will lower your exahaust back pressure you may reap the benefits of running a bit higher boost year round (granted you have a decent intercooler....) with turbo engines == HEAT = BAD! ehheh Hmmm.. With the A4 an EGT guage may be your best friend.. (Exhaust Gas Temperature) you can measure how hot you are running.. the leaner you go the hotter the temp.. Some interesting notes..<p>When upgrading to a bigger turbo I frequetly notice EGT's drop around 200-300 degrees. (at the same boost level) this means that at the same boost my (turbo chargers compressor is more efficient and generating less heat from the compression of the intake air) Pretty much you want to run around 1200-1400 deg (if you place the EGT sensor after the turbine) and for every foot reduce the operating range by 100 degs.. (this is a general rule of thumb) If you are getting to hot EGT's you need to begin looking what's up.. is it fuel / turbo / or intercooler.. If anyone ever makes a thicker head gasket for the A4 it would be awsome.. Lower the compression to around 8.9 (I believe the 225 HP TT engine is 8.9 as well.. ) Most likely they did this to make SURE NO detontation at higher boost and so they can keep some decent ignition timing.. (Please also note that as you retard ignition timing too far (inorder to fight detonation EGT's will begin to rise again!!) thus just retarding timing won't fix detonation.... I've read every engine's output is more or less limited by detonation.. NOW if you run 108+ octance race gas HEHEHE the cool thing is that the detonation limit is raised significantly! Final quick note.. Z example..<p>Z Twin turbo 91 5sp: (sold because now I have a 1.8TQ 5spd)<p>Exhaust (trust)<br>no cats <br>kevlar clutch<br>k&n air filter(open type)<br>boost set a 17-18 psi<br>108+ octane race gas<br>2 drag radials<p>105 Deg Texas day at drag strip<br>12.7 @ 110 MPH ..<p>heheh the car would not have survived on street gas.. ehhehehe.. my A4 only 400 miles so far so tuning is limited (for now .. ehhehe bimmer's beware hahahha just joking..(my friend has a supercharged 97 M3.. gotta hide from him for now..)<br>

Ray is giving his opinion about (over) stressing the engine. If and when these people with heavily modified 1.8T's make it well over 30,000 miles, they can come back and tell us that their car hasn't blown up yet.<p>I think Ray's point is that these engines do have a limit. Some people on here will tell you that Audi is building indestructible bullet-proof engines, and that no amount of mods will reduce the engine's useful life. Lots of people would like to believe that, but most of us can't afford to be wrong with something like the engine in our daily (and perhaps only) driver.<p>At this point, the people that are doing heavy tuning have provided no more data to back up their claims than Ray has. We're all in the dark here until someone does the work and takes their car the distance or blows it up trying.<p>You apparently don't mind blowing up an engine and rebuilding it. An opposing opinion would be to err on the side of caution, and not build your engine to questionable limits. Is that negativity?<p>Then again, someone has to go too far so that we all learn how far too far is. Any volunteers? ;-)<p>Drew S.<br>

<br>Nice runs with the Wet! I just got my 250 Hoppen kit in and running. I had a 200 Hoppen which was a huge difference, but this 250 kit just keeps on pulling. This 1.8 is just a little 107 cubes, so if anyones looking for the American kick in pants with the 250, it isn,t going to happen. This is horsepower not torque. This 250 kit is awsome, I love watching the tach just keep on going with power right up to 7 grand. Now I just have to learn to shift keeping the turbo spooled up.

Oops! Just kidding. But speaking of going "too far" and then some:<p>Last weekend we went to Route 66 Dragway, and there were quite a few interesting cars besides the Pro Stockers. Everybody could run as often as time allowed, from 1:00 to 9:00pm, for $10 one-time admission. It was cool! And, we were the only Team with a Porsche as the parts car to hold the slicks! ;-)<p>The most impressive guy (to me) was this dude in a '89 (or that model line) Mustang LX, lots of rust, with Drag slicks (which most serious cars had). So in the line before the staging area, where everyone waits, we (my friend had his '71 Mach1 with a stroked 429CJ, B&M 6-speed and 225+ Nitrous) walked over and asked "Whaddaya got? 302?". He popped the hood, revealing a very empty engine compartment. "More like a lawnmower engine . . . . . is that . . .? Could it be . . ? A 2.3L four?". Yep! A 2.3L four with a T-Bird Turbo bolted on, complete with wire hangers, duct tape and lots more rust.<p>Oddly enough, the throttle body looked, well, "racy" and new, as did the control box and PC connector on it. "Must have a mean Turbo, tranny and clutch and gears, eh?" "Nope, stock 2.73 open rear with stock non-stall Mustang OD Automatic!". What? Sure enough, looks and sounds all stock, and the burnout was definitely one-sided!<p>That puppy ALMOST broke into the 12's . . . . . what the hell? Off the line, he was like a wet rag. No noise, no spin, no smoke show, but a good reaction time (575 or close to that). The other car always got way ahead (new Camaros, Mustang Cobras), but just about a 1/16th down the track you would hear a lous "Whoooossshhhh" and that puppy looked like it was kicked in the hind end by a Budweiser Clydesdale! ET was in the low 13s, usually, and he trounced every one of the stock "Muscle Cars". Whoa!<p>Later I confimed what I thought: "Yep, we started by building about 18psi, and then we installed a gauge and blocked off the wastegate completely. Last run it pegged it past 30psi . . . . wheeee!". That would explain the funky steel tubing feeding the intake, and all the high-end fittings on that plumbing! Turns out, he runs a junkjard, and pieced this thing together from free parts, so he doesn't care if he blows it up.<p>But if a stock (but well cooled and lubed) Ford turbo with twin HUGE (!) intercoolers can pump out 30psi (unless he was kidding) without exploding, I'd like to see what the Audi setup can do. ;-) Anyone have a junkyard full of A4s?!?<p>Big O . . . with Little Boost at 14psi!

The pressure is at about 13.5 to 14 psi upto 5,500 rpm<br>When it gets to about 6000 rpm, pressure is at about 11psi.<br>at about 6500 rpm pressure is around 9 psi.<p>P.S. This is not the standard Wett 235 chip (that come with their K-04 turbo kit), due to our local fuel differences<br>turbo/pressure and timing have been altered to eliminate pinging or fuel detonation.<br>Thanks to Wetterauer for customizing this for me.<br>

For anyone wanting to weigh up spending dollars versus performance gain, i personally believe a standing start 1/4 mile run is a very good guide.<br>If a company advertised a new Air Filter with 30HP gain would you buy it?<br>If the Air Filter was installed in a car and a 1/4 mile was run, and only 0.05 sec ET<br>improvement was made, I would question the 30HP. If 0.1 to 0.15 gain was acheived, it would be worth every cent.<br>1/4 Mile runs test Torque and Top end HP, best overall result for engine Mods.<br>Better than a dyno in my opinion, how ever a dyno is very good for a initial setup.<p>My 0.02c worth

Lucas, no problem. I just would like folks know that boosting a Turbo results in shorter life - lots of folks are concerned about reliability. I know I am - it's main reason I avoid turbos like the plague.<p>Good luck; hope yours is truly trouble-free<br>

i got the hoppen kit over the summer...and i put a boost gauge in my car as well...to see the boost ratings...but I see that the boost drops dramatically after shifting...and almost goes to stock 7psi beyond 6000...since I don't have my car with me at school, i don't have a chance to learn the shiftpoints. But if you know them, and know of times that you've run...please let me know.

It is upsetting to see A4 owners flame hard-core tuners for modifying their engines... Hay, they bought the car... it's faster... louder... and more exotic... if you don't like that type of thing then don't do it to your car... plain and simple. Most hard-core tuners (usually us young guys) think non tuners are lame... just like in everything... the extremist and the hobbyist see things differently... practicality comes with age... ask my father. <p>I choose not to tweak with this car... I've done it in the past... blew some trannys... NOSed a GS-R engine... blew it... I had my fun and I have some great James Dean/American Graffit type stories to tell the kids I'll have in another 5-10 years. =)<p>21yr old punk kid<p>'98 2.8QM H&R, 18' Hamann Monoblock II (next week)

By all means, do your hardcore tuning. My concern is that amateur tuners may read a lot of stuff here and not realize the risks that they are taking by following the trail blazed by others. There are some people here that have saved their money and skimped on features to buy this car. Then they saved money for tuning it. I'd hate to see one of these cars blow up on someone that didn't realize the potential outcome of doing some mods.<p>By the way, these are not flames. These are words of caution. Don't consider all opposing viewpoints as flames. I come here for discussion and debate.<p>Drew S.<br>

<br>They advertise in EC I believe. It is all about the physics of turbocharging and the techniques and the tradeoffs. It specifically covers extra engine load from turbocharging, and warns against water injection.<p>I'm sure that you could get it at Borders, etc.<p>Todd W

Ray did you know that there are a number of K-03 failures that have been reported.<br>Do you know have any K-04 failures? granted there are not as many k-04 turbos about as K-03.<br>Every manufacturer does make comprimises in the name of saving a dollar.<br>Here in Australia the rocket to buy is a Subaru WRX, 13.8 sec 1/4 mile from the showroom floor! They use a thin plastic tubing (Similar to A4 Air intake duct only thinner) as Intercooler to Throttle body piping that is located 4-5 inches from Turbo.<br>How long to these last with a sunday driver? (Not long, heaps of warranty claims).<br>If I bought one of these cars, there would be heaps i would modify and I would end up with a far more reliable car.<br>The real waring should be is pushing items to excceed design limits.<br>If you want performance and use it, modify the items neccessary with quality parts<br>with tested results.<br>Porsche, Audi and every manufacturer have lots of warranty claims from cars that have not one single mod performed and driven lightly.<br>If this was not the case then why would a manufacturer ever offer a warranty or on the other hand offer a 10 year plus warranty.<p>Another point is why do they not have "totally stock" endurance race events, where the only addition is a roll cage for safty. 60-70% cars would not finnish from mechanical failures (cheap and underated parts) and the other cars would become death traps for the driver.

Lucas, you raised some good points, and a lot of this is my contention. A lot of folks to me are just going the "cheap" route - throw in a chip and instantly get 50 more HP - no worry about additional cooling needed, adding an external engine cooler, will the head gasket handle it, additional stress on drivetrain, etc. Also, added boost effectively increases compression ratio, with need for higher octane gas- maybe higher octane than can be obtained at a commercial station.<p>I am the type that keeps a car for 100,000+ miles, and I got this reliably on my old Coupe Quattro (driven hard) and my old '84 Porsche Carrera (5-7 track events a year) - no engine problems with either one. I would like to hear from folks with high-mileage Turbos - especially modified ones - what their experience has been. Personally, I doubt if they have not put major bucks into car (my experience with Porsche Turbos, like 930 and 944). The stock Audi 200 apparently is a good installation/implemetation, from what I have heard, but I would still think major mods would chew into reliability.<p>Re your last contention on "stock car" racing. As far as I know , this does exist in SCCA, with limited mods allowed in certain classes. From racers I have talked to, reliability/safety is NOT a concern; if it was, all of these amateurs would either be broke or in the hospital.<br>

I was just reading the Dec. issue of "European Car", and what Audi did to tweak the 1.8 from 150 to 225 HP included;<p>Twin intercoolers<br>Larger turbo with 14.7 psi boost<br>revised intake/exhaust manifolds<br>stronger rods and pistons <br>uprated rod end bearings<br>lower compression ratio (8.9:1)<p>Also included revised flywheel and clutch<p>The "stock" engine is 180 HP, achieved by:<p>revised Motronic system<br>higher boost<br>revised exhaust<p>From what the factory did, 180 HP from just a .chip change might be able to be achieved reliably. A 200+ mod on an otherwise stock engine I think is asking for trouble.<p><br>