MP4.2+6.0

1. Having owned one, the 5HP24A was a lemon basically, at least until late 2000 builds. When it was in top shape, it shifted nicely. It operated near the top of its torque capacity in many of the Audi apps. But as noted, finicky valve body (coupled with a lot of crap in the fluid, presumably from faster internals wear), and that's just for starters. Then there was the whole clutch basket (fiasco), quietly revved by ZF along with a bunch of internals, the not infrequently failing torque converters, and the blah blah blah many other known issues. The older boards that used the 5 speed are full of how to fix, what broke, what's wrong type posts. Did my own valve body swap and later had it rebuilt along the way--early 2000, before the rev's ZF and Audi chose not to discuss in general. The checkered history is not the situation with the six speed in general.

2. ZF has separate fluids for the 5 and 6 speeds. Audi supplied fluid tracks the same way. There is some merging from the 6 to the 8's with the ZF sourced Lifeguard 8 fluid, but not back to the 5 speeds. Thus, I won't be using a 5 speed spec. fluid in any ZF6 or 8 I own. Nor am I particularly a believer or user in either one size fits all fluids when the manufacturer specs otherwise, nor in a hundred different ideas on wonder juices. These trannies, and the labor for any R&R let alone rebuild, are just too many $$$ to stray off the known spec. fluids.

3. IIRC, 5 speed and 6 speeds really aren't very close design wise. Sure they have parts with the same names and have inevitably similar designs common to any modern automatic. But, my net is I wouldn't take ZF 5 learning and just assume it applies. Frankly given #1, the less they connect to each other, the better by me and my experiences with them.

win72010

The valve body is the single most important and most complicated assemblies in any transmission REGARDING SHIFT CHARACTERISTICS. The pressure control valves are subject to falling out of tolerance because they are constantly in motion. There are many known problems with the 6HP26 valve body just look at the upgrade/updates that go into the valve body that RevMax sells. Also do some diligence into the SONNAX repair update kits. SO many known issues with this 6HP26 valve body. My personal problem with my D3 04 A8L was the common 1-2 clunk and harsh 2-1 shift at 114k miles. Now sifts flawlessly and because of the upgrades, I fully expect this 6HP26A tranmission to last well into the 200ks

PLEASE understand that I am not relying my experience with the 5HP24A in my D2s. The 6HP26A is a completely different animal! The reason for recommending the Valvoline MaxLife is VALVOLINE says they meet or exceed ZFs requirements. I am TOTALLY relying on the vast resources of a major manufacturer of SYNTHETIC FLUIDS. The 5HP24A original fills would not be synthetic! The original fill of the 6HP26A was a semi synthetic. ZF replaced the original semi synthetic fluid with a new FULL SYNTHETIC fluid and recommended some tweaks in the form of Mechatronic updates. Here is the RossTech info on my car:

Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 09E-927-156.lbl
Part No SW: 4E0 910 156 E HW: 09E 927 156 A
Component: AG6 09E 4,2L5V USA 0120
Revision: 00000001 Serial number: 0013434
Coding: 0000002
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 244CF1A4E77F4F38643

No fault code found.

I recommend the kit from BlauParts with RAVENOL fluid. The point is not to debate fluids.

I did say that that I was laughing at myself for using "cheep fluid from Walmart" no disrespect to Valvoline intended.

BerkNut

Thanks for all the great replies. Personally I'll leave the "what kind of oil to use question" off the table for the purpose of my transmission. I have a "do it once and do it right approach" to most things I take on, and I think every member of this board does too. Otherwise why would we be here, spending our time learning about these cars?

In my real life job (construction) I see people skimp on materials all the time but the cost for the labor is always the same. So they end up living with compromises, when for X% more they could have what they really wanted. Yet if they ever change their mind and decide for the better materials, nicer thing etc., the cost is no longer just X, its X + new labor + old material + old labor + time lost doing it wrong the first time. And honestly I see it all the time..

I really understand thealso want to save cash since my pockets are not as deep as I would like. That's why I'm here on this board and under my car saving the $$ I can when I can. But if the cost of the ZF recommended fluid is $20 and the alternative is $5, saving $15 per liter is not the biggest concern. Even the $150 or so savings is for the whole replacement is not worth the peace of mind of having done it right the first time..

Now back to my trans-
Thanks for the advice win72010, do you know if there is any way to test the valves before having them rebuilt? Are there any other symptoms I should be looking for? Have you had the software flash as detailed by the TSB?

What about my original notion of having the software flash from the dealer along with fluid change? AND if I do the fluid change to prep for the software flash, the TSB seems to recommend the upgraded fluid (8) and no one is even talking about that.

Finally, since I checked my trans fluid in the old school luddite way, I was thinking of starting over and checking again. warming to 40 deg and putting in gear before checking, as recommended by MP4.2+6.0. anyone have the proper technique to check it handy?

Again thx for all the help..

BerkNut

thanks for the quick reply,, ill look into those kits tonight..

mishar

Shift it to D and R, add ATF until it start to overflow, wait a bit and close it. Engine is running all the time.

BerkNut

Thx, Mishar.
Then that is my first step... Will do and report back. & congrats on the upgrade to Guru,, its well deserved!

win72010

First you should have access to a VAG or RossTech to pull info from the Mechatronic. This is attached to the valve body and if you decide to install a rebuild valve body, It should be protected like it is your first born son! LOL. It is part of the immobilizer system. Should you damage the Mechatronic, you can not buy a used Mechatronic without a DEALER ONLY immobilizer adaption. So add the cost of tow to local stealer and the mercy of their creative billing to the cost of your project. RevMax has a PDF that makes it simple. This should not be confused with resetting the adaption to zero out learned driver preferences or soft codeing.

So lets look at my Ross Tech readout.

Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 09E-927-156.lbl
Part No SW: 4E0 910 156 E HW: 09E 927 156 A
Component: AG6 09E 4,2L5V USA 0120
Revision: 00000001 Serial number: 0013434
Coding: 0000002
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 244CF1A4E77F4F38643

In this line:
Part No SW: 4E0 910 156 E HW: 09E 927 156 A

"4E0 910 156 E" is the software and original factoy revision would have been 0070(not visible). From the chart I would be able to conclude Transmission code "GQF" and that is confirmed by reading my green build tag on the transmission. ALWAYS confirm before trying to order parts.

Component: AG6 09E 4,2L5V USA "0120"

On this line the "update" revision of "0120" indicates the latest update. nothing for the "stealer to FLASH" You would hope that the proper "fluid flush" associated with this update was completed but certainly not a given.

The first revision is the original and the second is the latest.

A8 4.2
GCF or GNU
4E0910156
0070
4E0910156
0100

GQF
4E0910156E
0070
4E0910156E
0120

HHV
4E0910156S
0010
4E0910156S
0030

HKT or HZA
4E1910156E
0020
4E1910156E
0110
A8 W12
HLM
4E1910156J
0050
4E1910156J
0060

HKV or JBU
4E1910156G
0020
4E1910156G
0120

GUN
4E0910156T
0080
4E0910156T
0090

HKW
4E1910156H
0020
4E1910156H
0110

Also see SVM Action Code NA4E37AA01

win72010

Any one jumping in should read full thread for this to make sense

You have to place your faith in someone. The safest bet is ZF and the LifeGard line of fluids. Certainly the Ravenol fluids from BlauParts are a solid choice. Then Mobile One. I personally use the Valvoline MaxLife. So witch team of engineers you decide to trust is obviously debatable.

That said lets look at one of the basic functions of Transmission fluid.

HOLD CONTAMINATES IN SUSPENSION!

Yes the detergents in transmission fluid is by design holing parts of clutch and metal (measured in NM) and carrying them for a ride as the circulate throughout the transmission.

You could use the analogy of a sponge. The fluid can only hold so much before it drips. In this case settle on parts and in the bottom of the pan. Many metal particles will be collected by the magnets. Also know that only so much metal can be effectively held by the magnets than we have the "FLUID SCREEN" to catch some contamination. Notice how it is called "SCREEN" and not a "FILTER"

These contaminates will eventually clog your SOLENOIDS and change their flow characteristics. The first domino falls.

INCORRECT PRESSURE damages your transmission. Too high, too low and spikes.

Now factor in wear on valves in conjunction with VARNISH. Varnish is a by product of Fluid that is too "FULL OF CONTAMINATION"

I change my transmission fluid to LITERALLY REMOVE some of the contamination along with some fluid. I am not trying to test the upper limit of how much contamination my transmission can endure.

For less than $40 I can refresh approximately 50% of my total transmissions circulating fluid.

You can not test the "valves" to see if they are good. You must remove valve body to measure tolerances and use flow bench to test circuits etc.

After you are satisfied with your due diligence. JUST BUY A REBUILT VALVE BODY or HAVE YOURS REBUILT

Final thoughts. I bought my D3 04 A8L knowing that the 1-2 and 2-1 shift was not right. All other shifts were perfect. I found that the pan had several fasteners loose and dripping fluid. I called Valvoline and they confirmed that the MaxLife meets ZF and Audis specs. I properly filled the transmission and could not believe that it needed 2 QUARTS! Are you kidding not even a code in Ross Tech! CLEARLY the FLUID LEVEL is not as short term critical as many have believe. All other sifts were perfect even being down 2 quarts. If I was driving my car hard into corners and creating high lateral Gs, I am sure it would have shifted stupid. After the top off, I drove the car and if anything it was worse. I practically issued a brick into my shorts. What have I done? I did a drain and fill to prepare for my rebuilt valve body and just to see if it changed anything. As expected CHANGED NOTHING. By doing a drain and fill I did a "first flush" then when I changed the valve body an extra 10 quarts. Total of 18 quarts.

As part of the Flash update Audi uses 16+ liters of fluid.

If you don't want to cheep out on you materials you better plan on full flush.

You have to place your faith in someones engineering team. I have placed mine in Valvoline. I personally don't believe in "Magic Fluid"

Let us know on YOUR SOLUTION

MP4.2+6.0

Here is the TSB relating to the use of the blue fluid and the recoding: http://uberlame.com/a6_tsb/Transmiss...ween%203-4.pdf

If you read it, it is only relevant if as a starting point you have a "hoot" going into fourth gear. Your symptoms aren't applicable from your descriptions, hence no use of the bigger bucks blue fluid is called for. The same issue exists for BMWs and Jags that use the RWD version of the same tranny, and likewise they call for similar procedures.

Note that there is a later version of the TSB, discussed in this thread for example: https://www.audiworld.com/forums/sho...php?p=24260333 I couldn't pull it on line easily, but I recall finding it before. The changes are minor apparently.

Meanwhile, note from the TSB I linked directly you can find the service procedures for the tranny fluid change discussed directly by Audi technical folk, regardless of the fluid used. It also has the table with the software rev. levels if you decide to get it recoded anyway (some have done that if you search thru archives). With VAG COM you can read your tranny part # and software rev level and match it up to the table.