Service: I tell this story just to relay the facts so others may benefit from my experience. Yesterday, coming home from work, my "check engine" light came on. I was very concerned as my car only has 3,700 miles on it and Wed I leave for a week long snowboarding trip. I got home at 5:30, called the Audi dealer and explained the situation. The service guy I talked to said no problem, bring it in early on Tuesday and they would fit me in. This made me extremely happy, especially with the service department who was turning people away on Tues. morning because they were booked up. I brought the car in, they looked at it and it turned out to be a missing gas cap. PLEASE, AUDI, CONNECT THOSE DAMN THINGS TO THE CAR FOR US FORGETFUL FOLKS. The dealer said the lost gas cap was my fault, and that the diagnostic to determine the problem was not under warranty and I would have to pay for the labor, as well as a new gas cap. Oh well, live and learn. 1/2 hour of labor was charged me (the service mgr said he was giving me a break as it actually took 45 minutes). It indeed took 45 minutes as I watched my car from the waiting room. What I don't understand is that for about 35 of those minutes, the car just sat there; it was only worked on for less than 10 minutes. Oh well, live and learn. BTW, labor was $90/hour (WOW, I'm in the wrong business) and the gas cap was $13. . I then pay and pick up my car and look for the new gas cap; When I look I see a familiar trademark stamped on the gas cap: VW, not Audi. I went back in asked about it and the service guy said they were out of Audi caps and the VW one should work fine. Good enough BUT it bugs me having a VW cap (I also think they should've told me, but I am kind of anal). I know some of you think I'm nuts, but I'll probably order another Audi cap later on. Lesson for today: LEAVING YOUR GAS CAP BEHIND WILL COST YOU $60 AND AN HOUR AT THE DEALER: DON'T LEAVE IT BEHIND.<p>Audi handling claims: While at the dealer, I read several brochures I had not seen before. One, an explanation of Quattro. In it, Audi states the following: "Only quattro has 3 differentials, including the torque-sensing TORSEN center diff. that automatically transfers power between the front and rear axles. Not only does this make the car more neutral in its handling -- neither tail-happy nor nose-heavy -- it allows for far better cornering than two-wheel drive systems." I'm confused. I thought many people were posting that there was virtually no difference between the quattro handling and the FWD handling. Any comments?<p>Also, I started talking to the service guy about all that I've learned on A4.org and he almost went ballistic. Starting going on and on and remote range fixes and reprogramming the remotes and how they weren't supposed to be doing any of that work here in the US, blah, blah, blah. He started complaining about the fact that the internet was allowing people to obtain/share information that was never available to the public before (he didn't like the fact that the TSB's were out there in the world). Anyway, he really turned me off. I can understand some of his points about "recoding the remotes" but I didn't think he should complain to a customer about other customers finding out about the range fix TSB, and then asking there dealers to perform this fix.<p>I left the dealer happy that I didn't have a bigger problem, happy that they fit me in, but with that overall feeling of mistrust that I've alway had towards service depts.

this is the kind of constructive post that is much more helpful than post we see that are completely irate and combative. Just wanted to chime in and say that this kind of post is welcome, as far as I am concerned...<br>Cheers,<br>Andrew

This is an honest and helpful post.<p>Gene

The Audi gas cap has these notches and it is designed so that you can hang it on the top of the gas filler door while you pump. It would be very hard (though not impossible, I suppose ;-) to forget to replace the gas cap when you have to remove it to close the filler door.<p>I had reservations about putting the gas cap on the door and affecting the paint when I first got the car, but I quickly got over it. It is not causing damage and I have never forgotten to replace the cap after filling.<p>Hopefully your VW cap will have the same feature and this will help you.<br>

I always get a Jetta as a loaner from my dealer, and it has the two-notch gas cap as well. I think its the same cap, probably just stamped differently. I think the cap is designed well, and I've never even come close to losing mine. So, I don't think Audi should be blamed for not tethering the thing to the car.<br>I don't think it matters at all that its a VW and not an Audi stamped cap. No one will ever notice. Of course, I was a bit turned off by a Saab I was driving when I noticed that all the little plastic parts were stamped "GM," so I understand where you're coming from.<p>Miles

Re: the gas cap... If I'm not mistaken, the gas cap has a couple of molded "fingers" that will clip it onto the fuel filler door. That way you can't forget it, because the door won't close with the cap clipped to it. Am I wrong here?<p>That said, it seems to me the service guys did some serious gouging. I've been reading posts on this board for only a month or two, and I'm aware that a missing gas cap will trigger the check engine light. The logical thing for an honest service technician to do when presented with a check engine light is to take 30 seconds and check the gas cap first, it would seem. And yet these guys let the car sit for 35 min. before they got around to looking at *anything*, much less the gas cap? And then charged $45?! Smells fishy to me. Gary, if I were you, I'd take my business elsewhere.<p>(Also, Gary, you're not anal. I'd order the Audi cap too! :-)<p>*************<p>As for AWD, in theory the Audi brochure is right. Think of it this way: "nose-heavy" = understeer = front tires lose traction first, "tail-happy" = oversteer = rear tires lose traction first. <p>In a FWD car, the front tires are required to steer AND accelerate the car. Since both tasks demand traction, the fronts will typically reach their limit before the rears do, since the rears are basically just tagging along. Ergo, most FWD cars will understeer. (There are several other reasons, but I'm trying to simplify the discussion.)<p>In a RWD car, cornering and acceleration are decoupled. Depending, therefore, on how hard you're cornering and how much throttle you're feeding, the car will either over- or understeer. This is what people mean when they talk about "steering the car with the throttle".<p>In Audi's quattro setup, however, things get more complicated. The torsen diff will send torque to whatever axle has the *most* traction, up to a 70/30 split if I remember correctly. This means that if, say, the front is slipping, the torsen will take torque away from the front axle and give it to the rear axle. Since the front tires are now putting less *power* to the ground, they can use more of their available traction for *cornering*, which will reduce or eliminate slip. The torsen is doing this continuously, which means that it's constantly adjusting the axle torques to maximize grip at *both* axles, (which is a good thing). Basically, this is what Audi means when they talk about "neutral handling".<p>The flip side of this is that you're lugging around 230 extra lbs with the quattro hardware. Vehicle weight is directly related to the maximum velocities you can carry around corners without slip, and quattro adds something like 7% GVW. <p>This, I suspect, is why that magazine (Automobile?) that tested quattro vs. FWD A6s ended up with its conclusion that quattro was no better in the dry. Also remember that the magazine tested with pro drivers, who were able to extract the maximum performance out of the FWD car. AWD is much *easier* to drive when at or near the limit, so you and I would almost certainly run faster laps in a quattro-equipped car.<p>Side note: this stuff applies in the snow, too. I've seen a lot of posts here talking about how quattro accelerates better in bad weather but has no effect on stopping or cornering. While I agree that quattro will not shorten stopping distances, I do believe that a torsen-equipped AWD system will provide significant cornering benefits in the snow. The caveat is that I have never actually *driven* said system in the snow myself, but the logic tells me it has to be better than 2WD.<p>(BTW, read Bondurant or any other vehicle dynamics books for a much better explanation of vehicle handling. The concept of traction circles illustrates this stuff very effectively. Also, I went from memory, so all you handling gods, please correct any mistakes gently. :-)

I wouldn't necessarily call myself a "handling god", but I am an SCCA regional autocross champion and I do have a physics degree, so I'm not completely clueless about this stuff either. As for quattro vs. non-quattro "handling" issues, I simply look at it this way: For most people, car "handling" gets ugly when wheels lose grip, and with a quattro, the application of throttle is less likely to result in any wheels losing grip due to acceleration.<p>Get both cars up to speed, COAST them through identically-sized and identically-shaped corners in identical conditions, and they'll both do pretty much the same thing. But once you get any throttle application involved, the quattro is much less likely to get any wheels spinning, so there'll be no corresponding loss in traction due to spinning tires, and this is generally a more "stable" condition for most people. On dry pavement with a 150 HP car, you're not likely to notice the difference. With a 190 HP (or more) car on snow/ice, it should be rather noticeable. I gurarantee that I can accelerate better out of a snowy corner in my quattro than I can out of a snowy corner with a FWD A4. If this means it "handles" better in the snow, then so be it...

I really love the Audi/VW gas cap that hooks on the door. Funny thing is, my last car didn't have this feature and in 7 years I never lost the gas cap. It took me only 3 months in the Audi to lose one; go figure. Anyway, I never noticed my fuel door being left open, so I can only assume after I left the cap off that someone closed the door, or the wind closed it. Hopefully this $60 fix is engrained in my long term memory and won't forget again.

I had the same thing happen.... lost my gas cap, purchased an aftermarket cap at a local auto parts shop and the next day the check engine light came on. When I called the service department at my dealer, the RECEPTIONIST told me to check the gas cap (obviously A4 owners lose alot of gas caps...). When I told her that I had indeed lost the OEM cap but replaced it, she suggested that I check to ensure that it sealed correctly. Not wanting to take any chances, I called Clair Auto Parts and ordered an OEM replacement cap for $6 plus shipping. Cap came 2 days later, check engine light went off the next day.<p>Sounds like the receptionist that I dealt with would have been fired at your dealer for costing them $60 worth of business!<p>Chris

Audi should copy the BMW E46 gascap design: There is a plastic post fitted to the underside of the cap which fits in a mating hold on the fuel filler door. The cap itself is secured to the vehicle by means of a very short cable. It is very difficult to fill the car unless you use the post/hole feature, and you can't close the fuel filler door unless you reinstall the cap.<p>Simple. Effective.

Or more succinctly, what does this say about BMW's perception of their consumers?<p>They need all the help they can get! ;-)<p>I bet I'm gonna pay for that one!<p><flame-retardant suit on><br>

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My first thought was that they were being jerks for charging the labor to a brand new customer, but I guess if they had to squeeze you in, I can sort of understand...BUT, 1) I've had several check-engine lights, and they almost always have suggested checking the gas cap before I bring the car in, and 2) if they want to charge you $60 for this, they should damn well give you an Audi gas cap. I can't help but wonder if they would have treated a 60-year old A8 owner differently; I don't think HE would be too happy about getting a VW gas cap, and not being told, right after the sales department convinced him that this car is superior to a 7-series or S-class. Nor would he be too happy about having the service guy treat him like an idiot for losing the cap.<p>BTW, I hang the cap on the inside of the gas door, which reduces the likelihood of paint damage and makes it even harder to lose.<p>Rich D.

Seems to me it was an A4 owner who had the problem remembering to replace the gas cap!<p>Can't tell if your comment was in jest or not. Fact is, nearly everyone has at one time or another forgotten to replace a gas cap. Unfortunately, with a Bimmer or an Audi, this causes the check engine light to come on, often causing needless inconvenience and expense.<p>C'mon, Scrooge. Give BMW a deserved kudo for good design. Nothing wrong with adopting what other manufacturers do right. Just raises the bar another notch and everyone benefits.

Seems to me it was an A4 owner who had the problem remembering to replace the gas cap!<p>Can't tell if your comment was in jest or not. Fact is, nearly everyone has at one time or another forgotten to replace a gas cap. Unfortunately, with a Bimmer or an Audi, this causes the check engine light to come on, often causing needless inconvenience and expense.<p>C'mon, Scrooge. Give BMW a deserved kudo for good design. Nothing wrong with adopting what other manufacturers do right. Just raises the bar another notch and everyone benefits.

nt<br>

Yea, I'm 31 (but look 25) and wear blue jeans and sweatshirts most of the time (suits at work). The service guy was definately giving me the "hey there kid" attitude when I came in. Thx 4 the gas cap tip. I'll try on the inside.<p>

It's sad too. I make fun of people that leave their gas doors open, or caps on trunks...<p>It was pouring quite hard, I was on my way to meet up with other track drivers to head to Texas World Speedway, and I forgot to put the cap back on, and left it hanging off the gas door.<p>I got another one for $9 and change. It has both the Audi and VW logos on it, but it doesn't have the warning on it that the original had. Considering that it only takes about 10 minutes to reset the ECU, I would have been pretty upset if I were you. Use another dealer for service if it's possible.<p>98.5 Wett RamAir'ed Santorin Blue 2.8QMS

For more info on Torsen handling dynamics, search the quattro list archives for keywords "spider, bite, torsen".<p>There is a theory that the torsen diff (when used as a center diff) can mis-apply power in low friction situations causing the car to spin uncontrollably. This was well covered on the quattro list 6 to 8 months ago.<p>- Josh<br>- '98 A4q 2.8<br>- '72 911T

Apparently the car's computer diagnoses the engine and electronics every several miles and will give the most up to date readings.<p>This would explain why it took 1 day for my check engine light to go on after losing my gas cap and another day for it to go off after putting the OEM back on.<p>Re the price of the gas cap, Clair is a discounter so I am sure that the dealer would have charged $13 buck for the Audi cap also - always best to avoid dealer parts if possible!<br>Chris

Besides, I wasn't picking on BMW. I was picking on BMW buyers, but all in good fun. Hope nobody got upset over this.<p>;-)<p>Drew S.<br>

and the dude went off! He started spouting a bunch of crap about how the internet was ruining his industry. I hadn't even mentioned the internet or the forum.