I would guess the nonDBW and some of the DBW stuff is probably mostly hacked.

Problem is, no chip tuner will give out the info, since it would definately affect their chip sales.

you or me.

functions as ABT, MTM or Dahlback. The fact that the US based tuners don't offer 20000 dollar high HP 'kits' doesn't mean they don't have a handle on the ECU functions .. given or otherwise.
I've also 'heard' that GIAC and Sportec were 'given the code'. I believe that as thoroughly as your saying MTM, Dahlback, etc., were.

Don't you grow tired of being wrong?

I see you are running all of 250whp. Maybe GIAC can get you to 300.
Spend some money
Your knowledge base is rather small.
Rod

has turned out to either be bull****, regurgatation of some drivel you've been told, read somewhere or an outright fabrication intended to pump up your self import; all the while trying to appear as tho you are independent. Did you not tell me in a private email that you had an affiliation with TJM?

As I've told you both here and in emails, I have the utmost respect for Hans Dahlback. He does great work. I have spent nearly as much money with him as any other supplier. It's your 'only Europeans can tune Audis' stance I don't like. ... well now that I think of it, I don't like you either.

For someone who purports to be such an expert you certainly don't demonstrate a very good handle on the 'facts' you post here.

Need an adapter plate for your 6 speed tranny swap Rod?

There are many things that I've seen a certain tuner do that were beyond amazing with the stock DBW EMS. They will probably never be released, but they FULLY understand the ENTIRE system and can manipulate it in quite amazing ways. But then again, what do those ex-Bosch ME engineers that are working for APR know anyway....

WTF do they have left?

I have no affiliation w/TJM, but Tim is my best friend and I trust him and have seen Dahlback and a few Euro tuners work. You guys are just covering ground I covered on the 5 cyl engines. You will spend a lot of money chasing ghosts, but I dont care. You often learn better lessons when they are expensive. Yes, Yipper a piece does have to be fitted to put the rs2 tranny in.. Hope yours holds. Sorry you dont like me, but when my car is done tested and published I will get out of your life, and none too soon, eh? Time will tell who is bullshooting, I look forward to a 650hp engine from GIAC so that the euro guys can raise the bar a little more.

Also, after 2005 we will see who has the keys to the ECU's when you have to match a rolling # generator for the car to run. See who sells tuning chips then and we will all have answers to the questions you raise.
Dont make things personal - I dont care enough to play the silly game.
Rod

and boost tables.

AMS, APR, GIAC (among others) all have software solutions that are either ~ equivelant to or make slightly more power than the chip only solutions from the European tuners.

APR offers a bolt on kit that makes ~ the same power as Han's 286 HP kit. I know you like to say that Dahlback's is whp but it isn't. It is crank see ... http://forums.audiworld.com/performance/msgs/59115.phtml ...which you conveniently ignored btw.

APR also offered a Stage III+ bolt on kit (no internals) that makes a reliable ~330 HP crank. You bought one from them. You stated it made good power, especially on Race/race but you wanted more on pump. "There package as I have it 3+ is a pleasant car to drive and when on race gas I would be happy, but on pump it isnt enough for me..." (see http://forums.audiworld.com/performance/msgs/59107.phtml)

Even you ought to be able to see that AMS, APR and GIAC have been able to program in new fueling, timing and boost maps. Since making power is merely a function of fuel, air and ignition timing and as noted, the US tuners can and have indeed done that, saying that they cannot is a bit stupid don't you think?

APR has demonstrated the ability, by your own words, to program a bigger turbo solution. The addition of lower CR forged pistons, forged rods and cams certainly doesn't alter the method of accessing and programming the ECUs. Programming for greater fuel deliver, a cooler, more dense intake charge and/or greater boost doesn't alter the method by which the programming is done. It still boils down to air/fuel, boost and timing. To argue the US tuners haven't 'cracked' the ECU is specious and stupid at best.

The fact that the US tuners have elected to either do programming only, as in the case of GIAC, or to thus far limit their offerings to simple bolt on as in the case of APR, ought not be confused with their ability to program for solutions that do incorporate internal hardware changes along with larger turbos. As with any market, the number of folks willing to plunk down 15000-20000 dollars on top of a ~30,000$ initial investment to get a ~400 hp 4 door luxo-sedan is pretty limited.

Lastly, am I to assume you were lying when you told me you were 'sponsored' by TJM, that you are lying now when you say you are just 'best friends' with Tim or that times have changed and you're no longer accessing the gravey train?

I really dont care to play your game, I was trying to save some people like me who want more than 400 for their car. If you have the code you do this and all the stuff continues to work, the US tuners have problems with DBW, and the things they have done were by reverse engineering. There are many more maps than boost/fuel/timing that have to be taken into account to write a real solution. My knowledge suggests they do not posess this code. If they did they would have chips for all cars to current and would be getting $1500 per day to custom tune. Regardless of your retort, any insult you may care to throw this will be my last comment other than to publish my dyno and time slips, as if they had any bearing on how a car performs overall. And Tim is my best friend and any sponsorship I get will be because of friendship and not any money, beleive me your 15-20 figure dont come close to what I will have put into this car, but I certainly can afford it so dont lose sleep.
Bye bye Yip
Rod

is it not?

by no means did it gut APR of their tuning abilities. If that were the case, the developments offered by them in the last two years wouldn't have occurred.

That none of the US tuners compete? I don't think so.. we all know that ABT and MTM get insider info, as does Dahlback (who's stuff is basically like MTM's, who's stuff is basically like ABT's). GIAC I'm sure gets inside info, but I'm not so sure about APR... I would say the same about REVO not having the same insider info.

Not more recently? So who did leave, and who did stay since it seems that APR is not doing so hot.

Dahlback, MTM, ABT or Sportec isn't the issue. It is you besmeerching all tuners who aren't represented by TJM or at least Germanic Europeans, as being unable to program a VAG ECU.

I will repeat one more time in the hopes it sinks in ... I have the utmost respect for Dahlback and I've absolutely no doubt they are capable of building a high horsepower A4.

If you can't abide having the error of your logic pointed out don't post the drivel that elicits folks to point it out.

edit . .BTW I think you'd find Hans Dahlback insulted if he knew you were saying he lacked the skills or intellect to write 'programs' for the Bosch ME ECUs without being given the 'code' to do it.

write te problems out of the picture.I'm not saying that you cannot write code (DB wrote the MAF out of the upper end kits)only that you must have extreme knowledge about how it all hoooks together- and that I havent seen demonstrated by the US tuners. I beleive they will make some machines with big #'s, the question will be can they get big #'s with no problems and drive it daily. 400 crank is easily acheivable with all Audi parts, I sell thse kits and you havent heard me tout them have you? And I would profit from selling those. I am speaking to a small bunch of people who are willing to spend the money to get a daily driver 400hp car with track days at 500w/race.. I still challenge you to show me a car done in US that cranks the hp that you can look at on MTM site or Dahlbacks site. I dont care what anyone buys as it wont put money in my pocket, I am just saying that if you are wanting a solution anytime for the #'s I am talking about you should look to the guys who have already done it, this engine has been widely available since 97, thats 7 years for someone to get it right and market it. Sorry you dont agree with me and I have come to my conclusions the hard way. I think APR and others make a nice cafe kit for these cars and the race gas chip on mine @ a claimed -APR - 360hp is closeto what I want for 100,000 miles of daily street driving. That is what I am spending my money for, a car which is as good as can be in every way and for a long time. I dont beleive that type of output with reliability is available. If it is you should tell the good people on the list where to obtain it and how much it costs. This argument is pointless, lets lets let this disagreement end on he list, I am just strong in my view, and from now until I get the car done and some #'s I will refrain from bothering you in any way, OK wif u bro?.
Rod

Now they just see the size of the market and are offring full lines and big hp for off road only.
Rod

Audi tuners hadn't cracked the ECU. It didn't begin by asking if any US tuners offered 'kits' in excess of xxx whp. He was looking for a product similar to the Hondata (http://www.hondata.com/). I responded that the major tuners (I didn't mention ANY by name) had cracked the ECU but weren't likely to provide us with a solution that cut them out of the economic process. You attempted to turn that into a sales pitch for the superiority of European tuners. When challenged you again drop back to the over 400 whp daily driver dogma. Who was talking about > 400 whp daily drivers in this thread until you fell back to that diatribe?

I've never argued that you could get an over 400+ hp kit from your local APR or GIAC dealer. If it is your goal to have a 450whp daily driver from Dahback or from Sam Smith Inc I say wonderful. Go do it and enjoy .. just don't look down your snoot at those folks who don't want to spend the 10k or > $ to follow your lead.

You aren't speaking to only those few who want what you want. When you make your sweeping generalizations you don't qualify them so as to address the >450whp daily drivers segment. Some readers here merely want to get the most from their .. gasp .. chipped-only car. Other's are content with a K04 upgrade, some APR's kit, some a PES offering, still others have gone their own direction like Lucas or John Bass.

You are wrong in stating that the fact that US based tuners haven't offered a major upgrade engine proves they lack the knowledge or skills to do so. Audi hasn't offered any ~3000 pound 650 hp daily driver's either. Does that mean they haven't cracked the ECU?

Perhaps you forget what market we are in. Folks here whine like a cut cat at a screwin contest when a tuner announces a price rise to cover increased manufacturing costs. Folks won't order a 300$ upgrade unless they can get it for 290 on a group buy.

Take a poll and see how many folks would plunk down the $ for a MTM stage 4 or > kit? Find out how many people here bought one. It's a very nice setup but buyers don't line up cuz it's too many dollars. ABT, MTM and Dahlback all spend R&D money developeing set ups for markets that are decidely differenet than the US market. If they had to rely on US sales only to recoup their investment I think you'd find a sudden chill on the R&D money spent on 15-20,000$ 'kits'.

Interesting .. you say you are 'selling these kits' and that you don't care what anyone buys as it won't put money in your pocket. I have to admit that confuses me.

Hopefully, whatever,we still dont agree, but thats OK with me. And I dont HAVE to be right for the list, so OK
Later
Rod

So now I am playing with the baby motor. I had success with the 5cyl tho only after doing what I am telling everyone. The machine needed no improvements, just the SW and a better breather system. Another 100hp would have been avail. on race gas, I think 430 to wheels on pump was the limit tho, no matter what else I had done. 500 to wheels would have required no more than a better intake and a little more injector.
This car A4 is 1000lbs lighter and I am looking for 320-340 to wheels on pump and 400 to wheels on race, with a lot more left. The bottom end on this car is built to do 600hp for a 24 hr. endurance race. I am doing this so I can drive everyday and not worry.
Rod

I'd love to hear what you can get out of a proper 2.0 stroker.

I can get you SW thru a company in germant T&S tuning. Takes a lot of other parts too. Let me know if you are interested. It is expensive to do it right, but I will only sell the SW to someone doing it right per Toms wishes. He also has a 400ps kit for the 4 cyl using all Audi parts.
Rod