Radio and Nav+
01-10-2005, 06:17 AM
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Radio and Nav+
Radio took a dump yesterday - My friend has said it is the amp below the seat - has anyone had this happen?
Has anyone ordered the Nav+ from their dealer - if the radio is shot I might as well go and get the Nav+ system
Has anyone ordered the Nav+ from their dealer - if the radio is shot I might as well go and get the Nav+ system
01-10-2005, 07:07 AM
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Re: Radio and Nav+
The dealer typically cannot get it. Now that some of the new 05s are coming with the new MMI version of NAV+. They may be able to order it but I don't know of anyone that has connected this newer version to an older Audi. I'm not saying that it can't be done it's just I'm not sure how much the MMI portion of it ties into the vehicle. Even with the older European NAV+ keep in mind that this is not something that can be just plugged in. There are other "custom" wire harnesses that you would have to make. I would really doubt that a dealer would tackle this job even if they could get the parts and as far as I know they still cannot. Best bet to get NAV+ is through Ebay, A European Dealer, or there are some people out there that have Estores and sell it. I think there is a guy in the midwest area doing installations. I know of one person in Minnesota for sure that had the earlier NAV+ installed in his S4.
01-10-2005, 07:17 AM
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I'm planning to do the job. Dum question :
Did you notice any color difference in the Navi+ Unit ?
I think post 2001 units are more anthracite than black... Am I right ? (PN K ?)
How to be sure on Ebay to get the right version ?
I think post 2001 units are more anthracite than black... Am I right ? (PN K ?)
How to be sure on Ebay to get the right version ?
01-10-2005, 09:30 AM
#5
yes....preview to my tech article:
Folks,
I compiled some of this info/knowledge after reading the posts on this forum for 12 months. When I am done, I'll probably have 20+ pages of install information (to compliment Dan's site) specifically focused on the C5 A6 platform. I will need to .pdf-it and post it somewhere. My intent is to address 90% of the questions that keep arising in this forum from noob's etc.
Please let me know if you have any comments or feedback on this section of my tech article.
Here's my recent updated install pix: https://forums.audiworld.com/a6/msgs/463741.phtml
The "How to" site is now posted here: http://www.nav-plus.com/instructions/
Why are there so many Nav+ units for sale in Europe?
As an owner of a 1995-2004 A6/S6/RS6/allroad, we have an advantage when it comes to the Nav+ upgrade: they are in very high supply. As I understand it, the Nav+ option is available on most A4, A6 and A8s in Europe. For the A6 platform, the Nav+ option was commonly purchased with any new A6/S6/allroad etc. However, owners of A6s in Europe are finding themselves upgrading to aftermarket stereo/navigation equipment (it just has something to do with the demographic of an A6 owner in Europe). As a result, European stereo shops are selling them as "trade-ins" on the open market (via ebay.de aka Ebay Germany). Consequently, because the Nav+ is not a commonly purchased option for the A4 (the demographic of an A4 owner will dictate this), you will not find the same quantities on the open market. Also, the Nav+ option purchased for an A8, tend to stay installed in that car and Nav+ not get upgraded to an aftermarket solution (again, must be the demographic of an A8 owner); which makes perfect sense to me. Bottom line: If you own a C5 A6/S6/RS6/allroad, you should not have any problems finding a Nav+ unit for your car.
Some thoughts on the regular United States version of the navigation option:
If you have the United States version of the navigation option, then you are probably familiar with the navigation menu that comes up on the Drivers Instrument System (DIS). The DIS is the screen between the speedometer and tachometer. For the most part, the Nav+ has all of those functions plus a much user-friendly experience (e.g. the 5" TFT LCD screen). With the Nav+, your passenger can enter in the destination location, or find "special destinations" (i.e. restaurants, shopping areas, etc) without distracting the driver. Also, while setting the Nav+ to map mode (but not navigating to specific destination), the Nav+ will give you the name of the street/highway that you are currently traveling (which comes up in the DIS). Have you ever been driving down an unknown road/highway and you want to know what street you are on? In order to have this on your DIS, you will need the TMC/CAN gateway installed (see TMC/CAN gateway device). I have not owned an A6 with the regular navigation option, so I cant honestly speak to its limitations. However, after using the Nav+ (in conjunction with the TMC/CAN device), I can say that this is the best user experience of navigation tools that I could ever need. If you have the US navigation option and you want to upgrade to the European Nav+, then please keep note of these drawbacks:
1) Existing navigation equipment: You wont be able to use the existing jog dial (located near the parking brake) or the CD drive located in the trunk area. The jog dial can be removed, and you can install the cup holder found in most A6s. You can also probably sell your CD-drive in the used market (i.e. ebay) and recover some money.
2) GPS antenna: You can leverage your existing GPS antenna (whether it is trunk or roof mounted). In either case, you will need to locate the SMB connector in the left-hand side of your trunk; behind the CD-drive). If you want to use your existing antenna, then youd have to build or order a 15 foot coax cable with SMB connectors. Here is a company that can build one for your. FYI they will probably charge you $30-$40 for this cable. The other alternative is to purchase a new GPS antenna and mount it in the dash area (read ahead to see what I did). I purchased my antenna for $40 from www.gpsaccessories.com (See "Sources for GPS antennas") and it saved me the trouble of mounting it in the rear area and spending the time (2+ hours) to run the wire to the dash area.
3) Map disk set: If your A6 is a 2000 or 2001, then chances are, your map disk set is of the C-Navi generation. I believe in some 2001 or newer C5 A6s, was when the D-Navi based units were adopted. Youll have to check your current map set to see if it is C or D-Navi. If it is D-Navi, then you can use those map disks in your Nav+, but youll need to slightly modify them. See this link to Dans site: ( http://www.tvwiz.net/navigation/maps.html ). FYI - the last C-Navi disk update was released in the summer of 2001; so several A6 owners have been working from an old mapset.
4) Playing a CD/Tape: As you already know, the Nav+ headunit cannot play an audio CD or tape. Therefore, you will loose that capability. The OEM 6 disc CD Changer is still an option (see other input devices to the Nav+). After using my Nav+ for four+ months, Ive learned to live without that capability.
5) Recoding your system with VAG-Com: Im not sure if youll need to recode anything as a result of removing your existing navigation option and upgrading to a Nav+. From prior user experience, you do not need to recode your environment to prior to installing a Nav+ (According to a Chicago-based A6 owner - Rick Simpson. Thanks Rick!!).
If you want to use your existing GPS antenna:
Youll need to purchase a SMB to extend from your trunk area (where the Nav CD-ROM drive is located) to your center dashboard area. You will probably need a 15-20 foot cable (RG174) with SMB male and SMB female ends. SMB Connector Below is an example of a 900 angle female end to be inserted behind the back of your Nav+ head unit.
Sources for SMB cables: http://www.navtechgps.com/supply/misc.asp
http://www.elabelsys.com/digitek/smb_series.htm
http://www.mainlinegroup.co.uk/mless/main.php?act=Card&id_element=892
http://www.midwestelectronics.com/product_info.php/cPath/91/products_id/90
GPS antenna options (OEM and non-OEM):
If you are planning a Nav+ installation, chances are, your Audi does not have an OEM GPS antenna. Therefore you need to add one. You can purchase one from the dealer, and spend a lot of money for an OEM part, or you can purchase an aftermarket version that will work exactly the same. It all depends on whether or not you want your GPS antenna to be visible or invisible from the outside of your car.
Sources for GPS antennas:
www.gpsaccessories.com (I ordered the SMB version with a 3 meter cable for mounting it inside the dash)
www.midwestelectronics.com
OEM Avant roofmounted (Audi part# 8L0 035 501B. FYI the antenna rod is Audi part#: 8D9 035 849) FYI this particular antenna supports GPS, AM/FM, and a cellular phone.
OEM "Sharkfin" style (Audi part# N/A). I dont have any experience with these OEM antennas, but I do believe that these versions include AM/FM, cellular phone, GPS and XM functionality.
Where to source the Nav+ units:
1) Brokers/Importers:
There are a few places to source these units if you live in the United States. A majority of folks that Ive dealt with were able to find "brokers" who had imported a dozen or so of these units and sold them with installation kits and the appropriate wiring connectors. To me this seemed to be the best option because the broker assumes all of the risk for importing the Nav+ units and insuring that they operate correctly. Most brokers will also load the most current firmware (see Dan Golds site for details http://www.nav-plus.com/instructions/software.html ) or software version and code the Nav+ unit to be more specific to your A6. Items like Bose vs. non-Bose, tire diameter are all preconfigured so when you use a VAG-COM to setup your Nav+ and instrument cluster, 80% of the coding is already done. In my opinion, the broker/importer is your best option and worth the extra $100-$300 premium.
Jon Lofquist (JonLofquist@aol.com) is a trusted Audi Enthusiast who has contacts in Germany and imports these units and puts together packages. He lives in the Minneapolis area and has sold these units to several A6 owners.
2) Open/Used Market (i.e. Ebay.de or Ebay Germany):
Outside of using a broker/importer, your next best option is dealing with someone from Europe. As mentioned earlier, the A6 versions are in high supply, so you should see a few dozen of them on Ebay.de (aka: Ebay Germany). The price for these units can range from $500 to $1000 USD (including currency conversion, wire transfer fee and shipping costs. There are a handful of folks selling these Nav+ units. Ive dealt with a person in Germany that goes by the name Bas Nadia and he has been the most reliable. In fact, I purchased my TMC/CAN gateway from him and shipped it to me within a week of my bank wire transfer. See Dans site for more information on how to carry out a bank wire transfer http://www.tvwiz.net/navigation/ebay.html
Also, you can search under the vwnavi.com forum to research information on sellers from Europe. http://www.vwnavi.com/vwnavi/forums/index.php
3) Places like Avalon Motorsports, www.euro-audi-parts.com and www.nav-plus.com:
Avalon Motorsports and Euro-Audi-Parts sell brand new Nav+ units. Because these units are brand new, you can expect to spend $2500+ on the head unit alone. Avalon also has a network of installation shops around the country. I have not dealt with Avalon, so I cant comment on their pricing or installation services. Please contact Avalon Motorsports for more details:
Avalon Motorsports, LLC.
303-400-3001
www.avalonmotorsports.com
www.euro-audi-parts.com
Sky Tougas, President & Co-Founder
www.Nav-Plus.com
Tel: 401.741.9061
Fax: 401.782.4455
Email: info@nav-plus.com
Part numbers for the Nav+ headunit (D-Navi only):
Audi Part# Fitment (A6/S6/RS6/allroad)
4B0-035-192 (Revision F-through H) MY1999.5 to 2001. I purchased the H version as it matched the glossy black plastic interior of my 2001 A6. The H version seems to be popular and in high supply.
4B0-035-192 (Revision K and higher) MY2002-2004. This will match the matte grey/black plastic interior. The K and L versions seems to be popular and in high supply.
Please note: If you order one of these units, make sure it comes with the correct 4-digit security code.
Other Nav+ Head unit parts needed:
Audi Part# Function
3B0-919-754 26 pin connector
000-979-010 Wires/pins (this will come with two pins attached by one wire at a minimum, you only need three quantity) Please note: These parts can be sourced directly from your local Audi Parts department. They are considered a special order item and can take up to a week to arrive. If you end up ordering an Nav+ related parts from www.vagparts.com, it will be cheaper for you to include these pins/wires and connectors as part of your order.
Why consider adding a TMC/CAN gateway:
The TMC/CAN gateway is a device used in Europe to capture Traffic Message Channel (TMC) information via the radio station and sent to the navigation units to enable you to navigate around upcoming traffic delays or accidents. TMC is a service that you pay for in Europe. In Europe, it can be transmitted within standard public audio broadcasts - in the UK it is carried by ClassicFM, or obtained via cellphone calls. Unfortunately TMC was not adopted in North America. Therefore the TMC portion of the device is not used.
What is CAN?
CAN is the databus that all/most/some of the electronic systems use to communicate. Essentially correct - CAN (Controller Area Network) bus was developed by Bosch, the German electronics company. - Definition courtesy of Peter Bell ( peter@bellfamily.org.uk )
The CAN portion of the device is used to translate the navigation, radio and CD information from the Nav+ to the instrument cluster. FYI The Nav+ is developed by Blaupunkt for Audi as an OEM component. The TMC/CAN gateway translates those CAN signals from Blaupunkt to Audis protocol. In the D3 A8 and the C6 A6, CAN will be used more widely to integrate all components together into one network. The TMC/CAN gateway is optional and not required to use a Nav+. The TMC/CAN device can be purchased new from Vagparts.com for $400 or used (via ebay.de) for $100-$250. Prior to purchasing all of my Nav+ parts, I determined that having the navigation information on the DIS was mandatory for me. In my opinion, it is too much of a safety hazard to be constantly looking at a map screen while driving.
As an A6 owner, this was the purchase criteria that I used:
1) Navigation information on DIS:
In addition to the cool map display, you get directional arrows in your DIS for right turn, left turn, etc. The best part is that it gives you a total driving distance to your destination, estimated time of arrival (ETA) and the mileage before your next turn. The ETA is also being recalculated depending on the speed of travel. This allows you to keep your eyes on the road. I tend to look down at the map display when I need a point of reference in my travels. Also, I can toggle the DIS information (using the reset button on the right side stalk) between the navigation/map display and the outside temperature/trip computer display. Very cool!
2) Use of Steering wheel/Radio/CD controls:
Also, in an A6, the TMC/CAN gateway will allow you to retain your steering wheel radio/CD controls when you upgrade to the Nav+. The steering wheel (with radio/CD controls) is just one particular "node" that resides on the CAN-bus network. In 2002, A6s began to use the CAN-bus network to connect all kinds of electronic "nodes" into this system.
3) Street/Highway information:
While in map mode in the Nav+, the DIS provides you with a compass (N, S, E, W) and a label for the street or highway name. I really like knowing what street/highway I am driving down; this is a cool feature that the US-based navigation option doesnt offer.
Source for TMC/CAN units:
A) Ebay Germany ( www.ebay.de ): I bought mine from Ebay.de and it cost me $220 (shipped). There are several individuals from Europe selling these units. Even a used unit will function the same as one purchased new.
B) www.vagparts.com (search under products and SAT Nav Plus.it's in there) (FYI - If you decide to order this from Vagparts, you might as well spend the $18 on a hardcopy of the Nav+ usermanual and any other connectors/wires/pins that you need. Expect to wait at least 5-10 business days for these parts to arrive.)
C) http://www.euro-audi-parts.com ( contact@euro-audi-parts.com ) I have not dealt with these folks for Audi Nav+ components.
D) www.nav-plus.com I have not dealt with these folks, but they sell all kinds of Nav+ "add-on" components for enhancing the audio/visual experience of your Nav+.
Also, you can search under the vwnavi.com forum/classifieds for Audi TMC/CAN units. I see them for sale over there from time to time. It is not certain whether the VW TMC units (start with 3BO-XXX-XXX) will work in an Audi. However, it is my theory that the CAN function for North American users should translate the same via a TMC/CAN part# 4B1-XXX-XXX etc. http://www.vwnavi.com/vwnavi/forums/index.php
Part numbers for the TMC/CAN gateway:
There are three different versions that will work with your A6/S6/RS6/allroad (per Vagparts.com). Because those of us in the United States are only using the TMC/CAN for its CAN translation capabilities, it has been proven that any version below will work.
Audi Part# TMC/CAN Fitment
4B1 919 894 CAN for all A6/S6/RS6/allroad; TMC for MY2000 01
4B1 919 894A CAN for all A6/S6/RS6/allroad; TMC for MY2001 for vehicles in Spanish / French market
4B1 919 894B CAN for all A6/S6/RS6/allroad; TMC for MY2001 04
Please note: It has been proven that any 4B1 version will work in any US-based Nav+ installation. The 4B1 version has the CAN translation firmware in it. Per Dan Gold, there is a TMC Tuner only version (part# starts with 4B0) and a TMC/CAN gateway version (part# starts with 4B1). DO NOT PURCHASE the 4B0-XXX-XXX version as it will NOT translate the navigation/cd/radio information to your DIS; the 4B0 model is just a TMC tuner. You will notice on some of the 4B0's there is a large blue connector as well. The 4BO version is only for TMC functionality.
Other TMC/CAN parts needed:
Audi Part# Function
4A0-972-883 12 pin connector
000-979-003 Wires/pins (this will come with two pins attached by one wire at a minimum, you only need three or six pins)
Please note: These parts can be sourced directly from your local Audi Parts department. They are considered a special order item and can take up to a week to arrive. Please note: If you end up ordering a TMC/CAN gateway from www.vagparts.com, it will be cheaper for you to include these pins/wires and connectors as part of your order.
Electrically, it will probably be okay. The reason that the VAG part numbers for the CAN Gateway are different across the model range, is that the device is stocked with the mounting bracket attached, and the mounting bracket is car model specific.
.....the rest of my tech article focuses on installation specifics and wire labels etc for the 20/8/8/10/26/12 pin connectors with footnotes etc. All of that info corresponds to the pictures that are posted here:
http://www.vwnavi.com/vwnavi/photos/index.php?cat=10030
Thanks again for any input or comments.
-ted
I compiled some of this info/knowledge after reading the posts on this forum for 12 months. When I am done, I'll probably have 20+ pages of install information (to compliment Dan's site) specifically focused on the C5 A6 platform. I will need to .pdf-it and post it somewhere. My intent is to address 90% of the questions that keep arising in this forum from noob's etc.
Please let me know if you have any comments or feedback on this section of my tech article.
Here's my recent updated install pix: https://forums.audiworld.com/a6/msgs/463741.phtml
The "How to" site is now posted here: http://www.nav-plus.com/instructions/
Why are there so many Nav+ units for sale in Europe?
As an owner of a 1995-2004 A6/S6/RS6/allroad, we have an advantage when it comes to the Nav+ upgrade: they are in very high supply. As I understand it, the Nav+ option is available on most A4, A6 and A8s in Europe. For the A6 platform, the Nav+ option was commonly purchased with any new A6/S6/allroad etc. However, owners of A6s in Europe are finding themselves upgrading to aftermarket stereo/navigation equipment (it just has something to do with the demographic of an A6 owner in Europe). As a result, European stereo shops are selling them as "trade-ins" on the open market (via ebay.de aka Ebay Germany). Consequently, because the Nav+ is not a commonly purchased option for the A4 (the demographic of an A4 owner will dictate this), you will not find the same quantities on the open market. Also, the Nav+ option purchased for an A8, tend to stay installed in that car and Nav+ not get upgraded to an aftermarket solution (again, must be the demographic of an A8 owner); which makes perfect sense to me. Bottom line: If you own a C5 A6/S6/RS6/allroad, you should not have any problems finding a Nav+ unit for your car.
Some thoughts on the regular United States version of the navigation option:
If you have the United States version of the navigation option, then you are probably familiar with the navigation menu that comes up on the Drivers Instrument System (DIS). The DIS is the screen between the speedometer and tachometer. For the most part, the Nav+ has all of those functions plus a much user-friendly experience (e.g. the 5" TFT LCD screen). With the Nav+, your passenger can enter in the destination location, or find "special destinations" (i.e. restaurants, shopping areas, etc) without distracting the driver. Also, while setting the Nav+ to map mode (but not navigating to specific destination), the Nav+ will give you the name of the street/highway that you are currently traveling (which comes up in the DIS). Have you ever been driving down an unknown road/highway and you want to know what street you are on? In order to have this on your DIS, you will need the TMC/CAN gateway installed (see TMC/CAN gateway device). I have not owned an A6 with the regular navigation option, so I cant honestly speak to its limitations. However, after using the Nav+ (in conjunction with the TMC/CAN device), I can say that this is the best user experience of navigation tools that I could ever need. If you have the US navigation option and you want to upgrade to the European Nav+, then please keep note of these drawbacks:
1) Existing navigation equipment: You wont be able to use the existing jog dial (located near the parking brake) or the CD drive located in the trunk area. The jog dial can be removed, and you can install the cup holder found in most A6s. You can also probably sell your CD-drive in the used market (i.e. ebay) and recover some money.
2) GPS antenna: You can leverage your existing GPS antenna (whether it is trunk or roof mounted). In either case, you will need to locate the SMB connector in the left-hand side of your trunk; behind the CD-drive). If you want to use your existing antenna, then youd have to build or order a 15 foot coax cable with SMB connectors. Here is a company that can build one for your. FYI they will probably charge you $30-$40 for this cable. The other alternative is to purchase a new GPS antenna and mount it in the dash area (read ahead to see what I did). I purchased my antenna for $40 from www.gpsaccessories.com (See "Sources for GPS antennas") and it saved me the trouble of mounting it in the rear area and spending the time (2+ hours) to run the wire to the dash area.
3) Map disk set: If your A6 is a 2000 or 2001, then chances are, your map disk set is of the C-Navi generation. I believe in some 2001 or newer C5 A6s, was when the D-Navi based units were adopted. Youll have to check your current map set to see if it is C or D-Navi. If it is D-Navi, then you can use those map disks in your Nav+, but youll need to slightly modify them. See this link to Dans site: ( http://www.tvwiz.net/navigation/maps.html ). FYI - the last C-Navi disk update was released in the summer of 2001; so several A6 owners have been working from an old mapset.
4) Playing a CD/Tape: As you already know, the Nav+ headunit cannot play an audio CD or tape. Therefore, you will loose that capability. The OEM 6 disc CD Changer is still an option (see other input devices to the Nav+). After using my Nav+ for four+ months, Ive learned to live without that capability.
5) Recoding your system with VAG-Com: Im not sure if youll need to recode anything as a result of removing your existing navigation option and upgrading to a Nav+. From prior user experience, you do not need to recode your environment to prior to installing a Nav+ (According to a Chicago-based A6 owner - Rick Simpson. Thanks Rick!!).
If you want to use your existing GPS antenna:
Youll need to purchase a SMB to extend from your trunk area (where the Nav CD-ROM drive is located) to your center dashboard area. You will probably need a 15-20 foot cable (RG174) with SMB male and SMB female ends. SMB Connector Below is an example of a 900 angle female end to be inserted behind the back of your Nav+ head unit.
Sources for SMB cables: http://www.navtechgps.com/supply/misc.asp
http://www.elabelsys.com/digitek/smb_series.htm
http://www.mainlinegroup.co.uk/mless/main.php?act=Card&id_element=892
http://www.midwestelectronics.com/product_info.php/cPath/91/products_id/90
GPS antenna options (OEM and non-OEM):
If you are planning a Nav+ installation, chances are, your Audi does not have an OEM GPS antenna. Therefore you need to add one. You can purchase one from the dealer, and spend a lot of money for an OEM part, or you can purchase an aftermarket version that will work exactly the same. It all depends on whether or not you want your GPS antenna to be visible or invisible from the outside of your car.
Sources for GPS antennas:
www.gpsaccessories.com (I ordered the SMB version with a 3 meter cable for mounting it inside the dash)
www.midwestelectronics.com
OEM Avant roofmounted (Audi part# 8L0 035 501B. FYI the antenna rod is Audi part#: 8D9 035 849) FYI this particular antenna supports GPS, AM/FM, and a cellular phone.
OEM "Sharkfin" style (Audi part# N/A). I dont have any experience with these OEM antennas, but I do believe that these versions include AM/FM, cellular phone, GPS and XM functionality.
Where to source the Nav+ units:
1) Brokers/Importers:
There are a few places to source these units if you live in the United States. A majority of folks that Ive dealt with were able to find "brokers" who had imported a dozen or so of these units and sold them with installation kits and the appropriate wiring connectors. To me this seemed to be the best option because the broker assumes all of the risk for importing the Nav+ units and insuring that they operate correctly. Most brokers will also load the most current firmware (see Dan Golds site for details http://www.nav-plus.com/instructions/software.html ) or software version and code the Nav+ unit to be more specific to your A6. Items like Bose vs. non-Bose, tire diameter are all preconfigured so when you use a VAG-COM to setup your Nav+ and instrument cluster, 80% of the coding is already done. In my opinion, the broker/importer is your best option and worth the extra $100-$300 premium.
Jon Lofquist (JonLofquist@aol.com) is a trusted Audi Enthusiast who has contacts in Germany and imports these units and puts together packages. He lives in the Minneapolis area and has sold these units to several A6 owners.
2) Open/Used Market (i.e. Ebay.de or Ebay Germany):
Outside of using a broker/importer, your next best option is dealing with someone from Europe. As mentioned earlier, the A6 versions are in high supply, so you should see a few dozen of them on Ebay.de (aka: Ebay Germany). The price for these units can range from $500 to $1000 USD (including currency conversion, wire transfer fee and shipping costs. There are a handful of folks selling these Nav+ units. Ive dealt with a person in Germany that goes by the name Bas Nadia and he has been the most reliable. In fact, I purchased my TMC/CAN gateway from him and shipped it to me within a week of my bank wire transfer. See Dans site for more information on how to carry out a bank wire transfer http://www.tvwiz.net/navigation/ebay.html
Also, you can search under the vwnavi.com forum to research information on sellers from Europe. http://www.vwnavi.com/vwnavi/forums/index.php
3) Places like Avalon Motorsports, www.euro-audi-parts.com and www.nav-plus.com:
Avalon Motorsports and Euro-Audi-Parts sell brand new Nav+ units. Because these units are brand new, you can expect to spend $2500+ on the head unit alone. Avalon also has a network of installation shops around the country. I have not dealt with Avalon, so I cant comment on their pricing or installation services. Please contact Avalon Motorsports for more details:
Avalon Motorsports, LLC.
303-400-3001
www.avalonmotorsports.com
www.euro-audi-parts.com
Sky Tougas, President & Co-Founder
www.Nav-Plus.com
Tel: 401.741.9061
Fax: 401.782.4455
Email: info@nav-plus.com
Part numbers for the Nav+ headunit (D-Navi only):
Audi Part# Fitment (A6/S6/RS6/allroad)
4B0-035-192 (Revision F-through H) MY1999.5 to 2001. I purchased the H version as it matched the glossy black plastic interior of my 2001 A6. The H version seems to be popular and in high supply.
4B0-035-192 (Revision K and higher) MY2002-2004. This will match the matte grey/black plastic interior. The K and L versions seems to be popular and in high supply.
Please note: If you order one of these units, make sure it comes with the correct 4-digit security code.
Other Nav+ Head unit parts needed:
Audi Part# Function
3B0-919-754 26 pin connector
000-979-010 Wires/pins (this will come with two pins attached by one wire at a minimum, you only need three quantity) Please note: These parts can be sourced directly from your local Audi Parts department. They are considered a special order item and can take up to a week to arrive. If you end up ordering an Nav+ related parts from www.vagparts.com, it will be cheaper for you to include these pins/wires and connectors as part of your order.
Why consider adding a TMC/CAN gateway:
The TMC/CAN gateway is a device used in Europe to capture Traffic Message Channel (TMC) information via the radio station and sent to the navigation units to enable you to navigate around upcoming traffic delays or accidents. TMC is a service that you pay for in Europe. In Europe, it can be transmitted within standard public audio broadcasts - in the UK it is carried by ClassicFM, or obtained via cellphone calls. Unfortunately TMC was not adopted in North America. Therefore the TMC portion of the device is not used.
What is CAN?
CAN is the databus that all/most/some of the electronic systems use to communicate. Essentially correct - CAN (Controller Area Network) bus was developed by Bosch, the German electronics company. - Definition courtesy of Peter Bell ( peter@bellfamily.org.uk )
The CAN portion of the device is used to translate the navigation, radio and CD information from the Nav+ to the instrument cluster. FYI The Nav+ is developed by Blaupunkt for Audi as an OEM component. The TMC/CAN gateway translates those CAN signals from Blaupunkt to Audis protocol. In the D3 A8 and the C6 A6, CAN will be used more widely to integrate all components together into one network. The TMC/CAN gateway is optional and not required to use a Nav+. The TMC/CAN device can be purchased new from Vagparts.com for $400 or used (via ebay.de) for $100-$250. Prior to purchasing all of my Nav+ parts, I determined that having the navigation information on the DIS was mandatory for me. In my opinion, it is too much of a safety hazard to be constantly looking at a map screen while driving.
As an A6 owner, this was the purchase criteria that I used:
1) Navigation information on DIS:
In addition to the cool map display, you get directional arrows in your DIS for right turn, left turn, etc. The best part is that it gives you a total driving distance to your destination, estimated time of arrival (ETA) and the mileage before your next turn. The ETA is also being recalculated depending on the speed of travel. This allows you to keep your eyes on the road. I tend to look down at the map display when I need a point of reference in my travels. Also, I can toggle the DIS information (using the reset button on the right side stalk) between the navigation/map display and the outside temperature/trip computer display. Very cool!
2) Use of Steering wheel/Radio/CD controls:
Also, in an A6, the TMC/CAN gateway will allow you to retain your steering wheel radio/CD controls when you upgrade to the Nav+. The steering wheel (with radio/CD controls) is just one particular "node" that resides on the CAN-bus network. In 2002, A6s began to use the CAN-bus network to connect all kinds of electronic "nodes" into this system.
3) Street/Highway information:
While in map mode in the Nav+, the DIS provides you with a compass (N, S, E, W) and a label for the street or highway name. I really like knowing what street/highway I am driving down; this is a cool feature that the US-based navigation option doesnt offer.
Source for TMC/CAN units:
A) Ebay Germany ( www.ebay.de ): I bought mine from Ebay.de and it cost me $220 (shipped). There are several individuals from Europe selling these units. Even a used unit will function the same as one purchased new.
B) www.vagparts.com (search under products and SAT Nav Plus.it's in there) (FYI - If you decide to order this from Vagparts, you might as well spend the $18 on a hardcopy of the Nav+ usermanual and any other connectors/wires/pins that you need. Expect to wait at least 5-10 business days for these parts to arrive.)
C) http://www.euro-audi-parts.com ( contact@euro-audi-parts.com ) I have not dealt with these folks for Audi Nav+ components.
D) www.nav-plus.com I have not dealt with these folks, but they sell all kinds of Nav+ "add-on" components for enhancing the audio/visual experience of your Nav+.
Also, you can search under the vwnavi.com forum/classifieds for Audi TMC/CAN units. I see them for sale over there from time to time. It is not certain whether the VW TMC units (start with 3BO-XXX-XXX) will work in an Audi. However, it is my theory that the CAN function for North American users should translate the same via a TMC/CAN part# 4B1-XXX-XXX etc. http://www.vwnavi.com/vwnavi/forums/index.php
Part numbers for the TMC/CAN gateway:
There are three different versions that will work with your A6/S6/RS6/allroad (per Vagparts.com). Because those of us in the United States are only using the TMC/CAN for its CAN translation capabilities, it has been proven that any version below will work.
Audi Part# TMC/CAN Fitment
4B1 919 894 CAN for all A6/S6/RS6/allroad; TMC for MY2000 01
4B1 919 894A CAN for all A6/S6/RS6/allroad; TMC for MY2001 for vehicles in Spanish / French market
4B1 919 894B CAN for all A6/S6/RS6/allroad; TMC for MY2001 04
Please note: It has been proven that any 4B1 version will work in any US-based Nav+ installation. The 4B1 version has the CAN translation firmware in it. Per Dan Gold, there is a TMC Tuner only version (part# starts with 4B0) and a TMC/CAN gateway version (part# starts with 4B1). DO NOT PURCHASE the 4B0-XXX-XXX version as it will NOT translate the navigation/cd/radio information to your DIS; the 4B0 model is just a TMC tuner. You will notice on some of the 4B0's there is a large blue connector as well. The 4BO version is only for TMC functionality.
Other TMC/CAN parts needed:
Audi Part# Function
4A0-972-883 12 pin connector
000-979-003 Wires/pins (this will come with two pins attached by one wire at a minimum, you only need three or six pins)
Please note: These parts can be sourced directly from your local Audi Parts department. They are considered a special order item and can take up to a week to arrive. Please note: If you end up ordering a TMC/CAN gateway from www.vagparts.com, it will be cheaper for you to include these pins/wires and connectors as part of your order.
Electrically, it will probably be okay. The reason that the VAG part numbers for the CAN Gateway are different across the model range, is that the device is stocked with the mounting bracket attached, and the mounting bracket is car model specific.
.....the rest of my tech article focuses on installation specifics and wire labels etc for the 20/8/8/10/26/12 pin connectors with footnotes etc. All of that info corresponds to the pictures that are posted here:
http://www.vwnavi.com/vwnavi/photos/index.php?cat=10030
Thanks again for any input or comments.
-ted
01-10-2005, 10:26 AM
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Why so many NAV+ Available
Something to add here. I lived in Germany for 6 years and typically when a car is sold used it does not come with a radio period. Of course there are exceptions to this it just seemed that 99% of the cars I saw were without radio head unit. I guess that's how they sell them there. They don't consider it part of the car.
01-10-2005, 12:40 PM
#7
maybe....read my post again....my theory
Why are there so many Nav+ units for sale in Europe?
As an owner of a 1995-2004 A6/S6/RS6/allroad, we have an advantage when it comes to the Nav+ upgrade: they are in very high supply. As I understand it, the Nav+ option is available on most A4, A6 and A8s in Europe. For the A6 platform, the Nav+ option was commonly purchased with any new A6/S6/allroad etc. However, owners of A6s in Europe are finding themselves upgrading to aftermarket stereo/navigation equipment (it just has something to do with the demographic of an A6 owner in Europe). As a result, European stereo shops are selling them as "trade-ins" on the open market (via ebay.de aka Ebay Germany). Consequently, because the Nav+ is not a commonly purchased option for the A4 (the demographic of an A4 owner will dictate this), you will not find the same quantities on the open market. Also, the Nav+ option purchased for an A8, tend to stay installed in that car and Nav+ not get upgraded to an aftermarket solution (again, must be the demographic of an A8 owner); which makes perfect sense to me. Bottom line: If you own a C5 A6/S6/RS6/allroad, you should not have any problems finding a Nav+ unit for your car.
As an owner of a 1995-2004 A6/S6/RS6/allroad, we have an advantage when it comes to the Nav+ upgrade: they are in very high supply. As I understand it, the Nav+ option is available on most A4, A6 and A8s in Europe. For the A6 platform, the Nav+ option was commonly purchased with any new A6/S6/allroad etc. However, owners of A6s in Europe are finding themselves upgrading to aftermarket stereo/navigation equipment (it just has something to do with the demographic of an A6 owner in Europe). As a result, European stereo shops are selling them as "trade-ins" on the open market (via ebay.de aka Ebay Germany). Consequently, because the Nav+ is not a commonly purchased option for the A4 (the demographic of an A4 owner will dictate this), you will not find the same quantities on the open market. Also, the Nav+ option purchased for an A8, tend to stay installed in that car and Nav+ not get upgraded to an aftermarket solution (again, must be the demographic of an A8 owner); which makes perfect sense to me. Bottom line: If you own a C5 A6/S6/RS6/allroad, you should not have any problems finding a Nav+ unit for your car.
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01-10-2005, 01:36 PM
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I would agree....
I'm just mentioning what I noticed when I lived there. You are correct the higher end vehicles A8 were typically complete. Mid and lower end A6-A4 were typically missing the radio. Now if this was done by the owner removing the custom radio to install in the new car or the dealer removing it to sell as an option I'm not sure about. It could be both because it always seemed that the guy selling cars had a storage room full of radios if you wanted one. They may have pulled them to prevent them from getting stolen on an empty lot. I never thought of that until now though. Of course this was a few years before NAV+ was an idea. Back then they were doing it to get a CD player in the car which they didn't have stock.
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