D4
10-12-2009, 10:17 AM
#11
AudiWorld Super User
Yes, I've heard via the mag rumor-mill that it will be a little wider/longer. I hope the wheelbase remains as is, since my D3 LWB now just fits on the garage's hydrolic lift. Any longer from front to rear tire and it won't make it.
10-12-2009, 11:05 AM
#12
Audiworld Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
10-12-2009, 11:28 AM
#13
AudiWorld Super User
Yup- the c&d spy pics are virtually identical to the renderings. Note how the spy shots of the rear tail lights show an unfinished light assemby with cut-outs that match the tail lights on the rendered photos.
10-12-2009, 11:52 AM
#14
AudiWorld Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 772
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
not sure how best to post link, so here it is
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=8316
The Road & Track photos are the same as those of C&D. Perhaps I should have posted this link initially so that there would be no debate about whose spy shots and renderings were better. The R&T article may also be of interest. And FWIW, I did not hear about the lower and wider (not longer wheelbase) D4 from a car mag article or posting, but from my Audi sales rep. I know, I know, many think that they do not know any more than anyone else, but this particular rep is not given to idle chatter.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=8316
The Road & Track photos are the same as those of C&D. Perhaps I should have posted this link initially so that there would be no debate about whose spy shots and renderings were better. The R&T article may also be of interest. And FWIW, I did not hear about the lower and wider (not longer wheelbase) D4 from a car mag article or posting, but from my Audi sales rep. I know, I know, many think that they do not know any more than anyone else, but this particular rep is not given to idle chatter.
10-12-2009, 12:22 PM
#15
AudiWorld Super User
No, there was no debate on my part about who's pics are better. I was just showing how all are very similar to the rendered photos that were released earlier (actually back in September '08).
So no problem, all's good!
BTW, I've read in various places where speculation is for a slightly widened and longer vehicle. I also recall something about it also a bit lowered vs. the D3. But we'll all see pretty soon.
So no problem, all's good!
BTW, I've read in various places where speculation is for a slightly widened and longer vehicle. I also recall something about it also a bit lowered vs. the D3. But we'll all see pretty soon.
10-12-2009, 12:29 PM
#16
AudiWorld Super User
Just for fun, more rendered photos of...
...the side view (highlights the hood and trunk silhouette)and a couple of front end shots.
10-12-2009, 06:41 PM
#18
AudiWorld Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: South Florida
Posts: 1,080
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
10-12-2009, 08:13 PM
#19
AudiWorld Super User
Disagree mostly...
(though what we may really be debating isn't the turbo's, but the displacement.)
That just isn't going to work under tighter CAFE and CO2. Look at what Audi has done w/ the S4 and the A6 in the last year and you can already see the template. The D4 intro date is close enough in to those they logically would just design ahead, and they have to contend w/ tough Euro CO2 standards and taxes too. In plainer English, think downsizing, just like rolled through cars in the mid 70's with CAFE and higher fuel prices. This time you have C02 and carbon regulation to boot, and C02 regulation is already the law essentially in Europe, and coming soon to California and all the other states that follow CARB standards.
I think the turbo 4.2 idea is basically the next S8, if they can even get it that large (see below). I figure the V10 is likely a goner other than R8. You might see a turbo, but figure it is only going to net about the HP of the current V8 in the baseline car. Again, look at the very current S4 or A6 examples. Thus, if it were turbo'ed I would bet on more a 3.6 to 4.0 type motor. And, the 4.2 is really max'ed too as far as bore and stroke, and Audi will sometimes decrease the bores just to deal w/ the added stresses. 2.7T vs. 2.8, 2.1/2.2 vs. 2.22, 3.0 vs. 3.2, etc. Also, using the bimmer example, note its now a 4.0 that's blown, not a 4.4 (aka 4.5).
As far as driver perception, throw the newest 6HP30 in there w/ the .1 second shifts to start, or likely get it to a seven speed, and there's your real acceleration pick up. Again, look at the competitor spec sheets for what's happening there. Trannies often get overlooked in terms of their effect on acceleration and economy both. Likewise, the basic delta on acceleration from the D2 to the D3 was really much more getting to the six speed and away from the way lopsided highway gearing the D2 had to deal with for economy reasons. Figure same evolution from D3 to D4. Look at the ZF website; it's not hard to connect the dots since that's where Audi's bigger trannies all come from. Or, look at either the latesr Jag or Bimmer intro's, since the same core ZF trannies (ex AWD until recently) are used in those cars too.
Agreed on diesels though, and Audi is big there. I suppose they could bring in the 4.2TDI, though then they would be certifying a very low volume single car application. Maybe if they do it w/ the A6 too they could make the certification costs pencil.
That just isn't going to work under tighter CAFE and CO2. Look at what Audi has done w/ the S4 and the A6 in the last year and you can already see the template. The D4 intro date is close enough in to those they logically would just design ahead, and they have to contend w/ tough Euro CO2 standards and taxes too. In plainer English, think downsizing, just like rolled through cars in the mid 70's with CAFE and higher fuel prices. This time you have C02 and carbon regulation to boot, and C02 regulation is already the law essentially in Europe, and coming soon to California and all the other states that follow CARB standards.
I think the turbo 4.2 idea is basically the next S8, if they can even get it that large (see below). I figure the V10 is likely a goner other than R8. You might see a turbo, but figure it is only going to net about the HP of the current V8 in the baseline car. Again, look at the very current S4 or A6 examples. Thus, if it were turbo'ed I would bet on more a 3.6 to 4.0 type motor. And, the 4.2 is really max'ed too as far as bore and stroke, and Audi will sometimes decrease the bores just to deal w/ the added stresses. 2.7T vs. 2.8, 2.1/2.2 vs. 2.22, 3.0 vs. 3.2, etc. Also, using the bimmer example, note its now a 4.0 that's blown, not a 4.4 (aka 4.5).
As far as driver perception, throw the newest 6HP30 in there w/ the .1 second shifts to start, or likely get it to a seven speed, and there's your real acceleration pick up. Again, look at the competitor spec sheets for what's happening there. Trannies often get overlooked in terms of their effect on acceleration and economy both. Likewise, the basic delta on acceleration from the D2 to the D3 was really much more getting to the six speed and away from the way lopsided highway gearing the D2 had to deal with for economy reasons. Figure same evolution from D3 to D4. Look at the ZF website; it's not hard to connect the dots since that's where Audi's bigger trannies all come from. Or, look at either the latesr Jag or Bimmer intro's, since the same core ZF trannies (ex AWD until recently) are used in those cars too.
Agreed on diesels though, and Audi is big there. I suppose they could bring in the 4.2TDI, though then they would be certifying a very low volume single car application. Maybe if they do it w/ the A6 too they could make the certification costs pencil.
Last edited by MP4.2+6.0; 10-12-2009 at 08:18 PM.
10-13-2009, 04:37 AM
#20
AudiWorld Super User
Hi there Ring...
One of the best features of the D3 A8 is that it has a great @ss. The rendering and some of the spy shots leave the impression that the design language of the A8 rear has been lost in translation. I will be very disappointed if it shows up with the surface of the trunk lid raised up as if the trunk needed additional volume.
Hope all is good, and hope your A8 still puts a smile on your face :^)