I am on the market for either a:<br>A4 1.8TQMS, A4 2.8QMS, or a 323i with Sport pkg<p>My thoughts are as follows:<p>A4 1.8T - great value (relative), security in poorer weather conditions of 4WD, nice interior, solid build. Negative is turbo engine and longevity/complexity, engine smoothness and sound (not as good as 323i or 2.8)<p>A4 2.8 - poorer value than 1.8T, security... interior (except for wood - I would prefer the aluminium of the 1.8T, and I don't like power seats). Smoother engine (more weight though), nicer sound, and likely better long term reliability.<p>323i - poor value - on account of having to get leather seats, as opposed to being able to enjoy cloth. Nice engine, and good drivers car overall with sport package. Tremendous residuals, long term reliability good, and looks like it will last a long time. Negatives are price, poorer traction than A4 (regardless of traction control), not as secure as A4 in feel, A4 felt like it was carved from stone.<p>These are my thoughts. I know this is a hotly discussed topic on these newsgroups, and I think the reason is that the above are 3 cars which many people are considering. Any thoughts anyone?<p>Regards<p>Bharat Raghunathan

I was in the same position as you and chose the A4 2.8 QMS. The reasoning is simple, the car is a better value, especially when you consider free service for 50k miles. The only time the BMW can claim to be better is when it is driven at the edge of its performance envelop, where the new design is superior to the 3 year old A4. But seriously, how often would you drive at the max? I would recommend the Car and Driver article that compared the A4 2.8QMS with the new 328i (I believe that this is from the November issue. It is the cover article). I believe that this article sums it up best.<p>Another thought is where you live and what you like to do. I'm in MD, so not too much snow, but I am a skier and venture into New England on a regular basis. As far as residuals, this will depend on how long you plan to keep the car. For me, its 5 to 7 years, so the residuals have little impact.<p>Hope my rambling helps, but I understand the though process that you are going through as you make your decision. Remember, no matter what, these are two excellent driver's cars and you can't go wrong with either.<p>Eric L<br>99 A4 QMS

I am unsure/wavering on which to buy.<p>Anyway, I sat and thought about the A4 1.8TQMS. I like the car/price, but not the engine - I'm nervous about the turbo, and the sound. Hence, I starting thinking 2.8, but on that you have to have power seats, and wood trim, 2 things I do not want. I have not heard/driven one yet, so I cannot judge the engine. Longevity would be better. Price is high.<p>The A4 2.8QMS is in 323i price territory, but I believe the resale is poorer than the 323i. I called a couple of dealers in New Jersey (I am in Long Island), and they seemed to indicate<br>they would deal for $2000 over invoice (Long Island has been $2500 over invoice so far).<p>I thought about it all, and still don't know. I have not driven them yet because I cannot get my hands on a 323i with manual transmission in Long Island - so I'm likely off to New Jersey on Friday. Similarly, it's difficult to get a back to back drive in A4 Quattros with both engines and manual transmission. I have much research to do yet before I decide<p>Regards<p>Bharat Raghunathan<p>

You may want to give the Passat a try. I didn't think I'd care for one much until I test drove one. Sure you don't have the prestige, refinements, and to the limit handling as you do with the others, but for a fun - ampled space - classy looking - quality built car - It's a great value.

I paid about $1,000 over invoice at an Audi dealership in West Springfield, Mass.<p>It's only a 3-hour drive from Long Island, and you can get in a little skiing while you're here.<p>And, oh yes, get the 2.8. The wood can be replaced (but why?), and I'm sure there are many 1.8 owners who would gladly swap you for that power seat.<p>StevenN '96 2.8qm

I might be alone on this but if I were to do it over again, I'd get a 323 over my 1.8T. In Canada, a base 323 would cost only slightly more than a base 1.8T Quattro. And there is no doubt that the 323 is a sweeter driver than the 1.8T. Smoother engine, better ride and more aggressive looks. It's only when you option them up that you get a wider price difference (BMW pricing is more aggressive than Audi pricing here in Canada).<p>My impressions is that the 323 is actually a better value than the 2.8. The BMW engine makes a great sound. The steering is leaps better than a 2.8 in terms of feel and the suspension is more forgiving when you're charging around a bumpy corner (not that I do that often)

The 1.8T should last as long as any other engines if it is properly cared for. Remember the 1.8T is seriously over-engineered (witness the 180hp version and the 225hp version found in the TT coupe), so there is no concern for reliability.<p>I test drove both the BMW 323i (auto) and 328i (manual) and can say that I love the 1.8T engine in terms of response and fuel economy. The 328i is definitely faster on paper but the 1.8T FEELS faster because of the lower torque peak. Although the BMW's straight six sounds sweeter it isn't any quieter compared to the 1.8T.<p>Handling wise BMW takes the nod. There is less brake dive and less body lean, and the chassis seems tighter overall. The A4 has a tight chassis but the suspension is noticeably softer even with the sport package. Body lean is comparable to the BMW but brake dive is pretty prominent. The A4 is a great highway cruiser while the BMW shines on twisty roads.<p>With quattro I think I will still take the A4 over the new 3-series.<p>Wong from North<br>

Maybe this will help you decide. My local audi dealership, Scottsdale Porsche Audi, has prepared an A4 1.8TQM (the 2.8 has good power, but the number is set in stone and weighs more) by chipping it to around 230 hp, installed 17x8.5 kinesis wheels on yokohama A032 advans and a freer flowing exhaust. They ran the car at Phoenix International Raceway last month for the first time. Result. The M3's were no problem lapping, the Viper GTR's proved tough, but after a few laps of anoying them in the twisty sections the A4 got by, but was passed again in the straight, eventually the Audi got far enough ahead of the Vipers in the infield that there was no hope for them to pass the A4 any longer. The only cars this A4 could not pass were a 550 hp 944 turbo, a 911 carrera rsr 3.8, and a 3.6 twin turbo. The reason for this is that the driver of the A4 had the car pretty much floord through much of the infield with no loss of grip ever, and he said it did not require much concentration, which could not be said for the drivers of the Vipers and BMW's. The next day it rained, so I don't need to tell what happened, let's just say it was unbelievable and eye opening for everyone there who struggled to stay on the line. I have been racing a 911 for years and can tell you after seeing this BMW's no longer impress me. The driver of the A4, said it best, "i can take this car, drive it in the winter the way it is all the way to Alaska, and if there is a dry track there, i can kick ass and take numbers." Maybe your interest isn't frustating BMW owners to the point of tears, but to just drive the car. But when you consider how little money was spent on this A4 to achieve these results, these facts cannot be ignored. I hope this helps in your decision