for those perhaps wishing to go from a VW (Jetta) to an Audi A4 or A6. It is going to be a great alternative for those wishing the practicality of VW accompanied by some of the power and luxury of the Audi.

I'm not big on 0-60 times but 6.5-6.7 seconds is plenty fast for a Passat. The interior is nice too ableit different. After seeing the new A4 and the photoshops of the new A6, I have recanted my testimony arguing that there would be too much similarity.

The cars are diverging again (I always posted that disclaimer) aesthetically and the Passat looks like a Passat and the Audi looks like an Audi. Yes, there are many shared parts but Audi is adding more things to the technological mix (yes April/Steve I know you have been saying this) which more than differentiate the two.

I think the new W8 Passat will be a fantastic choice to have on the table for VW and Audi owners. If you are in an Audi but wish to downsize and retain similar performance and luxury you can Passat W8 your way through. If you are in an older Passat or newer Jetta but want to upsize a greater degree in terms of total performance, size, and luxury you can Audi A4/A6 your way through.

I am beginning to be sold on the strategy now. This is chiefly due to the Audi's greater than six degrees of separation from VW in terms of looks and technology. There will be no mistaking the newer A4/A6/A8 for any Volkswagen from the outward appearance alone. The Volks has evolved to fill the current design shoes of the A6.

My .02 on the subject that really should be in VW Vortex forums.

I edited to add:

The new A4 will more closely resemble the Old (current) A6. The naturaly progression will be from the new Passat to the A4 to the A6 in terms of leading the herd from a design perspective. The new A6 and A8 will not resemble the A4 as closely as they do now. Much like the old A4 and the current A6. Did you get that?

Anyway here is a quote:
"We believe there is room for both brands in this market segment," said Robert Buchelhofer, VW's director of sales and marketing. VW does not plan on sharing the W8 with Audi, although a W12 is slated for an upcoming Audi A8. The W8 will, however, be available in the Skoda Montreux sold in Europe.

Chairman Piech wants VW to be a major competitor to Mercedes-Benz on the two companies' home turf. But in this country, VW and M-B are rarely part of the same conversation, let alone products seriously shopped against one another. M-B, with its C-Class wagon and coupe, is moving into VW's U.S. territory, in both size and price. With the features packed into the Passat W8, Herr Piech is hoping to change some perceptions of the company that gave us the Bug and Microbus. Horsepower has a way of doing that.



Brian

it means only trouble for Audi. There are too many brands in the VW Group stable, all competing for market share. Now they will start competing with each other, and not just VW vs. Audi. The brands below VW (in Europa) are being raised to where they will now compete against VW. This is the sort of insanity that cripples GM. Stop the madness!

<ul><li><a href="http://www.autoweek.com">http://www.autoweek.com</a</li></ul>

I'm not sure of the relative stature of VW and Audi outside the US. In the US, Audi is the premium brand and VW is "entry level european." Crossing over the two lines will steal sales from Audi, without question.

Maybe we in the US are obsessed with upward mobility, but I cannot see many buyers going from Audi to VW. In crisis, you go from Audi to older Audi! However, if Audi becomes too closely associated with VW, I can see people moving from Audi to BMW, Mercedes Benz or even Jaguar. It's not about status as much as it's about being perceived as a savvy buyer. I would not want to be perceived as paying top dollar for technology that could be had for much less under the VW label.

The GM analogy is a little bit off. GM took mediocre technology and tried to pawn it off as quality in Olds and Cadillac. VW is taking their best stuff and putting it in the "everyman" label.

Suspension comments make it sound like a non-sport version of the A6. Makes sense as many Passat clients are not the current sporty counter culture people of the Jetta/Golf. They come from Volvo, domestics, Camry and Accord buyers. The car will be plenty sporty for them. Stickshift is not planned for the US. The wagon is up in the air for making the trip here.

Should represent a fantastic value. There a lot of people driving domestic cars that would not consider an Audi, but will be happy to have a 'Dub.

You take a VW owner up the cost of ownership ladder, both in terms of purchase price and maintenance cost, and drop them off right at the front door of Audi. In terms of the W8, you have dropped them off in the living room of Audi.

Previously, there existed a fairly large price gap between the two brands. Much of this was due to the actual production costs because the cars did not share as many internals. As they have moved to a similar platform for all makes & models the production costs are mitigated.

The margins on both vehicles increase even in a deflationary environment because production cost is decreasing at a greater rate than sale price. Much greater pricing cushion in both VW and Audi. Perfect timing for this economy looking at a 24 month horizon.

Getting back to my point, the VW owner getting rid of an up line Passat or even Jetta will be very close in price to the Audi offerings. The consumer logic will be in place that "we can afford this, so we can afford a little more." You have nice progression from brand to brand within the same company.

In the meantime, your largest selling brand continues to appeal to the first time buyer with many quirky and affordable/fun entry level vehicles. The process is a loop. Keep adding to your market share conveyor belt.

Meanwhile, your newer and older Audi client base is being placated with aesthetic designs which allow for some of the exclusivity sought when purchasing an up market vehicle. In addition, you have Quattro to toe the line in terms of a feature/benfit stalwart. (yes, I know 4motion is the same)

However, your margins on the Audi will be even greater because the perception is far greater than the reality in terms of internal differences. The shared platforms allow for you to focus on aesthetic differences which give you greater profit. Audi is smart enough to throw in some technology to stave off crtics who will argue it is badge engineering.

It's badge engineering with a twist. The only thing(s) that will throw this strategy off the track are:

1. Economic collapse (global)
2. Consumer rejection via purchasing decisions
3. Feedback from the client base (a long-shot)

O.K., I'm sold on the strategy from a business profitability perspective. I don't have to subscribe to it as an end user/consumer. I can vote my disapproval with my dollars. However, voting my disapproval requires that there be a competetive alternative to my choice of vehicle. There was not a viable alternative to Audi when I purchased my A6. That is changing. We shall see.

Bri

... saw a new Passat and shouted "That looks like Daddy's car!" Ouch.

"Yes, kids, but Daddy paid much more for his."

My kids (3, 3 and 5) are amazing at distinguishing makes and models, and they are not influenced by labels. The Passat is the closest thing on the road, visually to the A6. It's a tribute to both cars, but the Passat owner seems a bit more savvy. With the W8, it can only get worse.

I am a bit confused by this new strategy as well.
I have owned two Passats. The newest model is a 2001.5 B5.5 V6 the old one was a 99 1.8t.Both 5-speeds.
Would I say my car compares to the A6 or A4. Not really. I mean the car compares very favorably to the Camary and the Accord. But, the Audis seem to be a couple of steps above when we talk about finished product. Better feel all around.
With Merc now taking direct aim at Bimmer, and adding more and more sporty models to the lineup, how can we say Merc is simply a luxury brand for VW to attack, while Bimmer is a sporty brand for Audi to attack. It's not that simple.
Vw will be creating a new market segment.

If the respect VW hopes to gain is ever achieved, then they will be competing directly with Audi. There will be many people who will compromise, and buy a VW W8 over the A6 3.0 based on the stat sheets and preceived value. This could take years. But look what buyers will be faced with

VW Passat W8-
Similar size to A6
8cylinder
4-motion-which eventually people will learn this is actually quattro
GPS-VW may have an in dash 8 inch screen before Audi does in this country
Nice interior-not as nice as A6 but will it be enough?
Cheaper price/package

However, one element is missing. Status.

I lurk around the Golf/Jetta board on vwvortex and they sure seem to have more build quality/part quality issues than we do.

If I was going to pay what this monster Passat is going to cost, I would damn well expect it to be built to high levels.

in a Passat as an A5 with a W8? it's cool.
although the 4 motion is not quattro.