D5
10-25-2016, 03:10 PM
#3
AudiWorld Super User
Au contraire mon frère. The profit margins on the A8 are quite large, and it's a good testbed for all kinds of new tech. Unless you were referring to the relatively low sales figures, in which case the sales crown jumps to the Q5 or Q7. That timeline sounds right, even without the diesel woes.
10-26-2016, 05:49 AM
#4
AudiWorld Super User
I suspect you are correct about profit margin on the A8/S8 cars and I was referring to the low sales volume. Most of Audi's profits are coming from the lower end cars. And I think they are going to be all about profit for a few years. Building the Q5 in Mexico is going to have a significant positive impact on their bottom line. But the diesel buy backs are going to hurt VAG as a whole badly.
10-26-2016, 08:11 AM
#7
AudiWorld Super User
Other reasons for delay beyond TDI related belt tightening are spelled T-E-S-L-A.
I am not a fan boy, but the market has changed a lot. A8 (and a lot of other pricy luxobarges) have been creamed by Tesla. D4 now way outsold by them in USA And now even in Euro home markets for various reasons, often tax/incentive driven. Tesla also markets to the techno types, which was heavily an Audi market too. And once they got to D drive (AWD), Audi's historical differentiator dried up. Sure, quattro sophistication and all, but for 95%+ of buyers, they don't know the nuances and anything "AWD" is good enough. In turn it takes time to implement a good electric design. Meantime their D4 little known one is a piece o crap--sold (barely) only in home market and China. Basically a FWD only kludge version of the Q5 one I own. They--and competitors--are now realizing you really want the batteries low down in the body, which takes a much more fundamental redesign than just squirreling them here and there, reducing or eliminating gas tank and putting some there, etc. Add to it, Audi poo pooed both hybrid and electric until they got royally skewered on TDI fraud and they found new religion. See my recent post here on how far this thinking has changed: https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a8-...-w-d5-2908310/
Then, add autonomous. Lots and lots of changes. And as fast as Audi innovates, someone else moves the bar again. Lots of Tesla in here too (and the techno marketing angle), though the curtain was pulled back some on the "wizard" here in the last year or so. Meanwhile in here, Audi actually found virtual dash, which while not autonomous seems to be playing well for the "gee wiz" effect and techno marketing. They are pushing that out quickly on all the models now as they get rev'ed.
Beyond this, also add other deeper thought areas like whether to shift even on gas/diesel drive to electric on one end like various of the supercars have already pioneered and is occasionally found on much more mundane stuff like Lexus RX's now, rethink of MMI at a more basic level where the D body typically leads, etc.
The largest here--Tesla market erosion, TDI fraud outed, CEO and top R&D types ejected out of the executive suite (after fingers were pried off door jambs), electric rethink, autonomous developments, etc.--have occurred during the D5 development cycle. Since I only upgrade rarely, happy to let them take their time and get it right and for a newer design to better stand test of time and market dynamics.
I am not a fan boy, but the market has changed a lot. A8 (and a lot of other pricy luxobarges) have been creamed by Tesla. D4 now way outsold by them in USA And now even in Euro home markets for various reasons, often tax/incentive driven. Tesla also markets to the techno types, which was heavily an Audi market too. And once they got to D drive (AWD), Audi's historical differentiator dried up. Sure, quattro sophistication and all, but for 95%+ of buyers, they don't know the nuances and anything "AWD" is good enough. In turn it takes time to implement a good electric design. Meantime their D4 little known one is a piece o crap--sold (barely) only in home market and China. Basically a FWD only kludge version of the Q5 one I own. They--and competitors--are now realizing you really want the batteries low down in the body, which takes a much more fundamental redesign than just squirreling them here and there, reducing or eliminating gas tank and putting some there, etc. Add to it, Audi poo pooed both hybrid and electric until they got royally skewered on TDI fraud and they found new religion. See my recent post here on how far this thinking has changed: https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a8-...-w-d5-2908310/
Then, add autonomous. Lots and lots of changes. And as fast as Audi innovates, someone else moves the bar again. Lots of Tesla in here too (and the techno marketing angle), though the curtain was pulled back some on the "wizard" here in the last year or so. Meanwhile in here, Audi actually found virtual dash, which while not autonomous seems to be playing well for the "gee wiz" effect and techno marketing. They are pushing that out quickly on all the models now as they get rev'ed.
Beyond this, also add other deeper thought areas like whether to shift even on gas/diesel drive to electric on one end like various of the supercars have already pioneered and is occasionally found on much more mundane stuff like Lexus RX's now, rethink of MMI at a more basic level where the D body typically leads, etc.
The largest here--Tesla market erosion, TDI fraud outed, CEO and top R&D types ejected out of the executive suite (after fingers were pried off door jambs), electric rethink, autonomous developments, etc.--have occurred during the D5 development cycle. Since I only upgrade rarely, happy to let them take their time and get it right and for a newer design to better stand test of time and market dynamics.
Last edited by MP4.2+6.0; 10-26-2016 at 08:15 AM.
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10-27-2016, 05:55 AM
#8
If already asked, forgive! Why no pic of your D4S8 in sig?
Other reasons for delay beyond TDI related belt tightening are spelled T-E-S-L-A.
I am not a fan boy, but the market has changed a lot. A8 (and a lot of other pricy luxobarges) have been creamed by Tesla. D4 now way outsold by them in USA And now even in Euro home markets for various reasons, often tax/incentive driven. Tesla also markets to the techno types, which was heavily an Audi market too. And once they got to D drive (AWD), Audi's historical differentiator dried up. Sure, quattro sophistication and all, but for 95%+ of buyers, they don't know the nuances and anything "AWD" is good enough. In turn it takes time to implement a good electric design. Meantime their D4 little known one is a piece o crap--sold (barely) only in home market and China. Basically a FWD only kludge version of the Q5 one I own. They--and competitors--are now realizing you really want the batteries low down in the body, which takes a much more fundamental redesign than just squirreling them here and there, reducing or eliminating gas tank and putting some there, etc. Add to it, Audi poo pooed both hybrid and electric until they got royally skewered on TDI fraud and they found new religion. See my recent post here on how far this thinking has changed: https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a8-...-w-d5-2908310/
Then, add autonomous. Lots and lots of changes. And as fast as Audi innovates, someone else moves the bar again. Lots of Tesla in here too (and the techno marketing angle), though the curtain was pulled back some on the "wizard" here in the last year or so. Meanwhile in here, Audi actually found virtual dash, which while not autonomous seems to be playing well for the "gee wiz" effect and techno marketing. They are pushing that out quickly on all the models now as they get rev'ed.
Beyond this, also add other deeper thought areas like whether to shift even on gas/diesel drive to electric on one end like various of the supercars have already pioneered and is occasionally found on much more mundane stuff like Lexus RX's now, rethink of MMI at a more basic level where the D body typically leads, etc.
The largest here--Tesla market erosion, TDI fraud outed, CEO and top R&D types ejected out of the executive suite (after fingers were pried off door jambs), electric rethink, autonomous developments, etc.--have occurred during the D5 development cycle. Since I only upgrade rarely, happy to let them take their time and get it right and for a newer design to better stand test of time and market dynamics.
I am not a fan boy, but the market has changed a lot. A8 (and a lot of other pricy luxobarges) have been creamed by Tesla. D4 now way outsold by them in USA And now even in Euro home markets for various reasons, often tax/incentive driven. Tesla also markets to the techno types, which was heavily an Audi market too. And once they got to D drive (AWD), Audi's historical differentiator dried up. Sure, quattro sophistication and all, but for 95%+ of buyers, they don't know the nuances and anything "AWD" is good enough. In turn it takes time to implement a good electric design. Meantime their D4 little known one is a piece o crap--sold (barely) only in home market and China. Basically a FWD only kludge version of the Q5 one I own. They--and competitors--are now realizing you really want the batteries low down in the body, which takes a much more fundamental redesign than just squirreling them here and there, reducing or eliminating gas tank and putting some there, etc. Add to it, Audi poo pooed both hybrid and electric until they got royally skewered on TDI fraud and they found new religion. See my recent post here on how far this thinking has changed: https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a8-...-w-d5-2908310/
Then, add autonomous. Lots and lots of changes. And as fast as Audi innovates, someone else moves the bar again. Lots of Tesla in here too (and the techno marketing angle), though the curtain was pulled back some on the "wizard" here in the last year or so. Meanwhile in here, Audi actually found virtual dash, which while not autonomous seems to be playing well for the "gee wiz" effect and techno marketing. They are pushing that out quickly on all the models now as they get rev'ed.
Beyond this, also add other deeper thought areas like whether to shift even on gas/diesel drive to electric on one end like various of the supercars have already pioneered and is occasionally found on much more mundane stuff like Lexus RX's now, rethink of MMI at a more basic level where the D body typically leads, etc.
The largest here--Tesla market erosion, TDI fraud outed, CEO and top R&D types ejected out of the executive suite (after fingers were pried off door jambs), electric rethink, autonomous developments, etc.--have occurred during the D5 development cycle. Since I only upgrade rarely, happy to let them take their time and get it right and for a newer design to better stand test of time and market dynamics.
10-27-2016, 08:13 AM
#9
AudiWorld Super User
Need to reformat existing pics to fit w/ way AW does it when you use multiple. The motor in the avatar (left side) though is my actual underhood w/ cover off. Did that at first for stealth mode for the more advanced spotters to "find Waldo"--a few on D3 board did a week or two in. But I need to get a good S8 shot to update.
10-27-2016, 08:59 AM
#10
Is that pic of your Q5 in front of the Ingolstadt factory? Did you take delivery there? EDIT (just saw you did take delivery in Ingolstadt)
Was traveling with friends to Europe via Munich a couple years ago & took a train out to Audi Forum Ingolstadt! Saw a train load of Q5's leaving the station that day along with fun visit to the forum, museum, etc. Saw an S6 Avant in the parking lot. Ran into Audi engineers, working of driverless car tech stuff, told them I was a D3 S8 owner from the US (at the time). Very nice engineers, asked a few questions, etc.
Was traveling with friends to Europe via Munich a couple years ago & took a train out to Audi Forum Ingolstadt! Saw a train load of Q5's leaving the station that day along with fun visit to the forum, museum, etc. Saw an S6 Avant in the parking lot. Ran into Audi engineers, working of driverless car tech stuff, told them I was a D3 S8 owner from the US (at the time). Very nice engineers, asked a few questions, etc.
Need to reformat existing pics to fit w/ way AW does it when you use multiple. The motor in the avatar (left side) though is my actual underhood w/ cover off. Did that at first for stealth mode for the more advanced spotters to "find Waldo"--a few on D3 board did a week or two in. But I need to get a good S8 shot to update.