D3 Brake Upgrade Options - They're slim aren't they?
11-18-2023, 11:58 AM
#1
D3 Brake Upgrade Options - They're slim aren't they?
Hey all. I have a 2009 S8. I hate the brake feel on this car. I have several other cars utilizing the Brembo 6 piston calipers and they're all night and day compared to the S8. I see the carbon ceramic brake option is just using the standard 19Z caliper and that it fits over the stock 385mm rotors with some slight overlap towards the hub. I'm fine with that. The problem is: I can't find 19z calipers anywhere. 17z and 18z are everywhere but 19z's were apparently only used on a specific variation of the Cayenne (Turbo/ Turbo S with power pack) and the D3 S8 with carbon ceramic brakes. I don't know about the rest of you but I've literally never seen a carbon ceramic optioned D3 in the US. So I tried ebay.uk. No luck.
I'm kind of desperate here. I have the car apart but don't want to take it off the rack until it's done but I can't even come up with a set of calipers.
My backup plan is to retain the stock calipers and run some aggressive Hawk pads but I'd really just rather have a nicer caliper up front. I've read all the old brake posts here. Have there been newer developments in the last few years? Anyone have any luck running anything else? Anyone know where I can get a line on some 19Z calipers?
I'm kind of desperate here. I have the car apart but don't want to take it off the rack until it's done but I can't even come up with a set of calipers.
My backup plan is to retain the stock calipers and run some aggressive Hawk pads but I'd really just rather have a nicer caliper up front. I've read all the old brake posts here. Have there been newer developments in the last few years? Anyone have any luck running anything else? Anyone know where I can get a line on some 19Z calipers?
11-28-2023, 09:08 PM
#2
AudiWorld Member
I do find the Q7 calipers look great and are fixed setup. Unsure what size they are, but probably smaller than a stock S8 . I really wish they would have put fixed calipers on the A8 and S8
11-29-2023, 06:30 AM
#3
AudiWorld Wiseguy
CCB’s were not available in the US.
Although the primary purpose was for improved high speed autobahn braking performance. That’s not an environment relevant to the US unless you’re trying for a cannonball run or something.
You should look up Arne Toman and Doug Tabbut on YouTube as they made a couple of attempts with a D4 S8 and they upgraded the brakes on that. There’s at least one walkthrough of the mods made. Possibly on the VINwiki channel. See what they did as it’s likely compatible with the D3.
Although the primary purpose was for improved high speed autobahn braking performance. That’s not an environment relevant to the US unless you’re trying for a cannonball run or something.
You should look up Arne Toman and Doug Tabbut on YouTube as they made a couple of attempts with a D4 S8 and they upgraded the brakes on that. There’s at least one walkthrough of the mods made. Possibly on the VINwiki channel. See what they did as it’s likely compatible with the D3.
Last edited by dvs_dave; 11-29-2023 at 06:51 AM.
12-20-2023, 10:07 PM
#4
AudiWorld Super User
Hi--
Long time, no visit on this board. Thought I would check in to see current board content. Helping brother in law iron out some worn parts and thermostat on my old 2006 D3 W12.
This post is a definite corner case as OP suspects. I did cosmetic mods on my D3 W12, but there was really nothing remotely turn key performance wise as you say. By wild chance I have a used (and generally clean) set of the Euro calipers and a separate set of rotors for the CCB set up. I don't recognize the Z brembo models, but I did source them as bolt up for mine. A W12 project (identical D3 brakes to S8) I never got around to before buying D4 S8 and selling W12 to brother in law who couldn't afford that kind of upgrade. I would sell either or both offline, but don't frankly even want to engage unless a serious buyer who knows what he is doing on mods like this. My own info on it is now 7 or 8 years old. Also in storage, so hassle to pull out.
Per other reply, never sold in US, so had to be sourced--usually from wrecks--via Euro eBay's or similar sites. More likely eBay.de by the way than eBay.co.uk, but then the ads are auf Deutsch. FWIW, if you use eBay.co.uk, reset search zone to full EU and you will find more. In last 5 years a lot of the esoteric Audi stuff I find are in the Baltic states--whether because of money, or wrecking yards or where older luxury Audi's go, I'm not sure.
Yes, on a D3 the only real upgrade path was on 4.2 to move to the W12/S8 bigger rotors by changing the mount bracket in front, or similarly in back. For an S8/W12, all I ever figured out besides the CCB's was maybe the C6 RS6 (390's??). Good luck finding anything for those, and for C6 RS6 I was always suspicious there were hub offset issues that might bite on the caliper bolt up relative to rotor centerline. Gen 1 R8's also used same CCB's in front as D3 IIRC--they got them out of the late D3 parts bin as it were. Also used on Euro Phaeton W12's IIRC. Not remembering now which model donor I found/have (might have been the VW for calipers). The other stumper in here is between D3 and D4 and C6 and C7 they changed the center hub diameter from 57mm to 66+. I never ran it down, but suspect that may have affected being able to use rotors across those generations with the hub change. Too bad, because the D4 era quasi two piece stock 400 mm rotors (coupled with the 6 piston Brembos) make my D4 S8 a lot stronger brake wise, even at its higher HP.
If you went full CCB, figure those pads would need to come from Europe. For fitting conventional brake pads in the calipers, not something I looked into, but obviously the back pad plate needs to be correct and you would presumably want to keep the wear sensors functional. As Dave said, CCB's really aren't needed in 99% of US settings. I notice on newest 2024 Audi RS's (RSQ8, RS6, etc. Audi seems to be deemphasizing or removing the already pricy option again. For US purposes, probably besides the typical full boat Brembo calipers, the other real world impacts are on unsprung weight. The 40lb boat anchor rotors on the D3 W12/S8 are ridiculous, and the stock steel brake caliper bracket is heavy too. The Brembo's stream line out the caliper bracket weight in favor of the rest of their beefiness and piston count, and even the quasi two piece rotors in 400's are down about 5 pounds. There are D4 (or C7) 380s BTW in those quasi two piece factory rotors, but you would have to work through the center hub question and be sure the rotor center line is still the same.
If you do go front CCB by chance, you also reset the D3 ABS controller to that factory choice via VCDS or equivalent. It is supposed to cause the front calipers to softly auto-wipe every couple of minutes to deal with the slippery effect of rain/water on cold CCB rotors.
Long time, no visit on this board. Thought I would check in to see current board content. Helping brother in law iron out some worn parts and thermostat on my old 2006 D3 W12.
This post is a definite corner case as OP suspects. I did cosmetic mods on my D3 W12, but there was really nothing remotely turn key performance wise as you say. By wild chance I have a used (and generally clean) set of the Euro calipers and a separate set of rotors for the CCB set up. I don't recognize the Z brembo models, but I did source them as bolt up for mine. A W12 project (identical D3 brakes to S8) I never got around to before buying D4 S8 and selling W12 to brother in law who couldn't afford that kind of upgrade. I would sell either or both offline, but don't frankly even want to engage unless a serious buyer who knows what he is doing on mods like this. My own info on it is now 7 or 8 years old. Also in storage, so hassle to pull out.
Per other reply, never sold in US, so had to be sourced--usually from wrecks--via Euro eBay's or similar sites. More likely eBay.de by the way than eBay.co.uk, but then the ads are auf Deutsch. FWIW, if you use eBay.co.uk, reset search zone to full EU and you will find more. In last 5 years a lot of the esoteric Audi stuff I find are in the Baltic states--whether because of money, or wrecking yards or where older luxury Audi's go, I'm not sure.
Yes, on a D3 the only real upgrade path was on 4.2 to move to the W12/S8 bigger rotors by changing the mount bracket in front, or similarly in back. For an S8/W12, all I ever figured out besides the CCB's was maybe the C6 RS6 (390's??). Good luck finding anything for those, and for C6 RS6 I was always suspicious there were hub offset issues that might bite on the caliper bolt up relative to rotor centerline. Gen 1 R8's also used same CCB's in front as D3 IIRC--they got them out of the late D3 parts bin as it were. Also used on Euro Phaeton W12's IIRC. Not remembering now which model donor I found/have (might have been the VW for calipers). The other stumper in here is between D3 and D4 and C6 and C7 they changed the center hub diameter from 57mm to 66+. I never ran it down, but suspect that may have affected being able to use rotors across those generations with the hub change. Too bad, because the D4 era quasi two piece stock 400 mm rotors (coupled with the 6 piston Brembos) make my D4 S8 a lot stronger brake wise, even at its higher HP.
If you went full CCB, figure those pads would need to come from Europe. For fitting conventional brake pads in the calipers, not something I looked into, but obviously the back pad plate needs to be correct and you would presumably want to keep the wear sensors functional. As Dave said, CCB's really aren't needed in 99% of US settings. I notice on newest 2024 Audi RS's (RSQ8, RS6, etc. Audi seems to be deemphasizing or removing the already pricy option again. For US purposes, probably besides the typical full boat Brembo calipers, the other real world impacts are on unsprung weight. The 40lb boat anchor rotors on the D3 W12/S8 are ridiculous, and the stock steel brake caliper bracket is heavy too. The Brembo's stream line out the caliper bracket weight in favor of the rest of their beefiness and piston count, and even the quasi two piece rotors in 400's are down about 5 pounds. There are D4 (or C7) 380s BTW in those quasi two piece factory rotors, but you would have to work through the center hub question and be sure the rotor center line is still the same.
If you do go front CCB by chance, you also reset the D3 ABS controller to that factory choice via VCDS or equivalent. It is supposed to cause the front calipers to softly auto-wipe every couple of minutes to deal with the slippery effect of rain/water on cold CCB rotors.
Last edited by MP4.2+6.0; 12-20-2023 at 10:25 PM.
12-25-2023, 03:39 PM
#5
Thanks for the heads up. I don't think I'll go the full rotor conversion since older carbon ceramic brakes aren't exactly renowned for their performance virtues around town. It appears the 19Z calipers from the CCB brakes are a bolt on. So I suppose I'll just hang tight until I can find some of those and then grab a set of the JHM rotors to reduce rotating mass.
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