I want an Audi, but my price range is more of a Saturn. Should I just say screw it, let's get in debt and get an Audi? Not that I'm looking for a biased opinion on the Audi A4 forum... hehehe<p>

<br>nt

How Bad? Pictures? It would be cool to see the crumple zones. Get the A4.<br>Its a good time to go in debt. The economy needs consumers like us.

I sold my Saturn and bought an A4 1.8t about a year ago.<p>I am in a little debt, but it's just something you work into your monthly budget. It'll be paid off in a few years.<p>I don't regret getting the A4. It's been the best car I've ever owned in my entire life. <p>

Two of my friends sold their 95 and 96 VW Jetta and got a 96 2.8V6 and a 1.8TQM respectively. So, I think it tells you how in demand these cars are. Therefore, just go ahead and get one for yourself, you will not regret it.<p>Good luck,<p>Oscar<br>97.5 1.8TQM

So there is heavy traffic on the 10 FWY in the morning (surprise, NOT!) and this guy is merging from the onramp onto the freeway. The traffic was very slow, and the guy was speeding up but quickly running out of acceleration zone; so he Jerks the steering wheel over because he's about to run into the wall, and so he cuts in front of the car in front of me. So, He brakes, and so do I. He brakes so hard that the rear tail of his car sticks up, I don't brake in time, and I rear end him. But because his rear end stuck up, his bumper struck my grill and lights. and so my car is "toothless" kind of looks like Mike Tyson. <p>No crumpling, the car is a tank!

Check out a VW Passat. Same engine, same transmission, slightly larger body, 3-10k less expensive. Use the excess for performance mods.

Check out a VW Passat. Same engine, same transmission, 3K - 10K less. Use the extra momey for performance mods.

So tell me there is a world of difference between the two cars. I was thinking I either get an Audi or just settle for something cheap and reliable. I refuse to drive any rice rockets (Civic, integra, accord etc..) and so I probably would have bought a Saturn. But I would much rather own an Audi. Question is, do I get more than twice the car, because a Saturn is half to price...

When I bought my 98.5 A4, I had originally intended on getting an Accord. I looked at them and I did not really like them. But, I did not want to spend a lot of money for a car. I looked at Camry, Maxima, 626ES, Passat, and Saturn's best. The Saturn was the only one that I did not drive. Just sitting in it was enough for me to realize that my wife's Civic at $3K less was a better car. I really liked the Passat and wanted one, but the availablility was an issue. Broke down and drove the A4. That was the end of the story. I spent more money than I had intended, and I don't regret it for a minute.

Albert,<p>You started off asking a fair question on this board, but I would appreciate you keep your racial comments to yourself...just blurting out "I refuse to drive any rice rockets" without any substantial evidence and justification as to why is very ignorant IMHO. It can't be because they are foreign cars because HELLO the A4 is foreign...so next time you have something to say leave your rude and utterly worthless 2cents out of it...

Piling on big debt to buy a car that you can't<br>really afford is crazy. I know there are a lot<br>of car aficionados on this site, and many will<br>say go for it, but think. Do you really want to SQUEEZE hard on all other spending, including savings (nice to have a little something set aside for emergencies) for a LONG time in order to buy a THING, even though the THING is an Audi? If you go for it, will you own the car or will the car own you? <p>

The Saturn is a ludicrous comparison. Saturns are harsh little beasts that have one thing going for them, their Lexus-like dealer network. Well, I spend time in my car every day and, if I'm lucky, I spend a couple of hours a year at my dealer. So, I'll choose the car I like over the dealer I like. <p>You would be much better served by driving all the cars in the class of the Saturn. Say, a Civic EX, VW Golf or Jetta, Mazda Protege, etc. Then drive the Saturn. If you're like us, it'll feel like a brute next to the EX. We just went through this experience buying my daughter's first car and nothing in the price range really compares with the Civic. The Integra is basically the same platform but with some more goodies and more sporting intentions.<p>Then, if you want to torture yourself, drive a Passat, A4 and BMW 323. If you don't find yourself really lusting after these last 3 cars (I mean you can't stop thinking about them at all!) then save yourself some grief and buy the Honda, or the Saturn if that's what you prefer.<p>Andy

If you want to have a performance car, then go and buy a Porsche, Lotus, Viper, Corvette or something like that. Don't buy a $13K Civic, put a 13" exhaust tip on it and pretend it's going fast. That's pathetic. You explain to me the logic of buying a $13K car and then spending $10K in mods on it. It makes no sense, what's more, have you ever ridden in one, and watch them take 30 minutes to go over a speed bump? What a joke. Drive by San Pedro harbor and see all the cheap ass sheetmetal that will be your future Accord. Now if you are buying a honda because it's reliable and will get you from point A to point B, then that's fine. But when you start revving the TTPorsche next to you in your civic with the home cut springs and cannon exhaust tip, then I have issues. People who do that obviously don't understand the concept of performance mod. I guess being loud was their primary concern. Also, the seats suck really bad, your ass falls asleep when you sit in it for longer than 2 hours, and you would have to shoot me before I take one on a road trip. I have owned a toyota corolla, a honda accord etc... So this isn't a 3rd party view point comment, so lay off my back. This is from a first person prespective. I refuse to drive a rice rocket. That's my personal choice, I'm libertarian, drive whatever the hell you want to. I didn't say that nobody else in the world should, my comments applied to myself. Are you a democrat? Is that why you can't handle other people having opinions that don't match yours? Do you have an inferiority complex? No? See defensive already, proof that you have a complex. Don't start with me.<ul><li><a href="http://www.billdeebs.pair.com/edit2.htm">Justification</a></li></ul>

He can say rice rocket, just as easily and politically correctly as I can say, "White-trash Corvette driver."<p>Utterly worthless 2 cents from Albert? He could shed 40 IQ points and still qualify for Mensa. Two cents from Albert is usually worth a few bucks. No joke.<p>And everyone says, "Rice Rocket." Live with it. Deal with it. Get therapy or something. "Rice Rocket" is HARDLY a racial term.<p>Relax. Or go buy an SUV and drive it off of a cliff. That'll remove you from the gene pool and the SUV from the car pool. 2 birds with one stone. How efficient!<p>:)

(nt)

But you kind of have to focus on the purpose. If I am going to buy a ****ty little car, then I would much rather have good service. I was at the BMW dealer for over an hour. Nobody gave me the time of day and that alone made me not want a BMW. I use to own a BMW, and the service has always SUCKED. <p>Like I told Karen Yang, Audi, BMW, they are cars. Saturn, it's something you use to do a job, like a fork or a knife. Not in the same catagory. <p>What I want vs. what I can afford, that's the real question here. I refuse to drive a civic (I go to Cal Poly) and be mistaken for a gangster while they do their drive by shootings, or have the problem of not being able to find my car in the parking lot because I am parked next to the 300+ civics... Shoot, I don't even remember what a stock civic looks like....<p>

I know cars are a matter of intense persona, but you'd take a Saturn over an Integra? Even used, the Integra's in another class.<p>If you're looking for inexpensive, reliable transportation with a dash of kickass, you can't beat a used GS-R. I drove the sedan for four years after becoming convinced that it was the most affordable out-of-the-box tireburner available in 1994. It was totally bullet-proof. Now, you're debating whether or not to drop some dough you don't have on an A4 you really can't afford. My advice, as posted earlier, is to buy something you can afford and save for the Audi (the TT, if you've got a lick of sense). You can find a used Integra GS-R for ~$12K with 55-60K miles that should run like a champ for at least another three years (assuming it's been cared for.)<p>I live in North Carolina, and the Integra doesn't seem to carry the stigma it does in other parts of the country (I assume you're in SoCal).<p>In any event, good luck!

Debt is debt, and I agree with you, and that is why I am saying, I either get something highly reliable and DIRT DIRT cheap like a used 96 Saturn for $6K, or else I get what I want which is an A4. What I would love would be a BMW 540 but we won't even go there.<p>See how horrible the people here are? They are encouraging me to get into debt, and I am listening! :-) Nina, bringing a little common sense to the world...

Why not consider getting a used A4? There are some coming off lease and I know Nozomi who is on this board (Hi Nozomi!) bought her previously-owned '96 pearl A4 2.8qm with an extended warranty.<br>There should be some '97 1.8Ts coming off lease soon too. Remember, most of us who got new cars are getting screwed on the depreciation the minute we drive it off the showroom floor.<br>My car is 2 1/2 years old and is awesome IMO. I am definitely keeping it and see no reason to buy a new one at this time. Some people have to have a new car every year or two. If I could afford that I would, but in my opinion you may want to consider getting one of those off-lease cars and saving yourself the unecessary higher payment of a brand spanking new one. BTW, your insurance may go up from the accident. If that's the case, you also need to consider what your insurance would be on a brand new car vs. a used one vs. your current car.<br>-Cathleen<br>

I own both an 1998.5 Audi A4 2.8 and a 1996 Saturn SL1, so I feel I can provide some comments:<p>The Saturn, when I bought it new, cost slightly less than what I just recently purchased my A4 for. Today I just brought the Saturn in for its 30,000 mile checkup. Total came to $348. Ouch! Gotta love the Audi Advantage. Anyway I haven't really driven the poor little Saturn much since I got the A4 (would anyone?) so I drove it today after its service. The Saturn is a slow, noisy little beast with uncomfortable seats and a horrible driving position. The brakes are poor, too. It has, however, been quite reliable and before I bought the Audi, I never realized just how poorly the Saturn drove. We are keeping it as our spare car. Being in New England, I like the fact that it has plastic sides and won't rust easily (it also still looks brand new).<p>So, is the A4 worth twice the price of a Saturn? In my opinion, yes, but then my A4 is 3 months old and my Saturn is 3 years old. If you are really serious about getting a Saturn, though, I recommend you do not test drive the A4 -- it just ain't fair :-).<p>-- Paul<br>

As NPR's "Car Talk Guys" are forever pointing out, it's never financially advantageous to buy new cars. Let me repeat: there are NEVER purely economic grounds for buying new cars, regardless of how pathetic a beater you're trying to keep road-worthy. However, there are plenty of other semi-rational reasons and tons and tons of highly emotional ones for new-car fever.<p>Life is too short not to try and go for it! (How's that for emotional?)<p>-- David F.<br>1.8TqMS<br>E30 325is

Yes I'm glad I bought the A4 after enjoying a US-Built "rice rocket" Sentra SE-R for 5 years. <br>I was almost ready to get a 99 Passart 1.8T GLS, but I found this car and couldn't resist.<br>When I bought it, the car had 19,300 miles so of course I couldn't experience the differences before and after the break in. <br>But I live in NYC and buying a good used car made sense to me.<p>The auto insurance rates here are ridiculously high but I cannot give up having a car! Instead of taking the subway and work in the city, I drive to Long Island.<p>Used A4s are still more expensive than Saturns but I personally don't like Saturns so never considered buying one. If I were looking for a car around $15,000 range, I might consider a used VW GTI V6/Jatta GLX with low mileage.<br>But if I'm concerned about possible repair bills, I might go for a brand new Civic and try to save money to get something I like better later on.<p>Albert, it's your car and your money. <p>Nozomi<br>P.S.<br>I'm originally from Japan, so perhaps I'm allowed to use the term "rice rocket" this time. I don't think I will use it from now on though.

They seem to be offered in about the $9-14K range with the higher price being for excellent, low-mileage examples. Though there aren't too many around, they can be found (check out www.karquattro.com for example).

NT

Believe you me, there *is* a world of difference! I loved my first Saturn (a '94 SL2), made the mistake of trading it in for a '97 SL2, which I was never happy with. Then just over 2 months ago, I traded that in for my '98.5 A4 1.8T -- no buyer's remorse here!!! The Saturn (by unfair comparison) was plain, slow, noisy, uncomfortable, and inferior. The only thing it had going for it was reliability; neither car ever let me down (but neither has the Audi, nor do I expect any problems in that arena!) This was the best purchase (lease) I've ever made, and I'll never regret it.

I think a used 1996 Saturn is a decent car, if not very refined. That's why I kept mine after getting the A4. We needed a second car, but I didn't think I would find a good used car that was better than my Saturn.<p>-- Paul<br>

<br>I used to play the violin - not very well but I<br>tried. I did not however name my violin.<p>By the way, from my research, Saturns are<br>relatively inexpensive to buy, are quite <br>reliable, cheap to maintain, cheaper than<br>most cars to insure (insurers love those plastic<br>body panels) and get very high customer<br>satisfaction ratings. If your range is 15K,<br>you could certainly do worse. <p>A couple of other folks who responded to you<br>also pointed out that buying the car is one<br>expense. Running it, maintaining it, insuring it<br>also add up to big $.<p> I don't know your age or where you live, but once you narrow your selections down a bit, you should call your insurance agent and get quotes for each. You'll be amazed at the range.<p> What does gas cost where you live? With the 1.8T you'll get in the mid 20s on super unleaded, which is REQUIRED. I believe the Saturns run on regular unleaded and get mileage somewhere in the low 30s.<p> Also be aware that if you go with Audi or VW, the parts are expensive and competent mechanics are expensive and hard to come by. <br>According to my mechanic, you can expect<br>fewer problems with an Audi, but when something does break, you're gonna pay.<p>Good luck with your decision. <p><br>

Check out a Passat. 3-10K less expensive. Same engine, same transmission. Use the extra dough for performance mods.

Check out a VW Passat. Same engine, same transmission, 3-10k less expensive. Use the rest for performance mods. <p>

Whoa. We see very few Civics in the Denver area. In fact, I would say that Accords outnumber Civics by about 5 to 1. Anyway, to me, the Civic drives much better than the Saturn. So does the Integra. But then again, I also prefer the Golf and Jetta over the Saturn. Maybe you should wait for the new Jettas if Civics are that ubiquitous where you are.<p>Andy