I have a stock .bin file for a non-dbw 1.8T

Here is a timing map I created:
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/12130/advance2.jpg">

It's a 12 x 16 map. I'm guessing Load vs. RPM goes on the bottom, but not sure which is which.
Timing usually increases with RPM, but decreases with load. So I would guess that 16 is the RPM side, and 12 is the Load side.

The sides are the timing values in hex divided by 4 (the max point is 5Ah = 90d / 4 = 22.5)

However, the most I've seen my GIAC make was 18 degrees, so I don't see how the stock chip can hit 22.5. On the other hand, this could be the raw timing which then gets modified by some other factors (high intake temps for one)

There are actually four of these maps, and they are exactly the same (one for each cylinder? Who knows?)

Anybody have some load vs. RPM vs. timing data logging of the stock chip? If not, can someone do some logging for me? Please?

I was working on a disassembly of the code, but I kind of hit a dead end right now. Anybody good at working with microcomputer assembly code? I'm a little rusty at it.

Yep, looks like left is load and right is rpm. This is a WOT table I assume? I see timing way more advanced thant that during part throttle, part load.

I think you can also log timing correction to see if you're getting any. Also stock doesn't run nearly as much boost maybe that why the timing could be more advanced to reduce polution?

4 that are 12 x 16 (we'll label them 1 - 4) and 2 that are 16 x 16 (5 and 6)
1 and 2 are the same as each other, and 3 and 4 are the same as each other (just a few bytes off on the low end as compared to 1 and 2)
5 and 6 are identical to each other.

I would guess that with an extra 4 load points per RPM, that 5 and 6 are part throttle maps, since the higher resolution would provide better driveability and emissions. But the values on 5 and 6 are just like 1-4 on the high-end, and the low-end has lower values.

I had always heard that the aftermarket chips advanced the timing, and that was one of the reasons why they got slightly better gas mileage.

Once I get this figured out, then I can move onto the fuel and boost maps....

But at full throttle there's so much boost timing should be less than stock. I've seen K04 programs hold 16 degrees with FMIC and less without. DBW has even less timing. Only 3 to 6 degrees under boost. I guess some tuners like boost more than timing, more air/fuel = more power. Not always the case tho when timing has to be retarded :\

I just looked at some of the datalogs I had (timing vs. RPM, not load unfortunately) and while I was launching by slipping the clutch (which should be low-load situation), the timing was around 40 degrees, then when fully engaged, the timing hit 0, then dropped back to 12 (or 18 if WI was on). During shifts the timing would spike to 35 or so.

I just bought an EEPROM programmer, should be here before the end of the week. It'll be interesting to see exactly what kind of changes GIAC has over stock (and no, I won't be giving out GIAC's code)

Thats pretty good John. Email me and tell me how you did that ;)

basically I can load a bin file, search throgh the code to find the maps (it's pretty obvious if you can see it graphically) and viola, you have a nice 3D map. The locations, size, and configuration are then stored in a resource file.
Once you have the map, you can make changes to it, and save it in the BIN file. It's pretty cool.

The software isn't free though. I used an EEPROM programmer to read the stock chip I have. If you (or anyone) has a stock chip laying around, I'd be glad to read it (as long as it's a 44-pin PSOP or 48-pin or less DIP)

This is the data that corresponds to the graph I made (in case anyone is curious):

//ADVANCE 2
B7B3 - 2E,2E,2A,26,1E,1A,18,17,16,14,13,12
B7BF - 33,33,33,2F,28,21,20,1D,1B,18,16,13
B7CB - 35,39,3C,37,2E,27,26,20,1D,1A,17,14
B7D7 - 3B,41,43,3E,36,2F,2B,27,25,21,1C,18
B7E3 - 3C,44,47,42,3B,33,2F,2B,27,23,21,19
B7EF - 3D,46,48,42,3B,33,30,2C,28,24,21,1E
B7FB - 3E,49,4A,43,3C,34,30,2C,28,25,22,20
B807 - 3F,4B,4C,44,3D,35,31,2D,29,26,23,20
B813 - 40,4C,4F,47,40,3B,37,33,2F,2D,2A,27
B81F - 42,4F,51,4A,44,3E,3B,36,33,31,2D,2A
B82B - 45,51,55,50,4A,44,40,3D,3C,39,37,34
B837 - 46,52,56,51,4C,47,44,41,40,3D,39,36
B843 - 47,54,58,54,4E,4B,49,45,43,3F,3B,36
B84F - 48,56,59,56,51,4D,4A,46,42,3F,3B,36
B85B - 49,57,5A,58,54,4F,4D,48,40,3A,38,35
B867 - 4A,57,5A,59,55,50,4E,45,3F,3B,39,36

just thought of this.. 22 degrees is high rpm and low load. Look at the high load high rpm situation. On the stock map it's only around 13 degrees. I guess the aftermarket chips do advance the timing if the table values are correct.

...idle, part throttle and WOT. I don't know whether they flop back and forth between maps at part throttle, but the idle and WOT maps should be fixed maps.

Mike O.

Each pair is identical. Set 1 and 2 are 12x16, Set 3 is 16 x 16.

The only difference between Set 1 and 2 is the notch you see in the middle left corner.

Set 3 has the least agressive timing, so I wonder if it is the WOT table....

I would think that idle would have a 2D map, I don't see a need for a huge 3D map for such a limited rev/load range.
OTOH, Set 2 with that notch could be the idle range (low load, low RPM).....

Hmmm.....

Set 1:
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/12130/advance1.jpg">

Set2:
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/12130/advance3.jpg">

Set 3:
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/12130/advance5.jpg">

Base timing, altitude timing, and limp mode timing. I know some other cars has multiple maps for the above conditions. You're right about idle, no need for a full range map.

Also I don't agree with having separate maps for idle, part throttle and WOT. That's what a 3D timing map is for, to do look ups for part throttle and WOT based on load.

that's how it is in my Merkur as well.

I think one of the reasons is that part-throttle is usually closed-loop (uses O2 sensor readings) and WOT is open-loop (no feedback from O2 sensor)

It also has to do with emissions and mileage. I'm sure the part-throttle map would be geared towards better mileage and reduced emissions, whereas the WOT map is for max power.

...like the A/C and alternator.

Mike O.

...I forget the actual field but it shows idle, part throttle and "enrich" which is for WOT. This denotes the map that is being used.

Mike O.

I am aware of the modes it operates in. I assume it's for operation modes for fuel. WOT it resorts to maps and warm idle and part throttle operates in closed loop mode. My question is why use a 3D map then with the entire range of load as a parameter? This should include loads for both part throttle, idle and WOT timing values. Do you know if the load range is different for these individual maps(for instance a WOT map will only have relatively high load ranges on that axis)? Since the maps John posted all look very identical, I don't think that's the case. Do you know why they would include high rpm high load values for an idle map?

Mine always said part throttle, even when I was WOT. If I was cruising, and stomped on it, it would say "enrich" for a brief moment, and then say part throttle.

Does yours always say "enrich" at WOT?

I think these modes you see in VAGCOM has to do with the throttle.

Part Thr is when the throttle is pressed but stationary(Req load is stationary)

Enrich is when the throttle is going down(Req load going up)

Idle is when foot is off the gas but engine has no load positive or reverse from teh drivetrain(neutral or clutch in)

Deleration is when there's a reverse load.

This is just my guess. From my log I don't think this is actually the mode the ECU is in.

Check out my log of dbw requested and actual throttle position.<ul><li><a href="http://www-ec.njit.edu/~dxd0835/Images/LOG-01-054-xxx-xxx.xls">http://www-ec.njit.edu/~dxd0835/Images/LOG-01-054-xxx-xxx.xls</a</li></ul>

knock sensor. Makes sense you see two paired. One for each coil pack group, since two coils fire at the same time, one to ignite, and one firing in air (exhaust valve still open) which is mainly for emissions. So, as you all pointed out, 3 sets of maps - per firing pattern. I wish I can modify the timing map of the 12V. That's all I need to make forced induction power safely. Fuel was the easy part ;)

At full throttle my VAG always says 80% throttle and "part throt". Most I've talked to suggest the same.

see my post below, and dingster's reply...<ul><li><a href="http://forums.audiworld.com/performance/msgs/39802.phtml">http://forums.audiworld.com/performance/msgs/39802.phtml</a></li></ul>