I hope that those considering sinking a lot of money into their A4 stereo will read this and proceed cautiously, and those with useful tips will share them constructively. <p>Initial system: '98.0 stock (non-Bose) everything, plus Rockford Amp driving 10" Sub, Clarion 12 disc changer/RF, connected via line from rear speaker---not super loud, but good, full sound and warm, pretty deep bass even at lower volumes. Thought new speakers would offer even better bass for long road trips in the A4.<p>"Upgraded" system: Stock/Delta headunit remains, with 12 disc changer, but new JL sub running off Rockford amp, Xtant 4x50 amp running Front 5.25" MB Quart separates/crossover ($350, don't know model#) and rear 6.5" MB Quart Mid-Bass only speakers. (all MBQ's with A4 adapters)---- Loud, bright music with no Bass ability. Sub hits the really deep bass notes fine, but in the absense of those beats, music has no bass. Audiosource 2XS Crossover takes the bass out so the wimpy Quarts don't thud, but makes the absense of bass even more noticeable. The smaller, stock nokia speakers were able to produce much more full range sound without "thudding".<p>With over $2500 (lots of labor, redos, f'up's, and pure frustration I'll spare you) sunk into this, it sounds much worse than it did with the stock (non-bose) speakers plus an amp/sub in the trunk. I wish I'd never thought about upgrading it from there. <br>Especially with all the praise I've heard, the MB Quart Separates/crossover (midline) are a HUGE disappointment. Sure they fit nicely with the adapters and sound "accurate" with some types of music, but they can't take a beat to save their (expensive) lives. To be fair, nor can ANY of the other aftermarket 5.25's or 6.5's I tried at the shop with some good industrial and House beats. They all start to thud/distort with any sort of volume. I'm sure any speaker can handle generic dave matthews bass, but I was hoping my German speakers could handle some German beats! Any sort of big beat results in a pathetic thud. Sure you can take the bass out of it with the crossover, but that results in loud, treble-bright music with no bass from the fronts & rears, and the sub only hits the really deep bass notes. The stock + Sub system had much fuller range sound.<p>What's the deal here? Has anyone who listens to "big Beat" music (i.e, house, techno, industrial, etc.) done something different with the speakers, or am I totally missing something. Having been to SIX different shops in three different cities, I'm now doing what I should have done at the start, and asking for some stereo advice from people who know much better than I...you. Is there any hope for more bass from these pathetic, expensive, overhyped speakers? Heading back to shop #5 in the next few days. TIA for your advice.<p>Rich<br>'98 2.8Qsport, no bass.

I don't know, but it seem to me you have the makings for a good system...<p>I'd take a closer look at the x-over, and the amp for that matter. There must be something wrong or not hooked up properly. I've heard MB's jam!!!<p>I'm one of those who has run enough systems to know that mid-bass is not easy. It takes expirence, and a knowledge of how everything is supposed to be hooked up and running. Through my expirence, I found the recipe for good mid-bass is a clean high-powered amp pushing high-end interior speakers. Now, you have the speakers, the trick is to over power them and run the gains low with having the x-over set inside the speakers handling margin i.e.; if the speakers freq. range is 40-20,000Hz then don't give them a freq. lower than 45Hz. I'd look at the x-over settings and gains, there's something not adding up...<p>it's cool if you want to e-mail me and get in depth with your problem, I'll try to help you the best I can...<p>Jason C

First of all - the overhyped speakers, really do rock. Check your amp. The amp can make a BIG difference. I listend to about 12 at my shop before I went with a Sony Mobile ES. That had the best bass response of any including Alpine, Rockford, Precision Power, Kenwood, etc. IMHO. I ran the MBQuart 5.25 in the front, but I also installed MBQuart 6.5 in the rear doors and Kenwood 6x9s in the rear deck. I started from a non Bose system as well. I used a good Sony amp (NOT mobile ES) to drive the 6x9 and 12" Sony Mobile ES woofer in a sealed box. I get plenty of bass. Anymore would be overkill unless your a rap guy who likes tons of it. But for rock and blues, sounds great.<br>If I can be anyhelp, let me know.<br>99 A4 with a great sounding system<br>

The components that you own are of good quality, but your installation may be one of the problems. I have several suggestions that may help you.......... Find a shop that has installed systems in cars that are successful in IASCA (International AutoSound Challenge Association) competition. Explain the problems to the installers that are responsible for the winning vehicles success. Installation is the single most important aspect of owning a high end autosound system: Anyone can install a product, but only a music lover will care about how it sounds, and take the time to learn proper install techniques. As for your specific problems.... Your lack of 'tight' bass in the upper-bass region could be the result of several things. 1. Poor box design. The enclosure will determine the frequency response of the sub system. To get 'tight' bass your box should be designed for a peaky response. It seems to me by your description of the sound that it is currently producing a very flat and extended sound qualtiy. Since I don't know any details about the box, such as size, type (sealed, ported, bandpass), or positioning, I can't really say anything precise. 2. Crossover points. I don't know what they are set at, but try setting the high-pass filter to 100Hz. This will cut off frequencies below 100Hz from your fronts. Therefore they should definately not bottom out. If they do, your problem is elsewhere. Remember, your goal is to achieve a front soundstage. Therefore you want as much bass as possible coming from the front of the car. Get the front crossover point as low as possible while keeping you front speakers free of distortion. If you have separate high and low pass filters, things get more complicated. Try setting them both at 100Hz as a good starting point. Lower the front to its lower limit, and then tweak the sub low-pass filter. 3. Clipping. This is probably a totally foreign term to you, but I'll do my best to explain it for you. You are using a RF (radio frequency) CD changer. It's signal is running through your factory Audi radio's tuner section. From there, the signal is being carried through the radio's amplifier stage and out to the speakers. This is producing a high level output, or one that originates from a speaker wire. You didn't mention how far you must turn up the radio's volume level to get the amount of volume from your system that you want. I have a feeling that you are cranking it up wide open however. When you do this, the radio is attempting to supply power enough to satisfy your volume requirements. The factory radio is simply not powerful enough to do this, so it clips. If you looked at the line level output coming from that rear speaker when you do this with an oscilloscope (a device that lets you see the AC waveform), you would see a sharp spike and then a sharp dip. This is clipping. A really nasty sound is usually the result of this, followed by speaker failure, and ear damage due to very loud high distortion levels. If you will give me specifics about your system and its setting I WILL help you out. There is nothing I hate to see worse than a person who invest hard earned cash in a high quality audio system and then thinks to themself " The factory system sounded better than this!" It is a shame that so many shops have let you down. It makes the entire industry look ignorant. This includes the shop owners for hiring ignorant installers as well as the manufacturers of the products themselves, for dealing with dealers that simply want the sale and could care less about customer satisfaction. Remember, the more you know, the less they will lie to you. I apologize for the length of this post, and I hope it helps you, and others. If there is anything that I can do for you, PLEASE Email me, I will reply shortly.

I don't think the problem he's describing has anything to do with the amp unless the amp is broken, has an internal crossover which is adjusted improperly, or he's pushing the amp into clipping (which he implies he isn't). At 50W a channel, he should be able to get really good low end from the amp. (Especially compared to the 5W or whatever stock amps!) There may be small differences in the sonic character of different amps, but not nearly as drastic as he's complaining about.<p>Jim Meyer

<br>Rich:<br>Pls email me if you like.<br>1998 i believe has concert, not delta. It has a very "forward" sound. (read bright).<p>Having said that, i agree with you, after you pay like $500 for a pair of drivers, they should rock like home book shelf speakers. I have found they don't. (Bostons, MBs, et al)<p>Most speakers need enclosures to optize response. Also a bigger magnet is not always the best for response. Try to audition the sepakers in an infinite baffe enviroment.<p>1996 a4 2.8 qm<br>

I agree with several posts below, especially the need to bring the mid bass into the front soundstage. I solved many of your problems by keeping the system simple. I have MB Quart "Q" series (6.5" mids + 1" tweeters) in custom kick panels, & JL Stealthbox sub, powered by Phoenix Gold ZX450 amp (75w x2 in front, & 250w bridged into mono into rear sub). There are no (NO!) rear fill speakers. System includes MB Quart Musicomp crossovers, & a 1Farad capacitor. Install was done by an IASCA competitive shop, & we RTA'ed it for freq. response. End result superb sound particularly if you understand front staging without need for rear fill. I'd be happy to share info with anyone who's interested.

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Sorry boys, if i'm a bit late to the party - here's my $0.02 to the bill. <p>Initial System : 98.0 Bose stereo system. <p>System as of today : 98.0 Bose deck (same as delta?), Pioneer 12-disc RF changer, Coustic 4x50 amp running stock Bose interior speakers, Fosgate 200ix running 2 JL Audio 12 W6 subs, sealed enclosure, 1.05 cuft./side. 1 Farad power cap, 130A breaker.<p>Now, Rich, if you take a peek at my system specs, they're really not much different from yours. (i want your interior amp, but that's another story =) I too, also listen to "big beat" music - house, drum & bass, hip hop, etc, so bass response is a really big issue to me. It's enough to sacrifice half my trunk for, at least. Here's my suggestions, in addition to some posted before me - <p>1.) Set your crossovers for the interior speakers around 80-100hz, with a 12db slope - this will let them play a bit lower, but the slope wont' be so gradual that they'll end up getting down into the 50's, where the cone starts to distort. <p>2.)Add another sub, if you can. You never mentioned what kinda fosgate amp you're running, but it should be able to handle the lower resistance caused by adding another sub. My fosgate (which is almost 3 years old now) has been pounding my brains out since i got it. i've loaded it down to 0.75 ohm running the two JL W6 subs, and it still managed to keep from melting - now i run at 3 ohm stereo, which works the best for the amp and sub response. <p>3.) DO NOT USE HIGH-LOW CONVERTERS!!!! My stereo shop used these to grab a signal off the rear speakers, since i am also on the factory deck. IF YOU ARE USING HIGH-LOW CONVERTERS (or speaker-level inputs) the sound will be BAD BAD BAD. I can't stress this enough. So what's the solution? you ask. It's fairly simple - tell the installer to grab the line-outs coming from the deck - if rumor is true, and the stock 98.0 deck and the Bose 98.0 deck are THE SAME, then you WILL have the line-outs coming from your deck. Any competent installer should know how to take those line-outs, and convert the plugs into RCA's, which your amps like a whole lot more. I switched from high-lows to the line-outs myself in about 45 minutes, and the sound improved at least 50%. <p>4.) Remove the speakers on the rear deck - as someone else said, the rear-fill isn't that important. i have speakers in the doors, so i still have some rear-fill (not the best) but anyways...i found that removing the deck speakers really opens up the bass response, hard to believe, but true. Try folding down a rear seat sometime, and then ask yourself if the bass is better - well of course it is! When i removed my speakers in the rear deck, the bass became so loud i needed to readjust my gains. I think this will help you out the most in terms of bass response. <p>5.)Lastly, tuning the system for one's particular taste is important - anyone can assemble a system, but careful tuning of the crossover and amp gains will drastically change the way the system sounds. I don't think many installers (depending on your shop) like house and big beat type music - when i started audio, and asked around for sample systems, you could definently see the influence of the shop on the kinda system. Eventually, i found a shop run by the installer, who was about 21 years old, and listened to garbage and other heavy bass music. I liked it a lot. =) So, in short, make sure the installer knows what kinda music you listen to.<p>OK, there's my $0.02....lotsa value for the money, huh? Send me some CD's if you can...decent techno is hard to come by these days =)<p>HTH, <br>Edmund Louie<br>98 A4Q 30V<ul><li><a href="http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/speedway/8138">edmund's a4 page - last updated when he bought his car!!!!! =)</a></li></ul>

If you are really interested, e-mail me & I'll either post some or, better yet, send photos to you. Mind you, they look as much like OE (with MB grilles) as possible, as unobtrusive & inconspicuous as possible also.