don't you think audi will up the ante on its current engines? Ok, this is pure speculation, and I could be dead wrong, but I bet audi will get about 220 hp from its v6 a4, and I also think they will use the stock 180 hp version of the 1.8t (I know, simply a chip, but most of the public doesn't know better). This would avoid most cannibalization from the VW line. Also, they must have their v6 compete with the upcoming BMW 330's.

Where does that leave the S4 with only a few more ponies than the standard v6? Actually, I don't think it would matter, because ALL of the S4's will continue to sell, and the available torque will keep it being a fast car.

Even if nothing has been announced, does anybody agree or disagree with the logic here? Let's hear what you think!

-rob

98 jetta GLX (trade bait)
98 A4 2.8qts (wife's)
00 S4 (still in C status)

I believe that the 1.8t in the TT and Beetle is different than that in the A4 and Passat. According to every tech sheet I've seen, the A4 1.8t has a longer stroke and smaller bore than the Beetle 1.8t. In fact ...(intermission)... I just called VW and confirmed this. The A4 1.8t woudl not fit in the Beetle, so they use a bored version of the same block... however, the stroke is decreased approriately. Whether this affects the HP of future cars, I don't know.

--Justin Glatz
<b>BMW:</b> Eurospec E31, built in Munsch, Germany; imported and federalized at port in CA, via port in China, during 1998 from original collector in Thailand.
<b>Mitsubishi:</b> Iceman Cold Air Intake, Sachs Stage III clutch, Stillen Lightweight-Forged Flywheel, HKS Cat Back, Headers, 50-Shot NOS (w/purge), 8.8mm Ignition Wires, Stage II Lightweight (~275lbs), Velocity Stack, Progress Springs, KYB Shocks/Struts, Custom Lifted Rear, Moda (BBS) 17" Wheels, FSTB, RSTB, Brake Cooling System, Short Throw Shifter, Aluminum Pro Seat, 300mm Wheel, Razo Shifter, OBX Pedals, RCI 5pt. Latch-type Harnesses, Redline Trans. Fluid, Mobil Engine Fluid, Boston Acoustic Pro 6.4 fronts, Eclipse 6x9 rears, (2) Rockford 10"RF, Orion Cobalt 2105, Kenwood Excelon KDC-8007 (coming soon: Port & Polished Head, HKS Cams, Oversized Valves, AEM Sprockets)
<b>Suzuki:</b> 1/4 Turn Throttle, (coming soon: Stage I Jet Kit, K&N, Yoshimura Race Pipe)

VW is building the $50K W12 "Grand Passat" to compete with Mercedes, so I don't know if logic will play a big part. If they're going to do something in that price range, particularly with AWD, it should be an Audi.

nt

;-)

... I didn't realize how idiotic that was turning out! Yes, I am trying to work that out... integrating the form HTML and the board's HTML is trickier than others I have been using this signature on. Thanks! Humbly--Justin ;-)

...they'd probably rebadge it here as an Audi.

According to the Peich (sp?), VW is aiming to compete with Mercedes-Benz while they're positioning Audi to compete with BMW.

Andy Hedin

nt

nt

The Passat has been here for a while, gotten all sorts of praises, and you can buy a 30v V6 Passat w/ leather (Audi, I want leather on the 1.8t) for less than an A4 1.8t. Both cars are selling extremely well. The rest of the VW line simply doesn't compete with the A4. The VR6 in the current and previous generation Jetta and Golf are better (at least stock) than the 1.8t, but there's a reason people have been buying A4's even though these options have been available, it's a better car all around (a lot better).

I really think Audi should bring the 180hp A4 to North America, at least as an option (it would be great to have access to Quattro GMBH packages over here), and I don't think it would canibalize many (if any) A4 2.8 sales. I hope they do, but, I'm not holding my breath.

Regards,
Rodney

'99 A4 1.8tqms

nt

Most also said that they wouldn't be able to sell a $20+K VW, and Passats are selling like hot-cakes.

The whole Audi vs. BMW and VW vs. MB makes sense. They want to leave the luxo-sport class to Audi, while VW goes after the comfort crowd. The Passat gained popularity when people started comparing it to the competition, if this Passat Plus manages to do as well, then it will sell. Though I don't know where this leaves the A8 or the Passat "Sport"... they are both in between these lines.

How can the golf/jetta v6 have more power than the passat v6? They can't let this happen...I am sure that the 30 valve v6 will be updated for more hp if the vr6 comes here with 204 hp.

Also, does anybody else agree that it would have been MUCH easier to have Audi compete with mercedes and leave BMW to VW? I know this wouldn't have been good for the sportiness of Audis, but it just seems that this would have made more sense for Piech.

Sorry Justin, but the engines are identical in terms of both Bore and Stroke, check the official Audi website and VW website. Furthermore, it would make no sense to change the dimensions since they share pistons, rods and other engine internals (valves etc.) with the 30V V6.

However, there are more differences than just the motronic system. The 180hp version shares most of the upgrades of the 225 hp version, without the upgraded, rods and crank journal bearings, K04 and the twin intercoolers. The 180hp version has a different intake, cylinder head, K03 and forged pistons and different exhuast manifold.

Audi is already (and has been) competing directly and indirectly with BMW. If they did that they would have shifted Audi out of its niche AND VW out of its niche as well. This way, VW can hang on to its niche while it moves upscale. VW won't be able to compete directly with Mercedes for a while, but the Golfs, Jettas, Beetles, and regular Passats will continue to be good midpriced cars, and a $50,000 12 cylinder car would be pretty damn tempting. That should give the C and E class some trouble (IF they do it right). It will be interesting to see how they execute this strategy.

Regards,
Rodney

'99 A4 1.8tqms

.

According to a post on the TT forum from a very reliable source, Audi recently announced that it will be using a version of VW's W12 engine in an car based on an elongated A8 platform. Also, the Passat which will receive this engine will be based upon the same platform, but will use steel rather than aluminum body panels.

.

What other corporate giant competes with one of its own makes?
Toyota stops at about $30K and lets Lexus take it from there....
Honda lets Acura fight it out in the luxury market....as does Nissan with Infiniti
Why is VW trying to sell cars in a similar price range to Audis.
It should stick to $15-28K cars and let Audi take it from there....after $70K, there's always Bentley and Lamborghini to take it from there

What the hell is VW thinking???

In the rest of the world Infiniti, Lexus, and Acura don't exist. They only created the "luxury" nameplates for the US market, thinking that Americans were so image concious we needed to differentiate. Kind of embarrassing if you ask me.

Regards,
Rodney

'99 A4 1.8tqms