I'm in the market for one of these two cars.

I know this site will be pro Audi, but what are the key reasons and determining factors of choosing an A4 over a 323 Bimmer.

I've test driven both. I like the power and handling of the 323 but like the price, styling and understated look of the A4

Any objective comments are greatly appreciated.

It's simple... I fyou live in an area that has alot of Snow, Rain, or dangerosly twisting road go with the Audi. I fyou live someplace like CA or FL go with the raw speed everytime. I live in Canada and that logic got me through the same debate :)

That's answer's a little too simple. Raw speed can be handled with the addition of a chip (if not familiar with, do a search in the archives under "Chips and Salsa".) Handling can be improved (on both cars) with the addition of spring/shock/sway bar/tire and rim upgrades. This topic could (and has) been debated to death. I would read the recent addition of (I think) Car and Driver (or Road and Track) where they compared these two cars plus the Jetta, Infiniti G20 and one other car that I can't recall the name of. The A4 1.8 T won this comparision but it will give you some pretty unbiased comparisions of these two automobiles.
- Brian A4 97 1.8TQMS

The article was called "Little Big Fun" I think it's available @ Car and Driver's website and definatly worth a look

It depends on what matters most or what is of value for you. I could have gone either way too 3 years ago(A4 & 325i). I decided on the A4 when it wasn't popular then(1995) while the 325i stood supreme in that car category. The A4 on my opinion had the unique identity I was looking for. Aside from that value, design and Quattro made my decision final. I had by the way test drove the newer 323i, 328i and the M3. They're great performance cars however I learned 'power' isn't everything in a car. But if we talk about the S4, well I share no compassion for BMW.

My wife and I have been through the same thing. We actually ordered the 323i, but came to our senses and decided that $30k was too much money to spend. We waited a while and now we are about to buy a 1.8TQMS. You save 5,000 (if you loaded up the 323 like we did) and get quattro to boot. Besides, IMHO the A4 is more fun to drive and I still don't like the look of the new 3. I would be more inclined to buy a 2 year old 328 that has been taken care of than the newest baby bimmer.

P.S. I drive a '88 535i so I'm definently not a bimmer basher.

Well first let's state that you've got a dilemma on your hands, two great german automakes who offer fine cars.

Here are my personal reasons for liking the A4 over the 323.

1.) Quattro. Nothing like it. It not only helps in bad weather, but it was also banned from BTCC for an unfair advantage... that advantage wasn't how well it handled in the rain, it was just because of how well it handled.

2.) With the money you save on the A4, you could do quite a bit of tinkering on it. The $4-5k is enough money to give your audi quite a unique look. You could change the wheels, suspension, add a chip for en extra 50hp, among other options.

3.) The styling behind the A4 is very unique. The 323 still looks a lot like the E36 (which is not bad) but is does still look farily common. I live here in the Chicago suburbs, goto the city often and I see the E36/E46 all the time. At night it's sometimes hard to tell the difference from a distance. The A4 is very uniquely blended with curves and styling cues.

4.) Personally, I see very few modified Audis on a regular basis. I see more M3s than I see A4s with even different wheels(!). I wanted my A4 to be something that people know was mine. BMWs just don't do that for me. I see M3s all the time. If I had bought a used M3 (like I was originally planning) it really wouldn't have been totally unique. My A4 - with the combination of upgrade I am planning will truely be unique. That along with the performance capabilities of the 1.8T engine and quattro were the top reasons for going with audi.

Hope this helps - and good luck in your decision.

Marcus Frost
99.5 1.8TQM (It's out there - somewhere)

1) Remember a stage 1 chipped 1.8T is faster than a 323i, and more fun to drive (my opinion, of course). Chipped 1.8Ts clock 0-60 times in the high 6 second range. If you don't want to chip, then I would have leaned more toward the BMW. Nice silky straight six, but it just isn't a burner and has very little upgrade potential.

2) An A4 with Quattro is a great handler, but it just doesn't FEEL quite like a Bimmer on a twisty road. BMW steering feedback is better, and optimum weight distribution makes them hard to beat on a bright sunny day. Also, while my chipped 1.8T is a blast to drive hard (boost is fun), the turbo four cylinder just doesn't sound as pretty as the BMW.

3) Now that the first model year bugs have likely been worked out, the 323i is probably a decent reliability bet. My '99 tester, which I had for a whole weekend, had a host of quality problems present themselves in that short time. I was not impressed. But like I said, I bet that is mostly solved with the 2000s. The A4 isn't exactly Honda-like in its reliability, though, either.

4) If you live where winter weather is an issue, don't kid yourself into thinking rear-wheel drive with traction control will give you anything close to the safety and control of Quattro. BMW's cornering brake control thing and traction control are just band-aids for an inherently bad slippery conditions set-up. On dry roads, obviously, BMWs have inherently the best set-up for spritied driving.

5) In most areas, an A4 will be more "exclusive" in that there aren't as many around, if that's important to you. It is to some people (not me).

They are both great cars. Hard to pick a wrong one.

BDW '99 1.8Tqms (Wett, K&N)

Spend the money you save on upgrades. This is a great forum and you'll get excellent advice. The A4 is a great platform to take you in many different directions. If you want luxury, it's got it with many convenience features for the price. If you want something that matches the BMW in speed, chip it (there are many good chips out there that will provide a satisfying drive). If you want an all out race car, there are many more parts for the 1.8T than for the 323i. You can modify the engine in excess of 240hp (M3 country), redo the suspension, brakes, transmission, you name it. Great car and great value. Oh, by the way, did I mention you get Quattro all wheel drive as well?

Once the archives are back up, there is a lot written on this. As long as you are comparing a BMW 323 to an Audi A4 - 2.8, then things are close. If comparing to a 1.8, then price becomes a factor. The big difference to me was that the BWN offers better road feedback in the steering. Since i just got my A4, I can say that with the sports package, the quattro makes up for it. I have included a link to the post I wrote yesterday - skip the first half and head towards the bottom. I compare several of the features to the 323.<ul><li><a href="http://www.a4.org/forum/m/a4/157693.phtml">http://www.a4.org/forum/m/a4/157693.phtml</a</li></ul>

just ordered a 2000 a4, am currently driving a 93 325is. the one overriding factor that led me to an a4 was VALUE. awd, 4 doors(lower insurance on a new a4 than a six year old bmw!!!!!), for all you hear here - excellent reliability, and again awd - here in chicago, my bmw is undrivable 2 months a year, traction control on a rwd car is at best a band aid. i will miss my wonderful, torqe - y inline six,especially on dry country roads, but i look forward to 190 hp,not getting stuck in 2 inches of snow, and a great service plan/warranty for less money.

I went through this myself last year, and the 323i was a close second to the A4. Most of the major points have been covered. Both are great cars. I prefer the many comfort and convenience features of the A4 and prefer the control layout to that of the BMW. Also, the A4 is more luxurious and a great long distance cruiser. When it comes to performance, the nod goes to the BMW (though not by much), but I find the A4 more fun to drive. Also, and very significant, the A4 is an easier car to drive well. It is much more forgiving and will make you feel like a better driver than you are. It always makes me look good at autocrosses ;-).

Take them both for a long test drive (at least an hour) and really put them through their paces. If you don't feel comfortable pushing the limits of these cars, ask the salesperson to show you what they can do. If after that it's still a toss up, option them out with the equipment you would want and see if you can justify the extra cost of the BMW (you've got to strip it down to get the prices close) to yourself (remember, liking it better IS a valid justification). Both are excellent cars and you can't go wrong either way.

Regards,
Rodney

'99 A4 1.8tqms

This is semi-serious, based on some postings on Edmunds. A BMW 323 owner was exhilarated when he touched the gas on a rainy curve and his car went into a power-slide, and he got to handle his car back into line. If that sounds exciting to you, go for the bimmer. If touching the gas on a rainy curve and going right where you point the car is what you want, pick the Audi Quattro.

I do not intend to flame anyone, but the fact that i am infact a 323i owner might make this seem as a flame. The 323 does 0-60 in 7.1/8.2 (man./step.) and the 1.8T does it in 8.4/9.8 (man./tip.). This is clearly a big difference. Now if you compare modified cars, the 1.8 os MUCh easier to get great results from, but in stock form, the Bimmer wins by a large margin.

Once again, this is NOT intended to be a flame.

<ul><li><a href="http://vu.union.edu/~allenw">Will's A4 page</a></li></ul>

<ul><li><a href="http://donp.tzo.com/info/audiad.htm">http://donp.tzo.com/info/audiad.htm</a</li></ul>

Yes no question, the BMW is quicker off the line. But that's the only place it really soundly beats the A4. In the handling and braking departments things are much closer (with the nod still going to the 323i). Also, I don't put a lot of weight on 0-60, I'm more concerned with passing (20-50, 60-80, etc.) and things are a lot more even here (again the BMW still wins out). My point is that the A4 is easier to drive well than the BMW. If you miss an apex or get back on the gas too soon, the A4 will cover for you, the BMW requires more of your attention to drive hard. If my decision had been solely based on performance, I'd be driving a BMW right now. Obviously it wasn't, I felt that the BMW's performance edge was not significant enough (and much of it would disappear with a chip) to outweigh the Audi's advantages in other areas.

But, these are two great cars, which is why I always counsel people in this dilemma to drive both for themselves and decide which is right for them. Each has its strengths, and only the individual buyer can decide which set of strengths is right for them.

Regards,
Rodney

'99 A4 1.8tqms