11/07/00 - The Brake Improvement Research Association (BIRA) has announced to its membership the availability of its new "Plus Option" for all released designs.

BIRA has contracted with Coleman Machine Inc of Menominee MI to provide to BIRA members its Coleman multi-piece directional vane rotors as optional equipment to BIRA's System 1 and System 2 designs. These Coleman rotors are designed to be dimensional duplicates of the factory Audi rotors that BIRA uses in its designs.

BIRA System 1 uses the Audi A8 312x25mm rotor, while System 2 uses the 2000-S4 321x30mm rotor. These Coleman rotor designs will be direct replacements for the factory rotors, and can also be used independently from the BIRA designs. BIRA will be pursuing with Coleman an agreement to maintain BIRA's proprietary hat and rotor designs confidential, and make them available only to the BIRA membership.

BIRA's Plus Option is in response to member input for heavy-duty and track use rotors. Although BIRA has not found the stock rotors to be lacking in these applications, it is generally understood that the factory rotors were designed for street use and that the directionally-vaned Coleman rotors would be more capable for the heavy-duty demands of track lapping days. Further, the Coleman rotors offer the additional advantage of unsprung weight reduction as they are half the weight of Audi factory rotors (generally, 9 pounds for the Coleman rotors versus 18 pounds for the factory rotors).

On top of that, they certainly do look sharp!

BIRA's Plus Option is expected to cost members approximately $700 for a pair of directional-vane rotors, center hats, all hardware to bolt it together, including the optional mounting, balancing, and heat-treating. This cost represents approximately $450 more than the cost of the standard factory rotors.

BIRA will continue to offer all of its designs with the use of factory replacement rotors as standard equipment.

For more information on these and other BIRA offerings, please review the web site at http://www.bira.org<ul><li><a href="http://www.bira.org">Brake Improvement Research Association</a></li></ul>

I figure about $100 per rotor, and $100 per aluminum hat, which is $400, plus a few nuts and bolts, or bolts and safety wire, depending on the hat design. Does this include brackets or something else?

Colemans are heat treated from the factory, so that should be included in the $100 per rotor cost. Even for a custom spec, they shouldn't run more than about $120 per.

Curious,
Warren

MUCH more than 120$ each. About 400$ each I believe (if I recall correctly).

each BIRA member has to purchase them individually, which is the reason I am guessing that the price is so high.

I know when I need a replacement Coleman rotor for my 330mmx28mm brakes the rotor without the hat will be just under $200/side.

it is the aluminum hats that are costing the money here. I do agree with you that the price seems kinda steep, but that is what they are :(

I don't understand why Coleman can't sell the rotors with Audi hats to anyone, why it must ONLY be a BIRA member! Nothing propieatary about an Audi bolt pattern/offset that Coleman could not have figured out on their own! The BIRA bracket is another story, that is proprietary.

eh, what do I care, I am happy with my AP Racing setup :)

Call me skeptical but Brake Improvement Research? Coleman's are already being run on Audis, so you're recreating the wheel?
I believe Vortrag has been selling those Coleman rotors for a few years now with hats that have already been designed and proven. There's a lot about all of that in the archives and I know they sell those with Brembo/Porsche calipers too because I've seen the kits on cars at track events.
I also believe that you can get the Colemans for the A/P kit which just came out.
It's not a new concept, so I wonder why it's better to buy from BIRA? It's all the same when you add it all up.

Proprietary? C'mon. There's already plenty of brackets out there to put various calipers on these cars. The bracket isn't something that can't be done by any skilled machinist in a good tuning shop.

...cost alot. Coleman's standard inventory of circle track hats are around $100, but if you've got to special order one (or 20), they're a lot more expensive. That's why I've got Wilwood hats on the '65 Mustang - the offset is .020 too much, but the pads don't know it and a Coleman custom hat is twice what the Wilwood is (which is already $$$). The Bira stuff shouldn't be a problem to reverse engineer - they're probably just using one of Coleman's standard lightweight rotors (maybe not such a smart idea...) and a hat of appropriate offset. Brake designers put mass into the braking system for a reason. I'm not convinced that I'm smarter than them. I'd stick with heavy rotors, thank you. Send Coleman a drawing and they'll make anything. NSOTA.

You have plans to sneak down to Summit Point for the night enduro next weekend ? I think I'm bringing the SRF down for the sprints....unless something else starts running really soon....

BIRA wants to provide inexpensive performance brake kits to Audi owners. It isn't a for profit company - but a group of people who designed brackets, etc. in order to mount the porsche calipers. They formed the organization to provide a forum for their members and limit liability - everyone who 'buys' a bira 'bracket' knows they are using an experimental system and accepts those risks.

You are completely right about the brackets and hats - It isn't rocket science - Its automotive engineering, and the time and effort anyone puts into a project like this deserves respect, escpecially when they don't make any profit from it.

I, for one, would be pretty pissed off if a company such as coleman duplicated one of my designs for someone else, made a profit off of it, and exposed me to liability in the process.

Groups like BIRA bring the buying power of a company to individuals like us. Yes, the Coleman rotor price seems expensive - but you should see how inexpensive the porsche calipers are. You would be furious to have paid 2200$ for Big Reds....

BTW - I am a BIRA member. Duh!

And then will bitch like hell about the cost of BIRA's kit.

If you don't want the BIRA kit, please, please don't join the association, and don't buy the parts. Spend 50% more to buy a "kit" from one of the patrons of this list, for the same parts. Or spend 2-3 times as much for the Big Reds, which are an inferior caliper, or for the Alcons.

Then when you are done, put your tuner-bought expensive solution on the track against a BIRA kit and see if your money was well spent.

BIRA is all about experimenting and making your car better by research and development, the challenge of trying to make something better with your own ideas, not by throwing your money at a tuner and having them do the work for you.

I'm sorry that some of you here have no conecept of what a custom part is, and look at one page in a catalog and then decree that all parts must cost that. Do the research, and then contact a firm like Coleman and see if you can do better.

In other words, put up or shut up. I am damn sickand tired of people who only attack someone's ideas withou researching the problem. Do the work, then do the math. Until then, please exercise restraint and stop slagging people just because they are different.

You need to light a fire under Kurt's ass. Well... Maybe not after Taco Bell.

No enduro for you then? I'll still go hang out. Is your race on Saturday? I'm guessing that Friday is all practice & qualifying.

Warren

I'm gonna be enduro-boy in the SSC car, as the other likely victim has pooched and John knows I can go wicked fast without hurting the car or bouncing it off a wall. Last year we were close to the overall win before one of the two drivers (uh...not me...) stuffed it into the gravel at T1 with twenty minutes left to go. Maybe we can do that again, sans kitty litter.

Nothing going on Friday (I'm not gonna get into C-Town until around midnight Friday ). Sprints Saturday and Sunday, enduro starts sometime between 3pm and 6pm Saturday night, depending on when everyone gets their poop in a pile.

Gotta rig up some kind of horn for the SRF - we run with doorslammers in the "small-bore" class and, although SRF's are much faster the rest of the small bore stuff, it's kinda uncomfortable diving underneath them while admiring your reflection off the BOTTOM of their chrome door handles.

the original stage I and II kits make a lot of sense.However, adding coleman rotors may push the cost closer to mainstream aftermarket?

All I'm saying is that when you piece all of the kit together you really don't save all that much off of the price of an entire kit that goes for say the $2200 you mention.

Calipers, brackets, Rotors, hats, pads, lines, fluid, install. I mean it all adds up.

Also, who helps with all of it if I have a problem? Is there a warranty? I heard that Porsche dealers will only warrant parts put on POrsche cars, not used for aftermarket.

I just don't feel comfortable with the idea that I have to be sourcing all the parts and if one is defective, I am screwed.

call me skeptical

I guess that was a bit crass. Soory. It wasn't meant to a flame. I just don't understand why people form the club to save a few dollars from a complete retail kit and then there's no real support if you have issues. Tuners do the work and yes, they also do the work if I have a problem or issue. I like knowing I can call someone and get real expertise and support from someone who knows the product they put together and will stand behind it.

I'm guess that BIRA may work for the DIY'r who really is an expert but how many people are real experts on brakes? What about people buying these who probably have limited car knowledge or on track experience and may not have the technical knowledge needed? I just happen to like the customer service/techinical support aspect of buying from tuners who have far more experience and knowledge than I.

Yes, I think the BIRA piece came out of a custom design by Coleman for someone from the mother list. I can't remember the exact figure ($800?), but the originals were quite expensive.

Anyway, the point I have with your post is this:

"Brake designers put mass into the braking system for a reason. I'm not convinced that I'm smarter than them. I'd stick with heavy rotors, thank you."

I agree that it is often unwise to try to second guess factory engineers, but sometimes that "reason" you speak of is...money, and nothing else. Brake designers put mass into their braking systems...until they design their race car brakes. Why?

I believe that heavy iron rotors are used because they are cheap.

Speaking of iron, I learned back in my MC roadracing days that iron rotors actually had better braking properties than aluminim rotors, and any decision to go with aluminum was based purely on rotating mass issues (even more critical on an MC). I know many who chose to stay with iron. No real point here; just something to talk about if anybody wants to.

YMMV,

<center><img src="http://www.urs4.com/images/brakes/calipers.jpg"></center><p>Cranky-boy,

I wouldn't be too quick to claim that the monoblocks are superior to the Big Red (BR). The regular Boxster monoblock almost certainly is not (even by BIRA's admission). The 996/Boxster S caliper might be close, but the only one that might surpass the BR is the 996tt monoblock (which isn't even offered in a BIRA application). In the photo above, the Big Reds are on the right (natch...they're BIG!).

The 996tt caliper saves 1.5 lbs per side over BR. I would call that a small advantage. Some of you guys have 1.5 pounds of brake dust on your wheels. The 996tt is a physically smaller caliper (hence the weight savings), but the BR looks better because...it's BIG! (ahem) Okay, the pistons are the same size, so that's a wash. The 996tt pads are also a bit bigger 78 sq.cm vs. 75 sq. cm, but again, I would call it a small adavantage. The BR has a quick change feature for the pads, the modern caliper does not.

More comparison photos can be found at the link below.

BTW, I should have Big Reds by the end of the year. :-P

signed,

Old-school boy,

<center><img src="http://www.urs4.com/images/brakes/calipers_side.jpg"></center><p>

<center><img src="http://www.urs4.com/images/brakes/pads.jpg"></center><p>993tt on left, 996tt on right

>>> I think the BIRA piece came out of a custom design by Coleman for someone from the mother list.

Negative, you think wrong. The BIRA/Coleman design is purely a BIRA design, handed to Coleman to manufacture. Coleman had no input into the design, including that of the custom-made variable-vane rotor. They're simply doing the manufacturing for us.<ul><li><a href="http://www.bira.org">Brake Improvement Research Association</a></li></ul>

>>> Also, who helps with all of it if I have a problem?

I do. The other members of BIRA do.

Ask any BIRA member as to how long it takes them to get a response on a question, and I doubt anyone can say much longer than it would take to call a "tuner" on the phone. Customer Service is never an issue, and if it is I will personally take care of it.

The expertise available on the BIRA Members-Only list (to which several of the responders of this thread tried to get access without membership) is simply astounding. All of our ideas come from this group. All.

>>> Is there a warranty?

I suppose the dealership will give you a warranty on the parts, however for what do you need a warranty if you install everything correctly? The bracket is so overdesigned that you can hang the car from it, and the calipers will be fine unless you gum it up installing (at which point you would be a real jerk to try and get someone to buy your mistake for you...)

And if you are trying to get a warranty for used-up rotors and/or pads, well...<ul><li><a href="http://www.bira.org">Brake Improvement Research Association</a></li></ul>

>>> The BR has a quick change feature for the pads, the modern caliper does not

All monoblocs have quick-change pads, Jimmy. Pads come stright out the top, just like the Reds. I change my pads in about, literally, a minute...

OK, so the new monobloc 996tt caliper is smaller, lighter, and uses bigger pads. The monobloc design makes it a stiffer, improving power application. On top of this, the "kit" will cost you more than what BIRA is offering.

This is "a small advantage"?

GA<ul><li><a href="http://www.bira.org">Brake Improvement Research Association</a></li></ul>

>>> the only one that might surpass the BR is the 996tt monoblock (sic) (which isn't even offered in a BIRA application).

Correction: "which isn't even offered in a *publicly-announced" BIRA application."

Don't jump to conclusions. Even you can have a "Big Bertha" brake system using 996tt monobloc calipers for under $1500.

>>> The BR has a quick change feature for the pads, the modern caliper does not

All monoblocs have quick-change pads, Jimmy. Pads come stright out the top, just like the Reds. I change my pads in about, literally, a minute...

OK, so the new monobloc 996tt caliper is smaller, lighter, and uses bigger pads. The monobloc design makes it a stiffer, improving power application. On top of this, the "kit" will cost you more than what BIRA is offering.

This is "a small advantage"?

And, before you trashing BIRA, might you consider why the brake market is in such a tizzy lately, and why "major tuners" like Mov'it are offering discounted prices on brake kits?

Coincidence or competition?

GA

...It's the "reliablility" thing too. Yes, I can hang lighter rotors on the car - iron, aluminum, carbon, whatever. - but what about the service life ? Heavy iron rotors have many good characteristics, one being superior sticky-ness with common pad compounds, another being incredibly resilient to abuse, whether it's overheating or "splash quenching" when driven red hot thru a puddle.

You wrote "Brake designers put mass into their braking systems...until they design their race car brakes. Why?"

Yes, we'll all acknowledge that lighter is better, for perfomance reasons. But those race car brake systems get regular attention....like....every 1-3 hours of drive time. Do the folks who hang "race car" parts on their street cars really check those parts regularly ? I think not. I get 4-10 hours on a set of standard heavy rotors in race use before I throw them away. What's the half-life a lightweight rotor on the street ? Who knows. I'd just rather not be the medical experiment. Some medical experiments fail, you know.

Those big heavy rotors aren't on the car just because they're cheap. They're on there because they last a long time, they give consistant performance and they're not prone to failure.

I don't have a huge problem with people experimenting with "race" parts in their brake systems. I just want them to put a big sign on their roof so I know who they are....and I'll be BEHIND them, not in front of them.

I've seen rebuilds needed on Porsche calipers from track regulars and at one track event and four months of street use, I saw one person with Big Reds on OEM rotors that boiled the high temp fluid and the driver lost braking in a critical turn.
So will you/BIRA perform the rebuild for me when the caliper needs it? A Porsche dealer near me said that they would not be able to cover that, when I asked him about it.

>>> I've seen rebuilds needed on Porsche calipers from track regulars
>>> So will you/BIRA perform the rebuild for me when the caliper needs it?

Are you serious? You're kidding me, right?

You want someone else to pay for your damage when you over-drive your heavy street car in a track environment and tear up the calipers and boil the brake fluid in your non-stock brake kit, a kit which uses components originally designed for a completely different car?

Do the words "Personal Responsibility" mean ANYTHING to you?

There are some days when I wonder why we formed BIRA and ask members to sign the waiver of liability. Then there are days when I see notes like yours that remind me why we went through the rigamarole process to protect our families and our homes.

Please do not join BIRA; you will never be happy there. I ENCOURAGE you to buy off-the-shelf kits from a "tuner" with a 1-800 customer support phone number...<ul><li><a href="http://www.bira.org">Brake Improvement Research Association</a></li></ul>

Sorry about the all-caps, but there are a lot of folks here who don't pay attention to what is written. Where in my post did I trash BIRA? Um, I called you a couple of months ago with the intent to use the BIRA system on my car, but only changed my mind because of the wheel fitment problems that you seem to have (and Movit does not). My business partner, Eric Fluhr, has been in very recent contact with you about a matter that should really establish that I'm not trashing BIRA. Color me confused, Greg.

Fine, let's go through this:

You said: "Correction: "which isn't even offered in a *publicly-announced" BIRA application."
Don't jump to conclusions."

I didn't jump to conclusions. You DON'T offer a 996tt kit yet. I'm looking forward to it, though.

You said: "All monoblocs have quick-change pads, Jimmy. Pads come stright out the top, just like the Reds. I change my pads in about, literally, a minute..."

Yes, I know, but all quick-change schemes are not created equal. Those pads that take you a minute to change on the monoblocs can be changed in seconds with the BR. Check the photo to see why. Those seconds of savings are as valuable to the people on this board as the 1.5 lb. weight difference in calipers. Zero. But, the small things really seem to matter to you. Whatever.

You said: "OK, so the new monobloc 996tt caliper is smaller, lighter, and uses bigger pads. The monobloc design makes it a stiffer, improving power application. On top of this, the "kit" will cost you more than what BIRA is offering.

This is "a small advantage"?"

Well, yes. First of all, what does size have to do with anything? (Stop snickering out there!) The BRs already fit under any relevant 16" wheel and larger, so having a smaller caliper isn't particularly advantageous (unless your kit has wheel fitment problems, I suppose).

The monoblocs are lighter. Okay. HUGE advantage.

Uses bigger pads? Oh? I thought we were talking about BIRA? The Boxster Monobloc has larger pads than the BR? I don't think so. 996 caliper...maybe, but I doubt it. Besides, its difficult to talk about this out of context. It is very important where that larger pad is in the first place. That so much smaller BR pad is further out on a larger rotor with the Movit kit, which I'm guessing eliminates the size advantage thanks to the God of leverage.

Monobloc is stiffer, therefore better power application. Fine. But if I can feel that difference, while I'm dragging my 4000 lb. pig down in a corner...I'll eat my hat.

Never once, ever, ever, ever, nor would I ever, ever, bring up cost. I was comparing CALIPERS, not companies, nor kits. I'm still not sure where you got that. Movit is overpriced, they SHOULD bring their prices down.

SUMMARY:
1. I wasn't trashing BIRA.
2. I was comparing calipers only.
3. I now dub Ranger Bob, Greg Amy, AND myself as "cranky-boys."
4. RB did not make clear which exact caliper he feels is superior to the BR (Boxster or 996?), so I thought I was doing the debate some service by allowing the best available Monobloc to compete (RB was talking about BIRA, I wasn't. See?).
5. The BR will mop the floor with the Boxster caliper.
6. Ranger Bob and I do just fine with our off-list debates, so that is where I will be taking them in the future.
7. I can't wait to hear about the BIRA 996tt kit (that fits under 17" ET35 wheels).

Best regards,

Agreed on all points, Jimmy. Sorry for being a "cranky boy".

Actually, I agree with everything you just said. I was just being overly simplistic with my earlier statement.

(whew) That was easy!

Cheers!

Hmmm, my disappeared off the end of that post...quite important with the printed word and very much intended.

Dang! Did it again! The BRACKET GRIN BRACKET is not showing up and I want to make sure you know I'm grinnin'


Strange...

I mis-spoke. I did not mean to imply that Coleman had anything to do with the design, but rather that the work was done for someone outside of Coleman, and therefore, expensive.

Hopefully, when the day is through, we are all grinnin' here pal!

:-)

(grin attempt above)

Catch ya later,

Let's not let this turn into an episode of Autobahn International tech support/customer service : 101.

You gotta be out of your mind if you think that somebody....anybody....will warranty high performance/race parts that can easily be damaged by ham-fisted/ham-footed drivers on a race track.

Tracks (and streets, for the spudknockers among us) are torture tests for parts in the hands of certain drivers. The inexperienced, and the "just-plain-sucks" kind of driver will overheat/undercool/park on hot their brake systems, while the very same system will survive for a long time in the hands of an experienced driver with some mechanical sympathy.

If you all expect to have high performance parts covered by some warrantee, BIRA will need to have a sliding price scale based on your experience, or lack thereof. 30+ track days or a race license and the system is $1500. Novice or just a dickwad ? That'll be $2800.

As Greg mentioned earlier, there are some buyers who (or is it whom ?) business owners prefer go elsewhere. Some actually have the balls to say that to them. I kinda like those businessmen.

Thanks for the interesting reply. I'm disappointed.

>Do the words "Personal Responsibility" mean ANYTHING to you?

Certainly.

Well, my impression was that the purpose of getting the better brakes liek the ones BIRA represents, was to HAVE a way to stop/slow the heavier vehicle on track. I thought this was for track stuff and not just for show or street use.

Calipers do need maintenance and I have seen defective Porsche calipers. Proven and skilled drivers, not hacks, have had issues with them and in pretty short time. So you tell me that no one would support that and I know that a dealership would not, but I do know that many aftermarket companies out there have AND DO stand behind their kits. No, I'm not talking about abuse or wear and tear per se. Some of the issues I've seen at the track were not abuse and on calipers too new to be worn out.

If I had a problem and I needed assistance in getting that resolved (like I have seen others go through) I know the dealer would be pretty much clueless. That is why I would prefer to have someone with true experience and someone who can fix the problem without extensive headaches. I also like the idea that if it's truly not MY fault that there is a problem, the place I bought it from would fix it or replace it.

You promote BIRA, which I think is great for someone who can rebuild their own brakes. Hopefully, everyone will be so experienced that buys into this. I see those people here wanting 'cheap' upgrades without concern for what they do if they have a real problem.

Oh well. You don't have to worry. I wouldn't join BIRA. Saving money in the short run to lose out in the long run would be too much of a headache. Not to mention that if I needed help or advice, I would just be insulted anyway.

John,
I've always had a lot of respect for what you say and agree with you until now.

The drivers I've seen are in fact experienced and I would think you know that parts certainly can have issues that are not necessarily wear and tear or abuse related. I have seen people with these issues and they have had their parts replaced/repaired under warranty from the race shops and tuners they bought their kits from.

I guess my point was that BIRA is great for people like you and Greg and perhaps others who can repair them themselves or can replace the defective part on your own (at your own cost) but
for the average person on this board with limited ability or experience, is this such a good idea?

Sure, tuners and race shops do charge more money but if that means that they make a profit to stay in business and are able to stand behind their products and are there for the customer that needs assistance. Is this such a bad thing?

1. Warrantee work - Something is bad right from the start (bleeder stripped, weepy seal, missing pieces), or something goes bad after some use. If there is a problem with new stuff then it should be changed out. Something goes bad after use ? It's whole lot more gray then. If it's a defect in workmanship, then the vendor should be on the hook. If there is any question about it being pilot error in install, or abuse, then I don't think the vendor has a responsibility to cover the cost of replacement. Which leads into the next subject...

2. Maintenance/Repair work - OK, I've got 20K miles on my "Whizbang Screaming Big Purple Snotgrabber Stopfast 9000" brake system, and I wanna get my caliper and master seals replaced. The local Whizbang car dealer doesn't want to hear from me cuz the parts aren't bolted to a Whizbang Carrera 4, they're bolted to my Skoda. What to do ? Anyone selling you parts for "off-label" use should, at least, provide some direction as to how to get those parts serviced. I don't care if they do it themselves in house or aim me to another shop that does it, there should be a way to get service.

If somebody sold me Snotgrabber 9000's for my Skoda and then told me to pound salt when I called about service or repair ON MY NICKEL, I'd be really annoyed. I don't know if Greg has addressed this, but I don't think that this thread was drifting in the "non-warrantee service" direction.

I don't know about BIRA, I don't know about any of the tuners. I have a nearly dead stock Audi, and I'm not screwing around with it because I've got 5 freakin race cars in my garage and I've got enough maintenance problems to last a lifetime.

I think this is/was my concern.

Overall the thoery of having a group of people in some fraternity that provides the basis for someone to go get a piece here and a piece there to make their own kit will appeal to those of us who are cost conscious.
However, the big issue I have is that most people I know in the enthusiast scene are rather new to the whole thing and are not experts.
What happens then, is my concern. A bunch of people giving advice over the internet may be all well and good intentioned but ultimately it IS my responsibility, as Greg so aptly puts it. I have to bear the brunt and pain of finding someone to help fix a problem with brakes that were sourced by me as opposed to the ease of calling up the shop where I bought a kit from and having them do the work. Whether I pay to have it done due to wear and tear/abuse or they fix or replace it as a courtesy under warranty.

At the cost of ~$700/pair for coleman rotors and hats, it would make much more economical sense to use
an Alcon 1pc rotor in that same system.
We know the Coleman rotors quite well, we've been using them for years. We also know the quality of
Coleman's machined aluminum work, we make all of our own hats...
My real point is this: The Alcon 1pc rotor for the S4 uses Alcon's proprietary iron alloy and machining
process to provide a rotor that has a higher Cf combined with excellent wear and heat characteristics. We
have seen Alcon rotors outlast oem rotors 5-1 and outlast Colemans 4-1. Yes, the price of admission is
fairly high on a set of Alcon rotors, but they outperform and outlast everything else out there so in the long
run they are actually less expensive. In addition, the one pc casting weighs less than the oem rotor and only
a few ounces more than the 2pc. Another major benefit over the 2-pc from a maintenance standpoint is that
when it is finally time to replace the rotors, there are no rusted bolts to mess with. Definitely a good thing for
a street car. But I may be wrong as most of the "enthusiasts" out there know the price of everything and the
value of nothing.
To really put this in perspective, here is an example of our pricing on replacement rotors and assemblies for
the new S4, in order of performance and price.
OEM $200ea/$400pr
Coleman 12.6" 2-pc with Vortrag mounting hats $275 ea/ $550pr
Alcon 1pc S4 rotors $535ea/ $1070pr

Jason Charron
Vortrag Motorsports