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Last winter I opted to not use winter tires and it turned out to be the right call as we barely had any snow and had record 'highs'. This year, I'm not going to chance it as I've recently moved and it's a lot colder and snow'ier' here.
The OEM tire/rim option from Audi Canada is a little over $3K for everything mounted/balanced. That makes it a very solid value proposition because OEM rims, by themselves, cost something like $700 each! That said, I am aware of aftermarket options and personally try to avoid them.
The problem is that the OEM option comes with Michelin Pilot Alpin 5s which is a low wear, high performance snow tire. To me, that's moronic because the whole point of buying snow tires is to get the best snow/ice traction possible, especially in a country like Canada. Then again, the only other option I have to stick to OEM rims is to buy the rims themselves for, what, $2800 which is silly because then I'd spend another $1200 to buy the tires I want, right?
So there in lies my conundrum. Dealerships here report owners are satisfied with the PA5s which make me question myself a bit. These big heavy cars chew through tires quickly due to the weight during cornering, and the like. So maybe I am in the wrong here and maybe I am overthinking it.
Anyone have any feedback on "performance" snow tires on these 2.5 ton cars? More importantly, anyone regret the purchase? Last winter I laughed all the way to the bank by 'saving' on not buying a winter set, and that has me a bit trigger shy this time around.
I just swapped out my Goodyear OE summer tires for Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4 tires, $340 USD each. Supposedly great all rounders and high performance for winter without committing to exclusively winter tires. (Apparently the new corvette comes standard with these tires). Buying a second set of OE rims and also new AS tires was an expense I didn’t want to make this year. We shall see if Michelins work well in Michigan. Say that 10 times fast. Happy so far with dry and rain, but no snow yet. Fairly quiet. Next spring, I may buy those good looking 2020 S8 20” rims and put my Goodyear OE summer tires on for kicks.
I'm pretty much a lifelong winter tire user...and you are right, they do not last long if you are mostly on dry or just wet roads. Which is why (I think) they don't have UTQG ratings. If you are always on snow/ice then it is probably a different story.
It sounds like you might be served better by a 4-season or all-weather tire.
For starters here is my track record of winter tires over the span of roughly 20 years: (Some cars are not as heavy as the A8 obviously, but you get the gist.)
2001 S4
Dunlop Wintersport M2 - 22641 total miles before I got rid of the car...wear rate 5660 miles/32nd". (Probably would have made it to 34k miles before reaching 4/32"(winter tire wear limit))
2007 A4
Dunlop Wintersport 3D - only had them for 4875 miles, never measure wear rate
2008 A6
Dunlop Wintersport 3D - only had them for 9509 miles, never measure wear rate
2012 S4
Dunlop Wintersport 3D - 20960 total miles and worn to the winter wear limit 4/32") So about 3500 miles/32nd"
Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4 - (I absolutely hated these tires.) - Only had them for 2440 miles before changing cars
2014 SQ5
Continental CrossContact Winter - 30907 total miles...admittedly these were at 5/32", but I was in a position to replace them and did not want to push the extra 32nd. About 6200 miles/32nd"
Nokian Hakkapelitta R3 SUV - (Way far overkill, but I stupidly wanted to try them out. Plus price was reasonable...not compared to wear rate though.) They are a full nordic tire and really not necessary unless maybe if went over the Rockies into ski country. They actually start with 12/32" instead of the normal 10/32". By my calculations unless they will wear far less later on I'm only getting 2000 miles/32nd"!
2015 S6 (This should be closest in weight and wear to your A8 I feel, even though the SQ5 weighs the exact same as the S6...SUV vs. Sedan)
Continental WinterContact TS830P - 15364 total miles 2500 miles/32nd" (For comparison I got 2300miles/32nd" on my Michelin PSS summer tires)
Vredestein Wintrac Pro - Just bought these and have not even installed them yet. I actually wanted to try their new Quatrac Pro which is a grand touring all-season tire with decent snow ratings from what I can see, but they did not have them available in my size yet and I needed something now.
Since they are only installed for winter the amount of actual time (vs. mileage) they last is quite long and in many cases they make it 6 years so that is usually my age out limit for tire lifespan anyway (I know you can really go 10 years since they are not out in the sun all the time, but 6 is generally good enough for me anyway.)
As you can see most of the above are the "performance" winter tire variety. In some cases you can only find the "winter performance" variety in the size you want.
Pros
Good winter performance/traction on snow
Good enough wet and dry performance when compared to summer performance tires in the summer
Cons
Poor treadwear
Can be noisy especially as they wear
Usually more expensive than equally sized a/s
Now, after all that being said and like I mentioned at the beginning I'd think a 4-season or all-weather tire would be for you ...in particular that Vredestein Quatrac Pro looks very interesting if they come in a size you wanted. Or Nokian WR G4 again if they make it in a size that works for you.
Some other alternatives might be Continental Extremecontact DWS06 which many other Audi drivers seem to like for light snow. Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4 as AudiConverted mentioned looks like a nice option too.
Assuming you'd go with a 19" setup then yeah I'd think you'd be at least at $2600 for wheels and $1000+ for the A/S tires, but they might last longer than the winter performance that comes with the Audi kit. I'd think you could get down to $2400 for wheels but at what point do you compromise quality for price.
I like his reviews it may give some more insight if you have not seen it already.
One of the things mentioned which I did not think of before is if you go for ultimate snow/ice traction as you mention you do sacrifice some dry performance....particularly braking dependent on temperatures. This is wear I feel the "performance winter" tire seems to excel It allows for that quality of performance and in particular braking in the dry and when the temperatures are "warmer" which for me tends to happen often, but then when snow hits they can handle that very well too.
I admit I am biased since I almost always have had summer performance tires on my Audis when it is warm so I am required to put something else on once the temps drop below 45F. I could opt for an all-season perhaps with a snow traction compromise or the performance winter with mainly a treadwear deficit but with better snow performance. I also prefer the benefit of different wheels for winter (less concerned with wheel damage) and with different size (sidewall height) tires. In your case it might be worth trying the stock a/s setup you have this winter to see if any change is truly warranted since you are not rocking summer tires and I am sure plenty of people get by with stock a/s tires in the snow/winter.
I understand it's a lot to digest and I may have repeated myself. I know you (angry) will have made it to the end but if I've made any confusing statements or you have any questions please ask, I feel like I have quite a bit of experience and done quite a bit of research with this subject in particular and I'd like to try to share it so you hopefully make the best decision possible.
I'm pretty much a lifelong winter tire user...and you are right, they do not last long if you are mostly on dry or just wet roads. Which is why (I think) they don't have UTQG ratings. If you are always on snow/ice then it is probably a different story.
It sounds like you might be served better by a 4-season or all-weather tire.
For starters here is my track record of winter tires over the span of roughly 20 years: (Some cars are not as heavy as the A8 obviously, but you get the gist.)
2001 S4
Dunlop Wintersport M2 - 22641 total miles before I got rid of the car...wear rate 5660 miles/32nd". (Probably would have made it to 34k miles before reaching 4/32"(winter tire wear limit))
2007 A4
Dunlop Wintersport 3D - only had them for 4875 miles, never measure wear rate
2008 A6
Dunlop Wintersport 3D - only had them for 9509 miles, never measure wear rate
2012 S4
Dunlop Wintersport 3D - 20960 total miles and worn to the winter wear limit 4/32") So about 3500 miles/32nd"
Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4 - (I absolutely hated these tires.) - Only had them for 2440 miles before changing cars
2014 SQ5
Continental CrossContact Winter - 30907 total miles...admittedly these were at 5/32", but I was in a position to replace them and did not want to push the extra 32nd. About 6200 miles/32nd"
Nokian Hakkapelitta R3 SUV - (Way far overkill, but I stupidly wanted to try them out. Plus price was reasonable...not compared to wear rate though.) They are a full nordic tire and really not necessary unless maybe if went over the Rockies into ski country. They actually start with 12/32" instead of the normal 10/32". By my calculations unless they will wear far less later on I'm only getting 2000 miles/32nd"!
2015 S6 (This should be closest in weight and wear to your A8 I feel, even though the SQ5 weighs the exact same as the S6...SUV vs. Sedan)
Continental WinterContact TS830P - 15364 total miles 2500 miles/32nd" (For comparison I got 2300miles/32nd" on my Michelin PSS summer tires)
Vredestein Wintrac Pro - Just bought these and have not even installed them yet. I actually wanted to try their new Quatrac Pro which is a grand touring all-season tire with decent snow ratings from what I can see, but they did not have them available in my size yet and I needed something now.
Since they are only installed for winter the amount of actual time (vs. mileage) they last is quite long and in many cases they make it 6 years so that is usually my age out limit for tire lifespan anyway (I know you can really go 10 years since they are not out in the sun all the time, but 6 is generally good enough for me anyway.)
As you can see most of the above are the "performance" winter tire variety. In some cases you can only find the "winter performance" variety in the size you want.
Pros
Good winter performance/traction on snow
Good enough wet and dry performance when compared to summer performance tires in the summer
Cons
Poor treadwear
Can be noisy especially as they wear
Usually more expensive than equally sized a/s
Now, after all that being said and like I mentioned at the beginning I'd think a 4-season or all-weather tire would be for you ...in particular that Vredestein Quatrac Pro looks very interesting if they come in a size you wanted. Or Nokian WR G4 again if they make it in a size that works for you.
Some other alternatives might be Continental Extremecontact DWS06 which many other Audi drivers seem to like for light snow. Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4 as AudiConverted mentioned looks like a nice option too.
Assuming you'd go with a 19" setup then yeah I'd think you'd be at least at $2600 for wheels and $1000+ for the A/S tires, but they might last longer than the winter performance that comes with the Audi kit. I'd think you could get down to $2400 for wheels but at what point do you compromise quality for price.
One of the things mentioned which I did not think of before is if you go for ultimate snow/ice traction as you mention you do sacrifice some dry performance....particularly braking dependent on temperatures. This is wear I feel the "performance winter" tire seems to excel It allows for that quality of performance and in particular braking in the dry and when the temperatures are "warmer" which for me tends to happen often, but then when snow hits they can handle that very well too.
I admit I am biased since I almost always have had summer performance tires on my Audis when it is warm so I am required to put something else on once the temps drop below 45F. I could opt for an all-season perhaps with a snow traction compromise or the performance winter with mainly a treadwear deficit but with better snow performance. I also prefer the benefit of different wheels for winter (less concerned with wheel damage) and with different size (sidewall height) tires. In your case it might be worth trying the stock a/s setup you have this winter to see if any change is truly warranted since you are not rocking summer tires and I am sure plenty of people get by with stock a/s tires in the snow/winter.
I understand it's a lot to digest and I may have repeated myself. I know you (angry) will have made it to the end but if I've made any confusing statements or you have any questions please ask, I feel like I have quite a bit of experience and done quite a bit of research with this subject in particular and I'd like to try to share it so you hopefully make the best decision possible.
You've provided so much value to this conversation I don't even know where to start.
Thank you so very much! I'm actually more inclined to go with a performance snow tire now than before given the tradeoffs and personal experiences on your list. Thank you!!
I will review all if this ad nauseam again in the AM!
We are up in Alaska, and contend with it quite a bit of snow and ice, so we went with Studded Nokian Hakkapeliitta 9 (105T-SUV) in 255/45/R20 to replace the summer Goodyear Eagle Sports in 265/40R20
They were solid last winter and the very slight tire+wheel diameter increase had zero impact on performance and no rubbing with the all-wheel steering.
Just ordered up the Audi winter tire/wheel package. Winter tires are the way to go for ice and snow on a hilly one-third mile long driveway and rural roads in Minnesota.
These are absolutely fantastic. I wont be buying anymore separate winter/summer sets. Tested them in all kinds of weather on my car in Michigan and was really impressed. Ended up installing them on all 3 of my cars
These are absolutely fantastic. I wont be buying anymore separate winter/summer sets. Tested them in all kinds of weather on my car in Michigan and was really impressed. Ended up installing them on all 3 of my cars
Considering how heavy the D5 is, and how well it chews through the shoulder blocks even at low mileage and w/ overinflation, I'm curious how that tire does in the hot summers. Also, it's a pretty noisy tire when compared to grand touring tires. There is no way I'd ever consider an all climate tire, and I was a big fan of the original Nokian tyres that featured this sort of benefit from a decade ago.
Considering how heavy the D5 is, and how well it chews through the shoulder blocks even at low mileage and w/ overinflation, I'm curious how that tire does in the hot summers. Also, it's a pretty noisy tire when compared to grand touring tires. There is no way I'd ever consider an all climate tire, and I was a big fan of the original Nokian tyres that featured this sort of benefit from a decade ago.
I owned two sets of different models of all season Nokian. One I bought myself and another was already installed on my wife's car when we got it. Complete garbage in my experience. Bad in the snow, no traction in the rain. Have no idea how Nokian was able to make such a bad product.
While Crossclimate is a bit noisier than some other tires, there is not enough noise to make it bothersome
09-09-2020, 06:24 AM
Winter tire options for the D5?
