I think it is pretty sad that you - S3 owners - have to share your forum with the A3 owners. On the other hand I can imagine why: in fact the S3 is nothing else than an upgraded A3. Better look to the TT: THAT IS A REAL CAR!
It is too sad for my collegue that he bought the wrong car and now is bothering me with that every day. You probably guessed already he bought a S3.

Kind regards,
TT-fan

I had the opportunity to choose between the S3 and the TT.

I chose the S3 and am very happy with the decision I made. The TT looks more fashionable inside and outside, but a real drivers car it is not. I am a Group N Rally Driver and believe me, the TT doesn't even come close to the driving experience the S3 delivers. The car doesn't communicate with the driver (especially the steering), makes you feel very nervous on curves (you don't know if it's going to oversteer or understeer), doesn't grip the road like a quattro (that's why an official recall has been made). In all tests made by car magazines like Top Gear, Auto Bild, Car etc. the pros have chosen the S3 over the TT.

If you want to buy it for your girlfriend, be my guest. If you want one to "drive", you are making a mistake.

ravenx
'00 Black S3

Hi,

I think the other reason, if not the primary reason, that the A3 and S3 share this forum is because these cars are rare in the US, and the webmasters probably thought (and rightly so) that there would only be a few people taking part in this forum. But they provided it anyway, and I thank them for that, we just need to find a way of getting more A3/S3 owners involved from around the world.

I don't think anyone would disagree, when I say the TT is a beautiful car, inside and out, and is very unique. And is probably a fun car to drive. But I think I'd have to side with 'ravenx' on the driving side.

I can't speak from experience, but certainly everything I have read suggests that the S3 has better handling than the TT. I heard that this is because the S3 has better front-to-rear weight distribution. This can only mean better handling. Can anyone confirm this?

But I have a question for you. What would be your view if Audi produced a 300bhp TT, (rumours suggest this, see AutoCar UK), and called it "ST"? The webmasters would probably change the TT forum to "TT/ST Forum". :)

Anyway, I'm happy sharing this forum with the S3 guys. Even though my A3 is slower etc. than their S3's. :)

Cheers,

Alan
'99.5 A3 1.8T MS Silver

You are right about the front-to-rear weight distribution issue. And this makes the car much more stable, especially on the curves and under sudden changes in weight distribution. I have driven both cars and made my decision. And I think I made the right one.

I read most car magazines regularly and have also seen the Autocar you mentioned. I don't know about you, but the TT doesn't look like a mascular car. It sure looks good, but doesn't have the styling edge cars like Aston Martin Vantage or Porsche 996 Turbo. It looks like a fragile toy to me. I like the interior design much better than the exterior. Consequently I wouldn't but an ST even if they make it 300bhp. I would go for an Subaru Impreza STi.

And I have to comment on the subject of you car being slower than the S3. It's the driving experience that counts for me, looks come second. And I believe your car handles very close to mine and both offer better driving experience than the TT.

ravenx
'00 Black S3

Hi ravenx,

Yes, I think you are right about the S3 being more masculine in appearance than the TT.

I also thought this when I first had a test drive of an A3 1.8T. I looked at the lines of the car for tens of minutes, if not hours, admiring how it looked at different angles. It looked smooth, beautiful, yet purposeful and masculine. And the the S3s syling just takes that even further. I saw my first Silver one today, by the way - nice.

Regarding performance comparisons that the TT owners might bring up. They should remember that the S3 is de-tuned, so that the TT can be "top-of-the-tree". Should a TT 225bhp come up against an even slightly modified S3, (only 15bhp difference) the S3 would probably come out tops. Certainly in a point-to-point handling route. I'd love to see such a side-by-side test. I am really envious that you driven both of these excellent cars.

Aaahhh! Subaru STi's! Do we share the same desire to have one of these fantastic machines? I think we do. I'd love one. If my next car is not an Audi S3, S4 or TT, it will be a Subaru STi!! I love them, and actually had the privilege last year to drive one. BLOODY-HELL!! Was it quick! I came away from the drive with more adrenaline pumping through me than I have ever experienced. I was in a different world afterwards, totally out-of-it! One of the best days of my life.

Yes, driving experience is important, rather than out-and-out speed. That's probably why, in the UK, the pug 306 and 206 have been voted best Hot-hatches, on numerous occasions. Much to my disappointment, that the A3 was not voted best. But the A3 is still a fantastic drive. I've had real fun in it. Especially on fast and twisty country lanes in Yorkshire.

Hey, in your other post you said you were a Group N rally driver. Ever thought of rallying an S3?

Regards,

Alan.
'99.5 A3 1.8T MS Silver

I totally agree with everything you said. I am planning to modify the car after the warranty period expires. First I'm going to upgrade to Porsche 993 brakes (just like ARE did). Then I am definitely going to change the Pirelli P6000's, I hate them. I am currently interested in the test results of the new Goodyear Eagles. I haven't yet decided on a particular chip. Can be Wetterauer (235bhp) or MTM (250bhp). I'm also waiting for the official announcement from ABT (250bhp). They are still testing it. Please do comment on these issues. You seem to know about Tuning.

Nowadays I race occasionaly. I fill in for friends, who are "unable" to race. I like the Maxi Megane Kit Car I drove for a couple of races last season. It also looks very masculine and is built completely to the purpose of rallying. Wish I could take it to the streets.

Taking the S3 for rallying, I think, would not be very suitable. We need to do intensive modification and that would cost way to much. Besides the car is neither a two wheel drive car nor a permanent 4wheeler. I don't know to what Group the car would fit in, if any. Moreover, you should know how "much" spare parts of cars like Audi, BMW cost. Do you know how many times we need to change the bumpers of the car in a season? I'm sure you do. But, if everything worked out somehow, the car would kick some ass, especially on tarmac courses. But a modified S3 can make one hell of a drag racer.

We have only 2 STi's here. Both are personal imports. I drove one in a private drag race. God, it sure left me breathless.

By the way I had to choose black, it is a must for me. Prior to the S3 I have driven a Mitsubishi Galant VR4, a Fiat Tipo 2.0i 16v and a Vauxhall Vectra 2.5i 24v, all black. I know the Vauxhall sounds odd, but my parents insisted on it after I wrecked the Fiat. They thought buying a dull looking family saloon would stop me from killing my self. They were right. The car was so horrible, I was too afraid to drive it fast.

Silver looks very noble. By the way, do you have any pics of your car? I'm going to post mine soon.

ravenx
'00 Black S3

I DON ´T KNOW WHY YOU SAY THAT. MAYBE COSE YOU ARE GELOUS.
I HAVE A FRIEND WHO HAS A TT. SHE SAID TO ME THAT TT IS
PERFECT FOR A GIRL.
I THINK THE SAME. TT IS A GIRL CAR (LIKE Z3), A PRETTY SMALL CAR!!!!! :-)

S3 FUN (REAL CAR)

S3 only an ungraded A3 - some upgrade ! I am sure you must realize that your TT platform is only really an A3 / Golf .
I have just bought an A3 1.8T great car and I am not envious of your TT . Nice car but not for me. In my area,30 miles from London UK, you are more likely to be stopped by the Police if you are in a hurry in a "sporty" looking TT than what is at a quick glance, to non enthusiasts,an 'ordinary' A3.
Subtlety is the name of the game - less is more !

Hi,

Sorry I didn't respond earlier, holidays, Christmas shopping etc. etc.

I see you are looking at the top Tuners for modifying your S3. Those tuners, excluding Wett, are available in the UK, but the costs for a basic chip are *very* expensive.

I can't say I'm expert on tuning, but I know bits of things. I read a lot of car magazines, send off for information, read the performance forum etc. So I'm learning all the time.

I didn't know the S3 was NOT a permanent 4wheeler. Shame it wouldn't be suitable for rallying, and you are right, parts would cost a fortune!

A Vauxhall doesn't sound odd at all. I once had a Vauxhall Astra Sport 2.0i 16V, it was a good car, saved my life in a side impact accident! It was quick too, not much difference in performance between it and the A3 actually. But the A3 has much better handling. So point-to-point the A3 would come out tops. An build quality, despite my creaking doors, the A3 is in a different league.

I do have pictures of my car, lots of them. I will attempt to scan some in during the New Year.

Cheers,

Alan
'99.5 A3 1.8T MS Silver

Hi everyone,

Just thought I'd post some figures recently printed in the Jan/Feb 2000 "Audi Driver" Magazine...

TT Coupe Quattro 225:-

Unladen Weight, LB/kg = 3067 / 1144.6 kg
Power Output, Bhp/Kw @ Rpm = 225/165 @ 5900
Max Torque, LB.FT/Nm @ Rpm = 207/280 @ 2200-5500
Max Speed = 151 mph
0-50 mph = 4.7 s
0-60 mph = 6.2 s
0-70 mph = 8.2 s
0-80 mph = 10.2 s
30-50 mph (3rd gear) = 3.6 s
30-50 mph (4th gear) = 5.2 s
50-70 mph (3rd gear) = 3.5 s
50-70 mph (4th gear) = 4.3 s
50-70 mph (5th gear) = 5.5 s

S3 :-

Unladen Weight, LB/kg = 3032 / 1131.54 kg
Power Output, Bhp/Kw @ Rpm = 210/154 @ 5800
Max Torque, LB.FT/Nm @ Rpm = 200/270 @ 2100-5000
Max Speed = 149 mph
0-50 mph = 4.5 s
0-60 mph = 6.2 s
0-70 mph = 8.1 s
0-80 mph = 10.3 s
30-50 mph (3rd gear) = 3.5 s
30-50 mph (4th gear) = 5.4 s
50-70 mph (3rd gear) = 3.6 s
50-70 mph (4th gear) = 4.3 s
50-70 mph (5th gear) = 5.8 s

Not much in it is there?

Regards,

Alan
'99.5 A3 1.8T MS Silver

The same here with Christmas shopping rush.

The Vauxhall (actually it was an Opel) Vectra I drove was not fun at all. In your A3 case only the doors are creaking. In my Vectra case everything was rattling and creaking. The doors, the air vents, the dashboard. And the car was three years but only 9000miles old. The old Astra GSi (I don't know if the badging was different in the UK) with 150bhp was a great car. In fact it was the car of my dreams for a long period.

By the way, I experienced some problems with the S3 lately. The car didn't stop at a junction and I had to go through a red light. It was close. The brakes need urgent attention. I contacted the my dealer and asked for 993 brakes (here Porsche and Audi are distributed by the same company). So the change won't affect the factory warranty. Also the right rear view mirror started falling from its case and had to be replaced.

I scanned the pics of my car and am working on finding the most suitable way to post them.

Regards,

ravenx
'00 Black S3

Official Figures from the Audi S3 Catalog:

Unladen Weight = 1375 kg
Power Output, Bhp/Kw @ Rpm = 210/154 @ 5800
Max Torque, Nm @ Rpm = 270 @ 2100-5000
Max Speed = 238 km/h
0-100 km/h= 6.8 s


Test Figures from Auto Motor & Sport 11/08/99:
(compared S3 to Golf V6 4Motion, overall Golf 579 points, S3 539 points)

Unladen Weight, kg = 1426
Power Output, Bhp/Kw @ Rpm = 210/154 @ 5800
Max Torque, Nm @ Rpm = 270 @ 2100-5000
Max Speed = 238 km/h
0-80 km/h = 4.7 s
0-100 km/h = 7.0 s
0-160 km/h = 17.2 s
0-200 km/h = 33.6 s
0-1000m = 27.4 s
60-100 km/h (4th / 5th gear) = 5.6 s / 8.7 s
80-120 km/h (5th / 6th gear) = 7.6 s / 10.5 s
100-0 km/h braking distance (cold / hot) = 38.2 m / 39.0 m


Test Figures from Echappement 06/99:
(compared S3 to Honda Integra R, found S3 too expensive)

Unladen Weight, kg = 1375
Power Output, Bhp/Kw @ Rpm = 210/154 @ 5800
Max Torque, Nm @ Rpm = 270 @ 2100-5000
Max Speed = 234 km/h
0-1000m = 27.7 s
80-120 km/h (5th / 6th gear) = 8.6 s / 11.2 s
80-150 km/h (5th / 6th gear) = 14.9 s / 20.1 s


Test Figures from Sport Auto 06/99:
(Super Test at Hockenheim & Nürburgring)

Unladen Weight, kg = 1489
Power Output, Bhp/Kw @ Rpm = 210/154 @ 5800
Max Torque, Nm @ Rpm = 270 @ 2100-5000
Max Speed = 238 km/h
0-40 km/h = 1.4 s
0-60 km/h = 2.9 s
0-80 km/h = 4.6 s
0-100 km/h = 6.7 s
0-120 km/h = 9.3 s
0-140 km/h = 13.0 s
0-160 km/h = 17.1 s
0-180 km/h = 23.4 s
0-200 km/h = 32.8 s
Hockenheim Short Course 2.6 km = 1min 20,9 s
Nürburgring Nordschleife 20.6 km = 8min 41s
80-100 km/h (4th / 5th / 6th gear) = 2.8 s / 3.8 s / 5.0 s
80-120 km/h (4th / 5th / 6th gear) = 5.8 s / 7.8 s / 10.3 s
80-160 km/h (4th / 5th / 6th gear) = 13.1 s / 16.7 s / 22.8 s
100-0 km/h braking distance (cold / hot) = 37.1 m / 37.1 m

ravenx
'00 Black S3

Car Magazine January 2000 Edition:

"Chris Meek's TT Coupé was 10 miles old. He'd picked it up from the dealer, given his two young children a short lift, then gone off down a familiar road. Confronted by overtaking traffic coming the other way, he turned to the left, backed off and touched the brakes - an ordinary manoeuvre. The road was dry, though there was a crosswind. The TT's tail stepped out, he corrected, it swung the other way. The car fishtailed across the road, hit the offside barrier head on and rolled onto its roof while crossing back to the nearside. Meek broke his neck, while his partner Barbara Williams sustained a near-fatal fractured skull."

"In truth, Audi has got off lightly compared with Merc's A-class recall: the elk test is a violent track manoeuvre and no member of the public rolled an unmodified A-class. Several real people have been really hurt in TTs"

Yet another case, luckily neither the driver nor his partner died.

TT owners, do take your car to your dealer if you are going to drive it on autobah speeds. Don't feel overconfident because of the "voluntary recall" term used by Audi.

ravenx
'00 Black S3

Is that TT of yours a VW New Bettle? It is pretty tough to tell, they LQQK exactly alike!

Hi Ravenx,

You seem to have collected a lot of information! Which is nice to see.

As for our figures being different. Figures are bound to vary from magazine-to-magazine, test driver-to-test driver, conditions, whether the speeds are in km/h or miles-per-hour etc. etc.

Regards,

Alan.

I agree with the reasons you gave for the differences in performance figures. We can even add temperature and the type of track to your list. But what about unladen weight? The difference even reaches 100kg. Do you have a reasonable explanation for this?

I have even more figures and they all will be listed when I have my S3 enthusiast site up and running.

Regards,

ravenx
'00 Black S3

Yeah. It's a bit unusual the weight differences in our figures.

I quoted the figures straight out of the January 2000 issue of Audi Driver (page 8). 3032 Lbs is the weight they quote. So who knows??? I'm not saying that Audi Driver are right. But one would expect so, with it being an enthusiast magazine. Maybe I got the conversion wrong from Lbs to Kgs?

I might right to them, giving them the figures you quote, and see what they say. Maybe they've got the weight wrong.

Cheers,

Alan.
'99.5 A3 1.8T MS Silver

To ravenx,

I am also getting black S3.

Have you fitted 993 brakes? Do they work well?

What tyres did you replace the P6000 with?

Cheers, Brian

<center><img src="http://www.tirerack.com/tires/images/michelin/mi_pilot_sport.jpg"></center><p>I haven't fitted the 993 Brakes yet. I am negotiating with Audi Turkey about warranty problems. If they insist on terminating the warranty of the brake system, then I have to wait until the warranty period expires to fit the 993 brakes.

I read a report on German Magazine Sport Auto. A German Tuner called mot'iv, fitted Porsche 993 Brakes on TT and test results were perfect (beware! this conversion costs DM10000). As TT and S3 share the same basis, I would expect similar results.

I am going to replace P6000's with Michelin Pilot Sport. Personally, I like hard compound tyres and these ones also perform quite good under wet conditions. You can check them out at http://www.tirerack.com/tires/michelin/mi_pilot_sport.htm

Regards,

ravenx
'00 Black S3

Does the data come from the same source that says that the A3T is slower in acceleration than the A4T??? If it is, do remember who posted the information? Profit may play a role!!!!

I agree that having power is fun!!! But to extend to 250-300 is a bit strange!!! Are you sure that you are at the limits of the 210bph!!!! Try looking at the speed and time of small track(curvy road 10 to 15km long) and then try doing it 20-k0 km faster!! Then try changing the suspension and put aeronautical brake tubes and do the same road 20km average speed faster!!! Then tell me that 210bph is not enough!!!!

Moritz
S3
Monaco red

#$*@ off you stuck up TT person us A3 boys dont drive inflated then squashed beetles. From what I've read on this forum so far the S3 owners quite like the A3 owners so there!

I was tempted to say alot more but I thought I better keep it clean, but that guy was a twat wasn't he!

Hello all,

I've been reading your messages and I have to admit I was an avid TT follower and was seriously considering getting one the end of the year. But after seeing what you guys had to say about it I think I'm going to get my hands on the S3.

How much do these babies go for, and is it cheaper to get it over in Europe? and if so where from? I here Denmark is a good place to buy from. Can I have your input on this please.