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So, have owned the car soon for 9 years, a few years ago it started sporadically throwing timing chain related codes like P0017 (from my memory). The engine has absolutely no chain noise or rattle even if it has sat for a week or two (I do once a week a 150km drive to my city "cottage", this is what tne car has seen for the last 9 years, plus a few trips to southern europe in summers)
329000km on the odo, BUT at least 106k has been deleted so it has at least 435000km (so around 270k miles) on it. Oil change history is good, first few years it has been Audi Austria dealership maintained untill I bought it, and after me it has had oil changed at least once a year independent of mileage, so last 5 years at 10000km interval, always Castrol 5W30 FST 504.00.
Then now in the winter I have started getting them soon after code reset.
P0017, 0019, 0024, 0026 and even unrelated p0264.
So these are cam/crank correlation codes and 0024 ald 0026 are VVT timing problem codes, so they all pinpoint to worn chains.
The engine has started loosing A LOT (100-250hp) of power in the upper range, like over 3500rpm, sounds like an exhaust leak OR exhaust leaking into intake air or something just wrong and the performance is poor over 3500rpm.
So probably an engine out for me this spring, I will probably fix the leaking transmission torque converter seal at the same time (it's been leaking for years).
I will post a presentation video of the car and engine out and disassembly videos on my youtube channel if you are interested.
This is apparently really rare to swap chains on these, BUT there are aftermarket sets believe it or not for around 500€ ! I think I will drop the engine first and see actual carnage before I order stuff.
Did some more diagnostics with ODIS and ran the cam shaft VVT actuator solenoid tests. It showed that timing chains are most likely not stretched, but the solenoids respond slowly and are most likely clogged with sludge.
Could verify this on highway driving. After an overtake and having the cruise set at 100km/h the car should consume around 10L/100km on the instantaneous consumption meter. It often got stuck at 13-14L/100km for a few moments (20s-120seconds) and then lowered itself eventyally to 10L/100km. And same after every acceleration or overtake.
The engine even had many months of lacking power, it was like 300Nm/200-250hp down on power and struggled to accelerate at highway speeds in high gears (not like a W12 should be!).
Did a double oil change, and the problem started to disapperar slowly. Now entirely gone after a month of driving. Full power all the time, and all P00xx codes stay off. P0264 was just bad exhaust flap solenoids in the rear bumper, they were corroded and destroyed.
So I definetly recommend chaning the oil more often than the recommendation even if doing mostly highway.
A good indication is if the oil dipstick is 100% clear after oil change and startup. Mine was never. So first owner had skipped a bit on the oil changes (had done it every 30000km but almost only highway).
So CHANGE YOUR OIL FOLKS as often as you can afford! Much cheaper than replacing or repairing or diagnosing stuff!
Really appreciate this post. I have a W12 engine here as well and I want to overhaul it. Few issues:
- dirt wedged itself between piston and cylinder block - are there repair sleeves available? One sleeve seems damaged.
- I cannot find a spare part list, where can I find spare parts?
- I need a new set of piston rings, I do not have a source.
- The repair manual writes "do not disassemble engine block" - what the heck? I have rebuilt many engine in my life, this is the first time I see a manual like that (hugely disappointed)
Not sure what you are marking in the picture, or the reference to "dirt." What I see there just looks like typical head gasket remnants from the area surrounding each cylinder--often where the gasket material has a further crush seal type aspect to it.
Never heard of any rebuild parts availability for the W12 motor like rings or sleeves. Presumably you could get a piston set. If there is a ring set, it most likely comes from one of the piston companies, not from Audi.
Instead if you have block problems or even just to be more cost effective on overall parts, maybe just look into a reasonably priced motor from a wrecking yard in your vicinity (for shipping). I notice casually when I think about things like the old Top Gear coffee table made out of a block that the prices for even complete motors seems to have fallen a lot as these cars get retired or technically totaled by insurance co's. The coffee table will never happen, but both motors and blocks are around.
Still have not found any part numbers for piston rings or pistons.
Are there repair sleeves to fix the block?
I knew that there are little aftermarket parts for these motors but I did not think that the situation is that bad. Certainly would never buy anything VW after that experience and will not recommend it to anyone.
First, realize you own true exotic. And a close to 20 year old one at that. Fewer of these sold than R8's. Fewer of these sold than your typical Lambo for that matter.
As far as practical repair, maybe try a different angle. On block, try hand honing techniques? Depends on how deep the cuts are. If only one piston like the one in your picture, maybe a used alternate piston off EBay? Cross search both Audi W12 and VW W12. I see individual W12 pistons (with the connecting rod) for either left or right fitment (you have to match the "side") for at least the VW Phaeton 6.0 at $80. Needs to be the earlier 6.0 of course, not the later 6.3. Almost certainly not the Bentley 6.0 either, which was turbo'ed and probably a different compression ratio. Presumably use your existing con rod--you want the weight matched set.
Thanks for the reply. The pistons were the same in the W8 engine right?
What was the total production number of W12 engines?
Pistons are not an issue - can get these custom made. The block is the issue. There is no sleeve as far as I understand. I have honing tools, but if I hone the cylinder, I destroy the coating and the engine will not function reliably I guess.
There should be a repair sleeve available that can be machined in.
Expecting there to be a ready supply of repair kits/piston liners etc for the very rare W12 isn’t a realistic place to be starting. Audi built a solid motor that generally doesn’t fail, so there’s just no demand for aftermarket parts or repair kits. That’s not a mark on Audi per se, but damned if they do, damned if they don’t it would seem. Now if you had a BMW, ahem, for example, very different story.
As you happen to be unfortunate enough to have a W12 with internal FOD, then you don’t have many repair options. The bores can’t be refinished due to the coatings so your only option is to source a good replacement block, or like you say figure out a liner and consequent piston solution. But you’ll need to do the legwork to figure out what those parts are as to my knowledge there’s no pre-made kits or W12 specific parts out there for this purpose. But I’m sure there’s some generic ones that’ll do the trick.
In all honesty though, an entire used replacement motor is probably your best bet given the labor required to repair your current one and the difficultly/impossibility sourcing appropriate parts.
03-04-2023, 11:56 PM
FI: W12 2008 timing chain replacement
