Very favorable comments to the A8. Kind of nice to see such unbiased writing in a BMW club magazine. If any of you also have BMW's you should join BMWCCA just for this magazine. Overall, they liked both cars but thought the A8 was a bit more nimble. However, they felt the BMW was bit better when pushed in feedback to the driver.

KJK 91 M5

Just a few facts:
70MPH - 0 MPH
2000 A8 202ft.
2000 740il 168ft.

Skidpad (g)
2000 A8 .77
2000 740il .83

Emergency lane change MPH
2000 A8 55.7MPH
2000 740iL 60MPH

Stops better, handles better and it's more agile (source C&D November 1999 tested: 2000 A8 Q, 2000 740iL, 2000 Benz S430, Jag etc....)

I expected at least better figured on the skidpad because the A8 is lighter (300lbs lighter), has AWD... and it's wider.

Better suspensions and Yokohama's AVS could help quite a bit.

Don't mean to burst your bubble.


Charles

Who cares, everybody drives a BMW. Plus the 7 series looks like it was designed in the 80's. They need to update it badly so it looks like the beautiful other BMW's. It is currently their ugliest car by a long shot, the A8 and S8 are infinetly more attractive to look at. Plus, I put Porsche brakes, and kick ass tires on my car for just a few thousand dollars so it will perform equally or better. I can honestly say I would be embarassed to drive a BMW just because you see so many of them every single day, as much as Hondas it seems like.

Plus, you can expect positive Audi comments here. You are in an Audi forum, you do realize that right? I know you can find about 5 million other people to praise BMWs with you, we aren't here to hear about BMW's, you get that everywhere else so keep your BMW pride among them. Every person here has their reasons for buying the A8 over the 7 series, we don't care why anybody thinks the 7 series is better. I hope you cease your BMW campaign here and now, this is not the place and if you persist I will share with everyone here about your history so they know you are not a serious man and should not be taken seriously.

I am sorry to everybody else for this but this person has a very, very bad history on the Internet for absolutely destroying public forums and I am willing to get quite nasty to keep him from doing his work on this one.

Dear Bart:

You see... I didn't start the comparison BS. I own both cars and I posted FACTS. You must live in a VERY rich town to state that everybody has a 7 series. I own an A8 as well and I can tell you that there is NO COMPARISON. I love the BMW styling... beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It doesn't help me one bit to put the A8 down because... after all I OWN one too. (Forest green over ecru).

Now, please accept the fact that as a BMW owner I wanted to express my opinion as well. If everybody is allowed to say whatever they feel without interaction, that is not a FORUM.

As an Audi A8 (S8ish) owner I can also understand the advantages of this car but... I expressed MY OPINION. Respect that and don't bring it to a personal level. Bottom line:

The 7 brakes better, handles better and is much more fun to drive. The main difference between me and you is that I don't mess with perfection, take the A8 for what it is and the 7er for what it is.

They are 2 different cars for different people. I even have Yokohamas, MTech suspensions, Dinan engine mods and more on my 7er... I sure can afford both as I have them but the 7er suits my needs while the A8 is good for my wife (she also has an M3 Convertible...). Unless you can bring NUMBERS that differ with the ones I posted, my post was totally accurate and objective.

Charles

Charles,

His post was not insultive to the 7 series at all. It was complimentary to both cars, I did not see that article or any post here, other than mine, insult any car.

My point is this, any A8 owner could have purchased a 7 series or S class. Everybody here has already finished the debate of which to buy and enjoy. This forum is for A8 owners to enjoy the cars they already have. BMW owners get mighty defensive at the notion that anybody might think a car is better than theirs and lash out and that sucks.

I am in Florida right now. Today I saw 6 7 series BMW's and not a single A8 the whole time I have been here or even on the drive here from Seattle. I don't know numbers but I would estimate that there are at least 30 times as many 7 series running around than A8's, at least from what I see. I drove both the Benze and the BMW, The Audi and BMW are both more fun than the MB but both the Audi and the BMW are a total blast to drive. People choose the Audi for a reason and it is a better choice than the BMW for people who bought one. Get over it and quit being a typical BMW owner that there is no other car as good. It is silly for you to tout the goodness of the BMW here, we already know and we already made our choice.

Car, BMW, Honda & Driver magazine always loves the BMW cars. Automobile Magazine prefers the A8. Who is right? Both. But don't expect people here to like BMW's better, this is an Audi forum. You can find ten times as many sites out there for BMW's. Go to those to talk about 7 series.

One other thing. On my way out here I stopped to visit some friends in Mt. View California. At a local car speedy car detailing joint a man came up to me who had a lowered 540 and introduced himself as Steve Dinan. He said he loved the A8 and liked my car with the Porsche brakes very much. He asked a lot of questions about the brake upgrade and was a very nice man and totally complimentary to the Audi. Not a typical "Mine is best and you better ****ing know it" BMW owner at all, just a guy who likes good cars and realizes that many companies make fine automobiles. As I have said on many occasions, I have no problems with BMW's just BMW owners. I was terrified to become one.

Bart:

You get a bit too difensive. I didn't put the A8 down in any way (especially when due to the bad wetaher it was my only reliable way to get to work at decent speeds). My argument is that it's a totally stupid comparison. They are for different people. I like the "ultimate tech toy" that the A8 is, I like the fact that it's very innovative, but I hate the fact that no matter it's reduced weight, the braking capabilities and handling are poor. Audi doesn't need much to fit the Porsche calipers and 18" wheels on the car standard. They have them in house... When I consider that in 16K miles the Audi has had:

3 sets of front rotors
Valve cover gasket (twice)
Water pump
Alternator
Climate control head unit (twice)
Heated steering wheel
I front driver seat cover (the leather skin)
Battery
... now the windshield
replaced, while the 7er at 18+K miles had just 2 sets of brake pads, front rotors and a shifter rattle... You know what I believe the problem is...

When I drive the A8 there are also a lot of people asking all type of silly questions... While with the BMW they ask if it has a V12 and how fast it is. The ones that know what BMW stands for, ask how well it hugs the road. Overall, I buy the car for my satisfaction and not to attract attention nor to turn it into a showpiece.
I don't care about how other BMW owners are, I also know several Audi owner that had to come and brag about how well their car goes into the snow... While that is true, the fact that BMW are sportier driving is also true. Take the A8 for what it is! It's a very nice couch on wheels, drives anywhere, it's quite and very safe.

I only get defensive because of your history and it's justifiable.

BMW owners get very upset when they think somebody believes another car is better than a BMW. Well you need to know that everybody who participates in this group thinks the A8 is a much better car than the 7 series. We all do and that is why we bought one over the 7. I could afford a 7 very easily but the Audi A8 is a much better car, it wasn't even a close decision for me and I haven't looked longingly at a 7 since. You have to expect that opinion in an Audi only forum and if you don't like it then leave because that's what people here believe, AUDI MAKES BETTER CARS THAN BMW. Besides, you'll get bored of your BMW when the next trendy car comes along anyway. I will be working towards getting an S8 here.

Bart:

Trendy was the S class... I don't care about trend, I care about the car that makes my ride enjoyable. If the C5 had 4 seats, that will be far better than the 7.

You are criticizing BMW owners because you believe that they are stuck up and think that they owne the best car. Instead you just make a statement that the A8 is far better... Something is wrong in this picture. I limited myself in stating that they are both very good cars but each one excles in different fields. If you can live with that, you can turn it into a constructive discussion. And one more thing... I drive my 7 just like I drive my C5. The A8 can't withstand that much abuse, it is not designed to be operated that way. The S Class is the same, the XJR I briefly had before the 7 was the same thing. These, along with the A8 are for people that seek uncompromised comfort, and a pretty fast car. The 7 is far more involving yet some people don't like that. The A8 is a very forgiving car, the 7 is not. I will need more that 2 hands to count how many times the A8 saved my ass while pushing it. The BMW did it too in it's way (the stupid DSC), but with the A8 is seamless. My mother for example, will rather walk than take the 7, she complains that it feels heavy (that's true), it's too big (subjective), rides to harsh (subjective), too flashy (subjective)... And she ends up using the A8 when she needs a loaner car (delaer doesn't have loaners).

Live with the fact that I am very happy with my 7 and I do appreciate the A8 for what it is. I never bashed the A8, while you did bash the 7er.

Charles

Perhaps not, but you jumped at the chance to rub numbers in somebody's face who posted information about an article that compared the A8 favorably to the 7 (BMW magazine too, did you read it?) because like many BMW owners you were appalled that somebody might have thought his car was as good as your BMW and had to take actions to correct that opinion quickly. How come I didn't see you mention that the A8 has a better engine? More refined and more powerful? How come I didn't hear you mention that the A8 was quicker? Faster? (With the limiter removed on both.) You answered a very polite post about both cars with only the intention of pointing out some numbers (Which don't mean as much in a car for this type of market, they are not sports cars.) that made your car look better. The original post was not one sided, yours was, I responded with like since I know how you can get. As I stated before it is useless to compare a 7 series and a A8 in this forum because everybody here already did and picked the better car. The debate is over and I have not heard a single person here regret their choice. Also, you need to go drive a 2000 A8, it is a much different car in many ways than your 97 or 98.

Here is some of the article, the summary, reprinted from Bimmer Magazine. It would seem like this magazine dedicated to BMW's likes both cars very well.

<B>"</B>Though we wish we could arrive at a conclusion in which we proclaim one car or the other as the superior automobile, it's simply impossible in this case. The BMW performs better in nearly every quantifiable aspect, save for engine performance and interior comfort, so it would be perfectly sensible to choose it for that reason alone. However, <FONT COLOR="#0000DD"><B>the Audi is a truly alluring car that inspires us in a way that BMW simply can't</B></FONT>. As good as it is, <FONT COLOR="#BB0000"><B>we just didn't look forward to driving the 740 as much as we did the A8</B></FONT>. The BMW is more remarkable than special; it surprises with its capabilities, yet feels like a rather ordinary big car most of the time. <FONT COLOR="#008800"><B>The Audi, however, makes driving a special event every time you turn the key</B></FONT>.

Driving the BMW is like dancing with a fat man and being surprised by his grace and agility. Driving the Audi, on the other hand, is like having a partner so handsome and suave that you'll forgive him if he steps on your toes now and again. The one you prefer depends on whether you like to lead from your heart or from you head.<B>"</B>

I did indeed drive a few 2000 Audis. The A6 with the 4.2 (quite impressed) and the 2000 A8. I found the A8 to be cheaper than the previous A8s, look at the stereo, the steering wheel, the leather... I do have connoley leather on mine (as all 97s and 98s), the car is higher, the separate fog lights look cheap... they even did away with the double pane glass. Sorry but the older ones were better built and looked much better (in my opinion). On the other hand, if the A6 V8 was less $$$ I would buy it on the spot. I never posted that the BMW is a better car all around, if you look at C&D the Audi A8 came in 3rd, the Lexus was 2nd and the 740il was THE BEST (for them).

... On a side note... even the buttons are cheper in the 2000 A8. I never trust what the magazines state, I make my opinion by driving the car. The armrest on the older A8s was a "sculpture" with it's alluminum stand. Now it's a common armrest. Except for the 5 valve engine, the older A8s were a tribute to innovation and VALUE. I will give you the fact that the A8 can do 163MPH... while my 750iL can only reach 158MPH (I will try on a longer stretch of road)... but it stops on a dime. One more observation... the 740iL has more torque than the A8, the 740iL has 22 Lbs of extra torque and a perfect 50-50 weight distribution. While the extra 250 lbs. doesn't make for a "fat car" I will say that you do feel them but you learn how to deal with them.

Now, I admitted that the A8 excels under certain aspects, why do you still want to prove that it's a better car in EVERYTHING?

Charles

Because this is an Audi forum which you can't seem to accept. I see way to many soccer mom's driving BMW's. When I see an Audi driver I know it is somebody who understands cars and thinks a purchase out. Sorry, but the Audi A8 is a much better car than the 7 in pretty much every regard. Let me post a few lines from the BIMMER (dedicated BMW magazine.) in case you missed them. Keep in mind, this IS an Audi forum. Why don't you go praise BMW's in a forum with the other soccer moms? The Audi is better in every conceivable way, but I will give you that the BMW rides harsher.

<B>

.....the Audi is a truly alluring car that inspires us in a way that BMW simply can't.

....., we just didn't look forward to driving the 740 as much as we did the A8.

The BMW ..... feels like a rather ordinary big car most of the time.

The Audi, however, makes driving a special event every time you turn the key.

Driving the BMW is like dancing with a fat man....

</B>Straight from Bimmer, a dedicated BMW magazine. I hope you're not surprised to fine people praising Audis in an Audi forum. We have all already decided that it is a superior machine over the BMW so why are you even here? In my next reply I will dig out my Automobile collection and fine the issue where it won the Luxury Car Superstar award and reprint that. They REALLY like it over the 7 series in every way. It is David E. Davis' favorite car and the car he would own if he could only have one. So, from all this it is only logical to conclude that Audi makes a better car than the BMW. I hope you understand Charles that you are in an Audi forum but you don't understand much so I don't expect you will be able to grasp that concept either. Just on a closing note I would like to add that the Audi A8 is better than the 7 series with the exception that the 7 series is fatter.

Some people don't have to "make the choice".
I have both and I feel that I can express a rather un-biased opinion.

If you had the 7er you would be bragging about that, just like you do with your Corvette C5 (I have ne too....)

Charles
http://www.aircrewtax.com/pers/index.htm

Hey did you see what Bimmer Magazine, a magazine dedicated to BMW's by the way, had to say when comparing the two?

.....the Audi is a truly alluring car that inspires us in a way that BMW simply can't.

....., we just didn't look forward to driving the 740 as much as we did the A8.

The BMW ..... feels like a rather ordinary big car most of the time.

The Audi, however, makes driving a special event every time you turn the key.

Driving the BMW is like dancing with a fat man....

If I did have a 7 series and liked it I would probably be bragging about it BUT NOT IN AN AUDI GROUP YOU IDIOT, I WOULD DO IT IN A BMW GROUP WHERE IT BELONGS. You only do it here because you are a childish ******* with deep routed emotional problems where you have to prove everything you own is the best. You are a sick ****, get help, your car sucks because it's yours, it was a stupid choice because you made it. Nobody likes you. Get help sad boy.

Like most people here I even own an A8 (4,2 quattro Tiptronic), beside my old V8 4,2 Automatic. Before buying the A8 i drove several BMW 7-Series E38 including an 740i and an 750i.

The BMW 7-Series are great cars (like A8 and S-Class, none of them is a real bad choice). They have a far better suspension than the A8´s which provides a really harsh ride, especially for a luxury car (the optional Audi Sports Suspension is a really more harmonic choice). The 7-Series even has a more direct steering (the A8´s is very indirect) which gives a better handling on curvy roads but even submits all influences from the road. The weakest point of the 7-Series is the weight. Driving a 7 is like driving a tank. The A8 feels very light, lighter than even an A4. And even when the performance of an 750i is a tad better than the A8´s the Audi subjectively feels much more active. Not to forget the A8 has a bigger inside room than the standard 7-Series (not L-Version, of course), a non-rustable body and the quattro drivetrain (which was the point why I took the A8)...

IMHO BMW made a mistake with the E38 7-Series which was more oriented on the MB client´s wishes than for the E32 customers that got a sportive luxury car. So they built a very conservative car that brought a lot of customers to Audi, but BMW even caught a big number of potential S-Class clients. That´s buisness...

BMW 7 and A8 are cars with different characters. Unlike other BMW´s the actual 7-Series is a big and heavy luxury car for soft cruising, but far away from being a performance car. The A8 is more a car for the self-driver than for people with chauffeurs. It misses the last bit of comfort but provides more activity. Both are very good cars...

Benjamin

Oh, I forgot the brakes: the BMW 7-Series has a very good brake, but the Audi HP2-brake used in the A8 and old S6 is better. But I heard some US models have different brakes (smaller) than my German A8...

Benjamin