I just thought everyone would like to hear my experience of test driving a BMW 323i (the one whose engine sounds like a food processor). I'm kind of convinced to go for an A4 now. Here goes:<p>I called my local about a car and he said that he could not do a test drive in a manual, only an automatic. Other dealers had been the same, so I decided to do the drive in an automatic. I explained I would only buy a manual.<p>I got all of 5 minutes in the car, and then went to talk a deal. He gave me a price, I asked to work the invoice price - to see his profit - indicating that this is the way it is recommended to work.<p>I was told that may be so, but "I don't own the dealership"! He as $810 below MSRP, and said I would be lucky to get a better deal in the Long Island area. I said I have had better deals - where he said. I mentioned I was happy to go out of state.<p>I was then told that if I bought a car out of state, and brought it to him for servicing, I would get screwed - to the bottom of the list. They would not help me if something went wrong with the car - as I did not buy from them. I was also told that if I ordered a car without a sunroof, I would be heavily penalised by him if I ever wanted to trade the car with him.<p>The whole experience was exceptionally unpleasant - I thought as I am buying a car, and paying a large sum of money, I would at least be treated well.<p>For your information, the dealer is Rallye Motors on Northern Boulevard in Long Island. Has anyone had similar horror stories? <p><br>

I wouldn't call it a horror story -- it's basically the dealer's prerogative to be an ass... A dealer (a franchise or whatever the agreement is) is a retail establishment, and can do whatever they want. If you don't like them, BMW USA, VW of America, Audi of America, etc. are just going to tell you to "go somewhere else." Point is -- buy where you service, and get as good a deal as you can...<p>-josh<br>98.5 2.8qms

yeah...............<p>tested A4 when it first arrived in '96......the dealer wasterrible!<br>test drive made Oldsmobile Achieva seem like a better ride!<p>went to a different dealer a few months ago to check out<br>a 1.8 and had a more positive result.<p>makes a difference!<p>have you tried Habberstad BMW?<p>

I guessed it... I was reading through your story and when you mentioned, you can probably get a better deal out in Long Island, I had an idea in my mind that it was the dealer on Northern Boulevard.. I swear!<p>I was looking for a 3 Series for my brother and boy, the service and treatment I got from them was for sh#$! The salesman was really rude and won't even budge on the price for a 328i, and told me to go to another dealer to get a better deal.. So I did..<p>Dmak 1.8TQMS Ram & Scorpioned<br>

Yep, You're right, it was on Northern Boulevard, they seemed to not care where I went. Where did you go?<p>I got reasonable service from Hassel BMW off Sunrise Hway (I think), and also seem to be okay with Country BMW out East in Montauk<br>

BMW of Oyster Bay seemed willing when I spoke to them as well

Yep, you're right - so far the Audi dealers I have been to have been good, and the BMW bad. Habberstad were useless - I went there, sat in a few cars, and nobody cared to help, so i left.<p>Sort of keen on the A4 1.8TQMS though, much better value, and much better looking. Quattro too!<br>

I've been thinking about a 323 or 328 for my wife. <p>Mike<br>1.8T Neuspeed

Anyone in the market for a car should first get a quote from every major car broker out there. Just visit the appropriate web site and fill out some info. Usually, you'll get a call back with a price. At worst, you'll receive the name of the participating dealer and a contact where you can call for the pre-arranged price. Since there's no obligation, you at least have a starting point - a maximum price that you know you won't exceed.<p>When I bought my A4, dealers were originally quoting about $2100 over invoice. Hard bargaining brought this down to about $1500 over. Quote requests to three brokers (Auto-by-tel, Carpoint, and Autovantage) each resulted in no-hassle quotes ranging from $9500-$1200 over invoice, with no haggling whatsoever. One affiliated dealer even suggested that there was room for further negotiation with this quoted price. I ended up with $850 over, and no haggling.<p>The URLs:<br>www.carpoint.com<br>www.autobytel.com<br>www.autovantage.com<p>Good luck,<br>David<p>P.S. The only caution is that your local affiliated dealer may not be that close by. I had a 40 minute drive to one. Getting quotes from all three brokers improves your luck with this.

Didn't know you were looking in that neck of the woods....<p>Country imports is excellent...<p>Storms (for Audi) was lousy...<p>btw, your comment of 'food processer' seems odd .....<br>

I commented on the noise, because I expected a better sound. Maybe the automatic was the problem - they always make an engine sound strange. Perhaps it was the dealer - which put me off the whole thing.<p>I've heard Country was good - speak to Chad - a friend said he was good. Will look at Storms too, but actually Donaldsons in Sayville were very cooperative, as was Biener Audi.<p>Try:<p>Bellavia Audi <br>6402 Kennedy Blvd <br>West New York, NJ 07093 <p>Seemed helpful enough over the phone on price<br>

Thanks,<p>I've tried the broker route, and so far only recieved one call from a dealer due to a carpoint request. Autovantage even gave the preferred price, but will the dealer deal at that price? I am in New York

,

Yes, I tried, and the Beemers' dealers do their song&dance anyway, because there are lines of buyers, most of them willing to pay MSRP... <p>In addition, I had the same experience with my A4 last December (1997), when they were pushing the MSRP... I made it lower by saying that I did not want the sunroof, so they discounted it... but they ripped me off on my trade-in: $1,500 for 85 BMW 325e, 100k, excellent cond. Also, the A4 had 170 miles on it (i.e., not really from the ship). Yet, I considered myself lucky being able to drive the car off the lot.<p>So, I haven't found brokers to be of much help, yet I use them as a referral service, and to start my negotiations (which usually do not come that good for me anyway). GOOD LUCK!

yeah, and with an attitude like that, you don't want to take your car there for service even if you DID buy a car from him. kinda place where if they served food they'd spit in it. you oughta have lots of choices for sales and service given where you live, try Jersey, CT, etc. etc. most 'border' dealerships are all set to do the taxes/registration for the states around them so it's painless for you...

Storms was stinky....Donaldsons was MUCH better.<p>Ray @ Donaldson seemed to be able rip on the A4<br>1.8 pretty good, whereas Joe at Storms was like<br>driving with my grandmother in the car , was slime<br>and lowballed me on my trade.<p>I would go with Donaldson.<p>'food proccessor' still an odd remark considering<br>you are looking into a 1.8 4cyl........

yep, I really meant that it was not as good as I expected. My previous experience was from my parents 316i (dosen't sound too bad for a 4 cyl - quite deep in sound), and also a friends M3 - sounds great.<p>The 323i sounded unusual in comparison, I had heard previous BMW's from outside and they sounded better. Maybe it was the automatic. I shall test drive another.<p>Perhaps it was the dealer's annoying voice

My experience is that automatic car never sound as nice as the manual versions. My Accord has an slushbox and it sounds positive noisy compared to the manual version.