View Full Version : unintended acceleration, I experienced it! In Depth report on why it's so. (long)


Albert
11-04-1998, 11:00 PM
OK, so I'm on the freeway late at night, some grandma is in front of me driving at like 40mph at midnight, and so I hit my signal to change lanes and pass her. Just as I'm changing lanes, a truck from 2 lanes over decides he wants to change lanes, and since he was drivng an 18 wheeler, I let go of the gas and let the car slow down a bit and ducked back into the original lane behind the grandma. Then it happened, my foot was not on the gas, and the car took off. What the ($#@#$! So here's what happened. When I clicked on my indicator, I accidentally hit the cruise control set button. I didn't know it. As I let go of the gas to duck back into the lane, I never hit the brakes, so it never overrode the cruise control, so as the speed dropped, the cruise control gassed it for me. So Audi, if you are reading this, don't put the cruise control set on the outer edge of the signal arm. <p>Albert

Cameron
11-04-1998, 11:03 PM
where else would you have them put it? On the steering wheel where you'd accidentally activate it more often?<p>Cameron<br>

IronMike
11-04-1998, 11:23 PM
That's where the control is on my BMW too, except it's on the right hand side.<p>Mike

John Pampuch
11-05-1998, 01:21 AM
In the original reports, the so-called unintended acceleration occurred from a (near) standstill. Every incident reported was a vehicle with an automatic transmission. (Including cars of non-Audi and non-European manufacture.) Many manufactures have found that unintended acceleration stops being reported when they change designs to require that the brake be depressed before putting the car into gear. To date, there is no evidence that I have ever read to suggest that there was a design problem in the first case; my belief is that the driver simply confused the brake and throttle pedals. Your case, is quite different. But just tapping the brakes would slow the car here, whereas in the original, the drivers claimed that the brakes had no effect, and that they were pressing them as hard as possible. My understanding is that the brakes should be able to keep the car from moving even under full throttle. <br>

ChuckH
11-05-1998, 01:47 AM
In order for this to happen, you would have had to have left the cruise master switch on, and then hit the resume switch. What are the chances? I have never had this happen, but I have accidentally switched the lights off when going to hit the left signal. Oops! Good thing I know how to turn them back on right away after all these years. :-) <p>Charles<br>

BK
11-05-1998, 04:15 AM
I agree that the cruise control is a weakness of the A4. I actually have to take my hand off the steering wheel to hit accel or to turn it off. It's awkward so now I only use it on extended stretches of highway on long trips. The rest of the car is so enjoyable to drive that I hardly use the cruise at all anymore.

KostaT
11-05-1998, 04:56 AM
The BMW CC stalk has no other functions. Click in to set/resume, push forward to accel, pull back to decel. A much better design from a usability standpoint. The Audi stalk overloads too many functions on the control (brights, signals, cruise). I think they could improve the usability of the driver controls a bit... It looks like they tried with the stereo controls (volume knob in the middle) but they gave up when it came time to design the buttons by making them flush with the console surface. I still have trouble finding buttons on the right side without looking. I guess it just takes a little getting used to.<p>Kosta

tomt
11-05-1998, 04:59 AM
Especially at night,when it is nearly impossible to use without lifting yourself out of the seat to see behind the steering wheel. A very poor design/location.

RobS
11-05-1998, 05:12 AM
He said he hit the set button wich is on the end and very easy to accidently push. If he hit the set button while changing lanes and accelerating then it makes sense. After he got behind the grandma and started to slow it kicked in.

Cris
11-05-1998, 05:32 AM
when I use the signals,... my finger never comes in contact of the cruise control buttons. <p>my 2 cents.<p>Cris

GeorgeC
11-05-1998, 05:34 AM
I've accidentally turned off my headlights a couple of times after making a lane change to the right. When I go to turn the turn-signal stalk to off, I accidentally turn the headlight stalk instead. Location of on-off switch for headlights and on-off switch for the cruise should be on the center console (where there's already a bunch of useless buttons that do nothing anyway).

JonC
11-05-1998, 06:16 AM
A separate stalk: pull towards you=on; push twds. dash=off; push up=accel/resume [ie like a rt. turn signal]; push down (as in left turn signal0=decelerate. <p>Audi system is OK,but no comparison in ease of use to the MB system.

JonC
11-05-1998, 06:19 AM
Cruise control & headlight switch/stalk setup; window switch locations; the armrest that, when down, blocks access to cupholders; and the speedometer positioned so that the steering wheel blocks out (for me) the ~65-85mph range.<p>On the whole, though, a fine car (so far, 2.4k mi.)

T2
11-05-1998, 06:55 AM
And especially with the sport steering wheel, you can't really see the cruise-control stalk. However I can live with this ergo. oversite.<p>Tom<br>1.8TQMS Silver/Ecru

Mr. ///M3
11-05-1998, 07:49 AM
CC is even on the RIGHT HAND SIDE of the steering wheel, as to avoid the turn signal, etc.<p>I love it. One of my all-time favorite features of the BMW.<p>The worst? My GF's 1990 Accord. You had to push a button on the dash and then fiddle with a stalk or something lame like that. TOO cumbersome!

Alfredo
11-05-1998, 07:49 AM
The location of the CC/signals/headlights controls have been the same for Audi since at least 1990. My friend has a 1990 Coupe Quattro and the controls are identical to the A4. I used to have a 1995 90q with the same control locations. This is the first time I've read about this anomaly even after reading quattro list inputs. I like the locations myself--they're unique.

Oscar
11-05-1998, 07:57 AM

nozomi
11-05-1998, 08:35 AM

qt4lddht
11-05-1998, 08:49 AM

Doug G
11-05-1998, 09:02 AM

Dave K
11-05-1998, 09:19 AM
Either my light is burned out or there isn't one, but I have no way of knowing if the cruise has been set.<br>I also would not have bothered to use the turn signal when passing someone going so slow. Justtake a quick glance in the mirrors and go. Obviousely it didn't matter, the truck changed lanes anyways and didn't see your turn signal (or didn't care).<br>

mike TH
11-05-1998, 10:02 AM
I think it is not so bad as you describe it. With your fingers you just touch all the controls very easily without being distracted at all. I use it a lot and never felt that this was a weak point. You can easily manipulate the stalk with only two fingers without getting your hand off the steering wheel.

Drew S.
11-05-1998, 10:28 AM
This could happen to any one of us. Unlike other CC systems, I don't think ours has a way to turn it off. The "set" button is always capable of turning the CC on.<p>However, I would not use the term "unintended acceleration" to describe this event. You will just confuse this CC situation with the fiasco from a decade ago. This was merely an accident with the controls. The car did what it was asked to do. This was unintended only in the fact that the driver wishes he didn't hit the button, not that the car took off as if it were possessed.<p>Drew S.<br>

LCP
11-05-1998, 10:40 AM

LCP
11-05-1998, 10:41 AM

Kyle Bailey
11-05-1998, 10:56 AM
Push the Resume|Off switch to the off position until it clicks. At least that's the way it works on my '97 2.8.<p>Kyle

T2
11-05-1998, 11:08 AM

Oscar
11-05-1998, 11:14 AM

J.Russ
11-05-1998, 11:24 AM
After owning a number of cars w/out cc and having my right leg freeze in a palsy-like spasm from holding down the accelerator pedal during a 10-hour road trip, all I can say is, I WANT MY CRUISE CONTROL!<p>As for an automatic transmission, well...

John
11-05-1998, 11:55 AM
I don't use the cruise control much, but a few times while trying decrese the set speed using the (-) button, I have flipped on my high beams. Generally this happens as I am getting too close to someone cruising more slowly than I wish to. Engineering or irony?

D Smith
11-05-1998, 12:12 PM

Cathleen
11-05-1998, 12:32 PM
I intuitively know where the controls are...just like where the gas, clutch and brake are. The stalk funtions were pretty much universal to me even coming from a couple of Hondas.<br>What is best is that you don't have to remove your hands from the wheel to actuate the functions (with the exception of the cruise set button...which could be better placed). Since you should always drive in the 9-3 position for safety (airbag deployment and emergency maneuvers) they placed them behind where you fingers naturally are.<br>I can signal a turn, flash brights, turn on lights, windsheild washer controls and cruise resume/end with my fingers while keeping my hands on the proper wheel placement.<br>IMO they did the absolute best positions.<br>-Cathleen

Cathleen
11-05-1998, 12:35 PM

Cathleen
11-05-1998, 12:41 PM
These functions should be memorized and as natural as breathing. Just like pedal placement it is subconcious, so too, are hand controls. <br>As I posted above, IMO Audi did the RIGHT thing by putting the controls in finger reach of your 9-3 hand pos. That way, you can keep your hands on the wheel. Actually, come to think of it, I even can do the cruise set button with my finger and not take my hand off the wheel.<br>-C.<br>

Drew S.
11-05-1998, 02:45 PM
You think the placement of the cruise control is bad? Look at the gear diagram ON TOP of the stick shifter! Whose bright idea was it to put it there? As soon as I put my hand on the shifter, I can't see the diagram!! I have to take my hand off, look at the diagram, and then go back to shifting gears. I think the diagram should have been on the console, somewhere near the radio, perhaps.<p>;-)<p>Don't even get me started on the horn being in the middle of the steering wheel! I want one of those cables like the truckers pull on!<p>;-)<br>

qt4lddht
11-05-1998, 04:01 PM

klidge
11-05-1998, 04:20 PM

Louis
11-05-1998, 04:21 PM
the switch all the way to the right where it clicks into the OFF setting.<br>

Kirk
11-06-1998, 12:33 AM
If you hit the "set" button and let off of the gas, then the car would not begin to slow down, it would maintain that speed. Thus no unintended acceleration, your speed just did not go down, now if you were on a hill, then there might be a surge as the Cruise activates to compensate, but I just do not see how this would have happened this way without hitting the "resume" button. THAT is when you would "begin to slow down" and then have an acceleration surge.<p>What you describe just does not make sense to me.<p>Kirk

tomt
11-06-1998, 04:54 AM
The key here is (as the previous post states) whether someone "uses it alot". No offense Cathleen, but to compare memorization of pedal placement with operation of the cruise control stalk is completely ABSURD. It is one thing to look at the stalk and be able to figure out what each function is. But it is another matter altogether for someone like myself who does NOT use the cruise control routinely, i.e. once every couple of months - you must *at least* be able to see it in order to use it. And it simply cannot be easily seen ( at least behind the sport wheel). I checked this again yesterday after I posted.<br>My memorization skills got me through graduate school and I consider them adequate for most of life's tasks. But I challenge anyone on this board who does not REGULARLY use the cruise control to turn it on and manipulate all of the controls ***without any visual assistance***. Nor should anyone have to! The level of manual dexterity required to operate the controls is also higher than it should be (although I don't have a problem in this aspect, I can easily envision some people out there who might). <br> I never thought I would be giving Ford a plug, but the cruise control on my Mustang is on the steering wheel and VERY simple to see and operate, with minimal distraction and almost no possibilty of accidentally turning it on. I stand by my earlier statement. Audi blew it on the cruise control. <p>Tom<br>'97 2.8q

tomt
11-06-1998, 05:07 AM

Drew S.
11-06-1998, 05:41 AM
I checked the CC stalk when I got in my car last night and woulnd't you know it, there IS a way to turn off the CC. You are correct. My apologies.<p>I don't remember having to click it on the first time. I guess someone else must have left it on before I took delivery and I never looked close enough to notice that you could turn it off.<p>Well, I will now leave it off unless in use.<p>Drew S.<br>

Audi is right
11-06-1998, 10:52 AM
I use the cruise about once a month and never have a problem. The best part I like is that when all 4 of us jump in and take off and I get yelled at to LOCK the doors, all I have to do is use my left pinky and lock the doors with out moving my hands at all except for the little finger. I was checking all this out last night as I was cruising down the highway for about 10 miles(in the dark) and how I thought everything was in great positions.<br>

Cathleen
11-06-1998, 11:41 AM
Good humor!<br>Actually.....I have the anotomical wood shift knob from MOMO that matches my wood interior trim. It does not have a diagram, of course. The funny thing is, when I am absolutely forced to valet it (I dread them possibly ramming my low spoiler in to a curb or scaping a 17" rim) they sometimes get all goofed up because they don't have the diagram to figure out where reverse is. ;)<br>-C.

Cathleen
11-06-1998, 12:32 PM
In my other post I said the placement of the set button is not convenient...I meant the on and resume. I like where the set button is it's the on and resume that I think need improvement. Still, it should be a stalk control function....NOT on the steering wheel.<br>I DON'T like controls on my steering wheel. I think it's UGLY and I disagree that in a high performance driving situation like on the track, you very well might hit a control by accident.<br>I seldom use cruise; maybe 4-5 times per year at most. Still, I instantly recall that pushing the sliding button right is 'off', left is 'on' and 'resume' and a quick blip right will disengage the cruise without having to use the brakes or shutting cruise off completely. This is just memory from VERY occasional use. Yes perhaps it's not the easiest but I don't have to move my hand far/much to do it. They could improve it and should. But I'll be really ticked if they ever put BUSY controls on the steering wheel....call me a purist but I think too much convenience is annoying and tacky.<br>-C.