I've searched and seen some conflicting information on the 2.0t break in. My dealer told me the following: 1) the 2.0t is actually run through a break in at the factory 2) at which point the oil gets changed prior to shipment 3) he went on to say that as part of PDI when they get the car, they go through a fresh oil change on the car as well. While this isn't all related to break in, it seemed more logical if the engine was actually "pre broken in." I've also read across some posts to vary RPMs, don't go over 4,000 RPMs, and don't chip for the first 1,000 miles (unless APR due to it being just like stock... fire retardant outfit is on =) ).
Questions:
1) does my dealer's claimed factory break sound consistent with what you have heard?
2) if yes to #1 above, i would think the rest is a non-issue?
3) in no to #1 above (or in the absense of info), does everyone agree with the rpm/chip comments?
Thanks!
danham
10-02-2006, 01:19 PM
... that they can do the equivalent of 1000 miles of letting the rings and walls and all the other metal-to-metal places in the engine get well acquainted prior to putting the car on the boat.
I have no inside knowledge about this, but I'd be very skeptical and would treat the car to a proper 1k-mile break-in if it were mine (vary RPMs, favor compression braking, rpm and throttle limits gradually increased, etc.)
You've got nothing to lose by doing this and everything to gain, especially if your dealer is shoveling BS at you.
Avant-agedS4
10-02-2006, 01:23 PM
April
10-02-2006, 01:42 PM
broken-in at the factory. It would take far too many engine test cells (engine dynos) to accomplish this, given how many cars Audi makes.
Now on some exclusive high performance models (think R8), I can see this happening.
My suggestion to people is a slightly more detailed one than you'll find in the owner's manual. Vary your rpms. Never give the car more than 3/4 throttle, and tip in gradually when doing so, rather than wacking it open. After the first few hundred miles when you should try to stay under about 4000/5000 rpms, gradually increase the rpm range, gently probing the temporary limit and then backing off, rather than staying there.
My car runs stronger than ever and burns no oil to speak of at 20K miles. No chip.
Avant-agedS4
10-02-2006, 01:53 PM
April
10-02-2006, 02:01 PM
vplaza
10-02-2006, 02:02 PM
;-)
MuRaN0Daddy
10-02-2006, 03:10 PM
Avant-agedS4
10-02-2006, 03:22 PM
If you were referring to the S4, sadly is is gone (but to a good home).
The '07 A3, S-Line (6mt), Lava, open, cold, tech gets delivered tomorrow at 4:00PM Seattle time!!!
MuRaN0Daddy
10-02-2006, 03:49 PM
I like to be present for every delivery. I bring 3 hot chicks w me. I hope thats OK.
Avant-agedS4
10-02-2006, 04:09 PM
Is it bad when you buy mods before you take delivery?
MuRaN0Daddy
10-02-2006, 05:34 PM
Audi Loyalist
10-02-2006, 10:44 PM
Previous link from the A4 forum that you might find useful. Very complimentary to April's comments. BTW, nice ride!<ul><li><a href="http://forums.audiworld.com/a4b7/msgs/47957.phtml">Linky</a></li></ul>
judgegavel
10-03-2006, 04:24 AM
varying rpm's for the first 2k mi.
April
10-03-2006, 09:04 AM
I kinda figure that hundreds if not thousands of engineers over many years have figured this out better than a single guy who has done a wonderful job of promoting his point of view. Yeah, he builds and races bikes, but that has a different set of priorities from street cars. Remember he's rebuilding those engines once or twice a race season, and the goal is to have max power as soon as possible.
Here's another (motorcycle boased again) point of view
http://www.rc51.org/breakin.htm
And a magazine article:
"Motoman claims his procedure works on all four-stroke engines, though he admits that most of the 300 engines he's tested power air-cooled motorcycles and snowmobiles.
Could beating on a brand-new car engine boost its performance? Are manufacturers simply hesitant to recommend a full-throttle break-in out of fear of drivers exceeding speed limits?
For answers, I rang up long-time GM engine guru Dave Lancaster, and he agrees that in smaller, low-cost air-cooled engines (which expand and contract more as temperatures change) such a technique might indeed pay off. But the microfinished bores, high-tension rings, and precision-build tolerances in today's automotive engines yield excellent ring sealing from new, so any change in power output attributable to such a radical procedure would be miniscule if measurable at all. He notes that power and fuel economy generally improve throughout the break-in period as friction diminishes in all moving parts. Ford's engine durability specialist Mike Herr concurs with all the above as do the engine R&D experts at Honda.
Motoman counters by arguing that the fine machining and high-precision build quality of modern engines serve only to shorten the window of opportunity to "seat the rings," making it even more important to do the heavy-duty accels right off the bat. But if his procedure works, why don't manufacturers perform it in the plant on a dyno, especially on performance engines like the handbuilt Corvette LS7 and supercharged Northstar? They would, but Lancaster and Herr confirm the only engines that get such treatment are those undergoing torture-testing during development to ensure that the Motomans of the world won't ring up big warranty claims.
My final problem with these Web claims is that they seem unverifiable. Since no two engines--especially smaller, cheaper ones--produce equivalent power fresh off the assembly line, it's impossible to attribute small performance differences to a break-in procedure. So it's your choice: Follow your owner's manual recommendations (which usually entail gentle driving at varying engine speeds and no towing for between 300 and 1000 miles); or pursue Web logic in hopes of gaining a racer's edge of added performance."<ul><li><a href="http://www.motortrend.com/features/editorial/112_0603_technologue_race_performance/">source for quote</a></li></ul>
Audi Loyalist
10-03-2006, 11:40 AM
That being the major caveat, some of the principles are quite valid. From personal experience, I've been very pleased with the level of engine efficiency I've had with several engines over the years (34-36mpg presently for the 2.0T, hand calculated). Like you, I'm not burning any oil either.
It's never a good idea to dismiss an opinion so quickly, given the small sample sizes we've detailed. Isn't it surprising that the "hundreds if not thousands of engineers" have not come to an accurate peer-reviewed consensus yet? (sorry, it's the MD/PhD in me). Perhaps If they did, we certainly wouldn't be discussing it ad nauseum.
I do, however, appreciate your point of view...and your resourcefulness :)
April
10-03-2006, 12:16 PM
leak down cylinder test results, and they were broken in the conservative way. Now that they are past a quarter of a million miles on original block, heads, and internals, they still see the desert race track a few times a year, and see redline every time the oil is warmed. They barely use any oil either (1/4 to 1/2 quart of full weekend on the track and driving 250 miles each way to the track).
I'm treating my A3 the same way, even though it's a lease, and most people wouldn't bother taking that kind of care.
Works for me.
Avant-agedS4
10-03-2006, 12:50 PM
Audi Loyalist
10-03-2006, 01:01 PM
Make it randomized, blinded to the principal investigators (not vehicle operators), adequately powered (statistically) and with a sufficient sample size in each group. Make the endpoints of the study engine efficiency, power, oil consumption, etc. over a 1, 5, and possibly even 10 year period. Allow for peer review, and you'd have the ideal end all answer to what is essentially anecdotal reports (high quality at that).
On a personal note, You are quite rare to treat your lease so well. Personally, I'd be spending gobbles of time in your Alpha!!
Audi Loyalist
10-03-2006, 01:02 PM
You'll have a hard time concentrating at work thinking about your new baby in the parking lot for months to come...I know I did
April
10-03-2006, 01:14 PM
April
10-03-2006, 01:23 PM
Yes, I know that caring for a lease like you own it, is rare, but since the rest of my cars get that treatment, I'm not going to change for this one.
The A3 was leased to save miles on the Alfa. Strangely I've been driving the Alfa the last week or so, and having a ball.
BTW, your A4 looks tastefully modded. Toying with A3 ownership?
Audi Loyalist
10-03-2006, 02:12 PM
We're keeping the A4, but we need another vehicle with some utility (especially since my Wife and I will be working in different parts of town once my fellowship begins)
I haven't modded the A4's engine yet, but once the warranty is up I'll put in a KO4, a different exhaust +/- testpipe. Have you modded yours? I noticed the RS4 reps...very nice!
As of yet, any mods are just superficial (matte mirror caps)
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/114251/picture_010.jpg">
One mad lookin' dash
<img src="http://www.vikingautobrokers.com/photos/inventory/1975_mercedes_benz_450_sel/1975_mercedes_450_sel%20045.jpg">
Some things German don't change
<img src="http://www.vikingautobrokers.com/photos/inventory/1975_mercedes_benz_450_sel/1975_mercedes_450_sel%20048.jpg">
April
10-03-2006, 06:10 PM
No mods to the A3 beyond the wheels (17 inch are 5lbs less than stock), though I have an H&R bar for the rear, sitting in the garage. Too busy and too many other cars to play with for now.<ul><li><a href="http://forums.audiworld.com/norcal/msgs/45848.phtml">Our latest project</a></li></ul>
Audi Loyalist
10-03-2006, 07:07 PM
I just love the concept! Nice lookin' entry btw. I'm rootin' for 75. Kudos to the organizers for the great idea :)
The dealer does not get paid for a voluntary oil change at PDI, so why would they spend the money? If they tell you such lies, what else can you believe that comes from them!