X-Post from Biturbos-4 mailer: What to look for when buying an older 2.7t (or any A4 or A6 really)
03-07-2006, 10:35 AM
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X-Post from Biturbos-4 mailer: What to look for when buying an older 2.7t (or any A4 or A6 really)
Really good summary of info here from "Keman" in response to a Q from a new buyer of an older S4. Most if not all applies to a C5 A6 - especially with the 2.7t motor...
Worth a bookmark!
===============
i'm one of the lists resident (but somewhat dorment) ex audi techs, and I
used to have an '01 S4 Avant. I would recommend you check the following:
100k issues or points of notice:
timing belt (and water pump) .. if it's not done now, do it. While I've seen
them go 130k, I would do them every 60-80k miles. If it does slip or break,
you'll experience the pain of replacing a lot of intake valves on top of
pulling the engine and turbos, as that's the only way to get the heads off.
If noone can tell you if it's been done or not, peer at the belt by prying
back the timing belt cover a few mm and look at the belt with a flashlight.
If it looks fresh and new and black, it's new. If it looks worn and old,
well.. it's not.
coolant: Right now it should be fresh and bright pink, not brownish or
orangish. Don't base it off the coolant overflow bottle, as it will be
somewhat discolored by now. But, those are only $28 at the dealer and I
recommend replacing them as they come with a new cap, if/when you do the
coolant flush. It's long life coolant, but 100k miles is a long time and
that's when it should be flushed. The only drain is the block drain, located
between the trans and engine directly underneith looking straight up through
the bellhousing. It's an 8mm green hex key bolt, it will be very tight and
need an 8mm hex driver and breaker bar, and needs a new O-ring (available at
the dealer) once removed. You need a vacuum coolant filler to put coolant
into these engines properly, so either borrow one or pay the dealer to do
this job for you.
Coolant leaks: Inspect for any pink crustys. Particulary look into the V of
the engine from above once the middle engine dress cover is removed, peering
in at a 45 degree angle through the small gap below the throttle body. If
you see any pink in there, your afterrun pump or coolant hardline is
leaking. Also look in back of the engine on the passenger side. Any pink
crustys = leak.
Battery: If it looks old and original, the cells probably need topping off
with distilled water. It's a maintanence item but few actually know that
it's supposed to be topped off regularly. Just twist each cell cover off and
there's a little MIN/MAX bar on each one.
Diverter valves: While looking for coolant leaks, start the engine up and
reach normal operating temperature. Put your hand on the two black roundish
looking valves, roughly 3" in diameter that point towards the throttle body.
There will be small vacuum lines running to each. If you feel either
"vibrating" or making fluttering or honking noises at idle, it might be
shot. To look further, if you pinch off one of the vacuum lines with a pair
of pliars and it goes away, that valve is shot. They die often, aftermarkets
that don't break (they use a piston instead of a diaphram) are available for
a couple hundred bucks. Highly recommended as I ate through about 4 sets of
the updated TT ones by 96k miles. They decrease strain on the turbos when
you lift off the throttle, so.. when they're dead, well... there's more
strain = wear and tear.
Oil leaks: Check the rear passenger and front drivers side of the V of the
engine. Any wetness would be the legendary timing chain tensioner gaskets.
They'll almost never leak so bad as to create a steady drip of oil, but they
will start to leak and get wetter and wetter, making some mess as mileage
goes up. These can be spendy to have replaced, with dealers charging around
8 hours of labor for both sides. If you've not done it before, I wouldn't
try it yourself as you can drop tiny bits into the engine. I used to use a
small magnet to catch them. Valve covers- these start getting wet at 100k
miles. Loosening all the 10mm nuts that hold them on and then re-torquing to
115 INCH/lbs working from the center nut outwards in a clockwise pattern,
slowly but surely, they may stop leaking forever. Or you can just change
them.
Spark plugs: Even though they're double platinum the engine still eats them
like candy. Misfire codes are a telltail sign. I'd swap them every 25k miles
if you like to get on it.
Oil: 5W-40 synthetic is a good idea. 0W-40 German Castrol is nice too, 0W-30
works alright. Basically, anything synthetic is great for this engine, and
non synthetic is bad. You can tell what it's had all it's life by looking at
the oil fill cap. Take it off and look inside. If it's shiny metal, it's had
synthetic all it's life. If it's crusty and caked and brown, it's not. The
more gelatinous cake under the cap, the less synthetic oil it's seen in it's
life.
Interior: The dot matrix display is a common failure. New gauge clusters
have bugfixed designs that don't drop dots or lines (usually) but fetch a
high price, $750 or so (remanufactured, which is good cuz it's bugfixed).
I'm a big fan of Stabilant 22 and CAIG's DeOxit D5, but I've not read of a
success using it on this problem. It does resemble a connection type of
problem between the display and the driver board, as mine used to drop a
line but only when it was really cold out. The gauge cluster comes out
without touching the rest of the dashboard, it's held in with a couple of
torx screws accessable by popping the top steering wheel trim off. You'll
have to reach in behind once the cluster is out a few inches and pop the
spring-cam-lock connectors (all three) on the back kind of blind to get it
all the way out.
Speakers: If they rattle with bass, they're probably in need of replacement.
The Bose Symphony audi system doesn't take kindly to aftermarket
replacements (it ends up sounding like crap) and the factory replacements
are around $90 each. In a sedan, the rear speakers are accessed from above,
not below. Kind of a pain. The door panels are much easier to remove.
Stereo: If it changes channels on you, it's posessed. They do that
sometimes. If it stops working, it'll need replacement. They've gotten MUCH
cheaper last I checked. < $200 at the dealer now for a reman if you provide
your old one as the core.
Rear diff: Sometimes the seals on the output shafts get a little wet.
Wheel bearings: They'll be either freshly replaced, or needing it soon. They
like to abandon ship at 100k miles. But they do so rather gracefully, giving
you 10-15k miles of warning with a steady increase in rattling noise.
O2 sensors: These don't like to live forever. There are 4. The rear 2 are
easy. The front 2 ... well. Only easy if you've done them before.
Coolant temp sensor: These get flakey. They're easy, check out audiworld for
instructions. If the temp display is anything but in the middle at normal
operating temps, the sensor is toast.
Suspension arms: If it clunks over bumps, it'll need them. I recommend the
VW Passat suspension arm kit from the dealer, it's 4 arms for the price of 1
audi one, and it's the identical part in every way shape and form, including
the part #. These can be installed without an alignment of any sort.
If well taken care of, 5k synthetic oil changes religiously, allowed to warm
up (one notch up on the oil temp gauge) before you get into the boost [which
can take an agonizingly long time], and cooled down (go slow the last couple
of miles) when hot, the turbos will last 200k miles. If oil changes get
skipped, you like to get into the boost while backing out of your driveway
on wintery mornings, and you drive around in 100 degree heat like a madman
and arrive at your destination and flick the key off and walk away
immediately, the turbos won't make it to that point.
There are failures unfortunately, and when they do fail it's talked about
very vocally because the price is extreme: $4-5k to have them replaced. They
must be done by the pair. If you chip it, it's going to add another factor
to this equation (heat) and make it more likely to fail (but not necessarily
so with much care and dilligence).
I liked to clean my climate control buttons if they got sticky with 70%
isopropyl alcohol. I'd just spray it on and wipe it off with a cotton cloth
a minute later, padding gently to soak it up. Repeat until the button frees
itself. Someone else mentioned just water, which works too but sometimes
takes a bit too long to dry and also might not attack the dried out
Coca-Cola sufficiently well.
That about sums it up for my sunday morning. Hehehe. They're great cars, I
miss mine still and I've got an '05 S4 Avant. I had mine for 96k miles
before FOOLISHLY selling it in prestine condition.
Keman
Worth a bookmark!
===============
i'm one of the lists resident (but somewhat dorment) ex audi techs, and I
used to have an '01 S4 Avant. I would recommend you check the following:
100k issues or points of notice:
timing belt (and water pump) .. if it's not done now, do it. While I've seen
them go 130k, I would do them every 60-80k miles. If it does slip or break,
you'll experience the pain of replacing a lot of intake valves on top of
pulling the engine and turbos, as that's the only way to get the heads off.
If noone can tell you if it's been done or not, peer at the belt by prying
back the timing belt cover a few mm and look at the belt with a flashlight.
If it looks fresh and new and black, it's new. If it looks worn and old,
well.. it's not.
coolant: Right now it should be fresh and bright pink, not brownish or
orangish. Don't base it off the coolant overflow bottle, as it will be
somewhat discolored by now. But, those are only $28 at the dealer and I
recommend replacing them as they come with a new cap, if/when you do the
coolant flush. It's long life coolant, but 100k miles is a long time and
that's when it should be flushed. The only drain is the block drain, located
between the trans and engine directly underneith looking straight up through
the bellhousing. It's an 8mm green hex key bolt, it will be very tight and
need an 8mm hex driver and breaker bar, and needs a new O-ring (available at
the dealer) once removed. You need a vacuum coolant filler to put coolant
into these engines properly, so either borrow one or pay the dealer to do
this job for you.
Coolant leaks: Inspect for any pink crustys. Particulary look into the V of
the engine from above once the middle engine dress cover is removed, peering
in at a 45 degree angle through the small gap below the throttle body. If
you see any pink in there, your afterrun pump or coolant hardline is
leaking. Also look in back of the engine on the passenger side. Any pink
crustys = leak.
Battery: If it looks old and original, the cells probably need topping off
with distilled water. It's a maintanence item but few actually know that
it's supposed to be topped off regularly. Just twist each cell cover off and
there's a little MIN/MAX bar on each one.
Diverter valves: While looking for coolant leaks, start the engine up and
reach normal operating temperature. Put your hand on the two black roundish
looking valves, roughly 3" in diameter that point towards the throttle body.
There will be small vacuum lines running to each. If you feel either
"vibrating" or making fluttering or honking noises at idle, it might be
shot. To look further, if you pinch off one of the vacuum lines with a pair
of pliars and it goes away, that valve is shot. They die often, aftermarkets
that don't break (they use a piston instead of a diaphram) are available for
a couple hundred bucks. Highly recommended as I ate through about 4 sets of
the updated TT ones by 96k miles. They decrease strain on the turbos when
you lift off the throttle, so.. when they're dead, well... there's more
strain = wear and tear.
Oil leaks: Check the rear passenger and front drivers side of the V of the
engine. Any wetness would be the legendary timing chain tensioner gaskets.
They'll almost never leak so bad as to create a steady drip of oil, but they
will start to leak and get wetter and wetter, making some mess as mileage
goes up. These can be spendy to have replaced, with dealers charging around
8 hours of labor for both sides. If you've not done it before, I wouldn't
try it yourself as you can drop tiny bits into the engine. I used to use a
small magnet to catch them. Valve covers- these start getting wet at 100k
miles. Loosening all the 10mm nuts that hold them on and then re-torquing to
115 INCH/lbs working from the center nut outwards in a clockwise pattern,
slowly but surely, they may stop leaking forever. Or you can just change
them.
Spark plugs: Even though they're double platinum the engine still eats them
like candy. Misfire codes are a telltail sign. I'd swap them every 25k miles
if you like to get on it.
Oil: 5W-40 synthetic is a good idea. 0W-40 German Castrol is nice too, 0W-30
works alright. Basically, anything synthetic is great for this engine, and
non synthetic is bad. You can tell what it's had all it's life by looking at
the oil fill cap. Take it off and look inside. If it's shiny metal, it's had
synthetic all it's life. If it's crusty and caked and brown, it's not. The
more gelatinous cake under the cap, the less synthetic oil it's seen in it's
life.
Interior: The dot matrix display is a common failure. New gauge clusters
have bugfixed designs that don't drop dots or lines (usually) but fetch a
high price, $750 or so (remanufactured, which is good cuz it's bugfixed).
I'm a big fan of Stabilant 22 and CAIG's DeOxit D5, but I've not read of a
success using it on this problem. It does resemble a connection type of
problem between the display and the driver board, as mine used to drop a
line but only when it was really cold out. The gauge cluster comes out
without touching the rest of the dashboard, it's held in with a couple of
torx screws accessable by popping the top steering wheel trim off. You'll
have to reach in behind once the cluster is out a few inches and pop the
spring-cam-lock connectors (all three) on the back kind of blind to get it
all the way out.
Speakers: If they rattle with bass, they're probably in need of replacement.
The Bose Symphony audi system doesn't take kindly to aftermarket
replacements (it ends up sounding like crap) and the factory replacements
are around $90 each. In a sedan, the rear speakers are accessed from above,
not below. Kind of a pain. The door panels are much easier to remove.
Stereo: If it changes channels on you, it's posessed. They do that
sometimes. If it stops working, it'll need replacement. They've gotten MUCH
cheaper last I checked. < $200 at the dealer now for a reman if you provide
your old one as the core.
Rear diff: Sometimes the seals on the output shafts get a little wet.
Wheel bearings: They'll be either freshly replaced, or needing it soon. They
like to abandon ship at 100k miles. But they do so rather gracefully, giving
you 10-15k miles of warning with a steady increase in rattling noise.
O2 sensors: These don't like to live forever. There are 4. The rear 2 are
easy. The front 2 ... well. Only easy if you've done them before.
Coolant temp sensor: These get flakey. They're easy, check out audiworld for
instructions. If the temp display is anything but in the middle at normal
operating temps, the sensor is toast.
Suspension arms: If it clunks over bumps, it'll need them. I recommend the
VW Passat suspension arm kit from the dealer, it's 4 arms for the price of 1
audi one, and it's the identical part in every way shape and form, including
the part #. These can be installed without an alignment of any sort.
If well taken care of, 5k synthetic oil changes religiously, allowed to warm
up (one notch up on the oil temp gauge) before you get into the boost [which
can take an agonizingly long time], and cooled down (go slow the last couple
of miles) when hot, the turbos will last 200k miles. If oil changes get
skipped, you like to get into the boost while backing out of your driveway
on wintery mornings, and you drive around in 100 degree heat like a madman
and arrive at your destination and flick the key off and walk away
immediately, the turbos won't make it to that point.
There are failures unfortunately, and when they do fail it's talked about
very vocally because the price is extreme: $4-5k to have them replaced. They
must be done by the pair. If you chip it, it's going to add another factor
to this equation (heat) and make it more likely to fail (but not necessarily
so with much care and dilligence).
I liked to clean my climate control buttons if they got sticky with 70%
isopropyl alcohol. I'd just spray it on and wipe it off with a cotton cloth
a minute later, padding gently to soak it up. Repeat until the button frees
itself. Someone else mentioned just water, which works too but sometimes
takes a bit too long to dry and also might not attack the dried out
Coca-Cola sufficiently well.
That about sums it up for my sunday morning. Hehehe. They're great cars, I
miss mine still and I've got an '05 S4 Avant. I had mine for 96k miles
before FOOLISHLY selling it in prestine condition.
Keman
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