H-Sport A6 rear sway bar mounting issues <long, hopefully helpful>
06-16-2003, 10:58 AM
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H-Sport A6 rear sway bar mounting issues <long, hopefully helpful>
This is also a reply to the much longer thread about 2/3 page further down below.
Looking at the Audi A6 chassis, the rear mount is in a vertical plane with the stress spread vertically though the sheet metal of the sub frame. That is a good design layout. The question of the long thread is, 'Are the materials used strong enough?'.
Speaking with a contact at Neuspeed, they did have an issue with flex of the rear sub frame sheet metal mount area on the A4. A year or so went by and they got one or two reports of stress cracks at the bolt holes out of the first ~700 bars sold. This prompted them to make a small reinforcing plate to spread the load out over the area in question. End of problem.
In defense of H-Sport bar kit, it took a while for Neuspeed to realize that there was in issue and offer a plate similar to what is on the front of the H-Sport mount bracket.
I have spoken to H-Sport this morning and made them aware of the issue Neuspeed had found from field reports. They are immediately going to take this issue under review!
I am sure they will make a response soon to this issue. We do need to give them time, however. Stress cracks are not going to form in the first two months of use, and probably not in the first year, unless you are just driving nuts all the time (You know who your are!)
In the mean time, my suggestion would be that owners should use the "soft" or outer most bolt hole on the bar, and simply avoid hard cornering. If you have a good mechanic, or for those who are handy and want to do something right away, it would be easy to fabricate a re-enforcing plate from a strip of 1/8 plate steel. Measure the bolt hole centers. Cut a two plate maybe 25% larger than the area of the bracket shape. Bolt them together and grid to fit. Use a large washer on the bolt coming through from the back and place the plate between the bracket and the sub frame. The bolts may even be long enough that 4 new longer bolts are not needed.
I do not have a crystal ball as to the immediate "danger", but I hope these observations well help balance the perceived risk. A responsible vendor, as I believe H-Sport to be, and we, their customers, must meet halfway in this type of situation, because in my experience a lot of verbal jumping up and down will not resolve the issue any quicker.....
I would be comfortable with the H-Sport bar on the car for a bit. Fatigue cracks are not problem that will appear over night and the fix is quite easy if we all just keep a cool head about it.
==m==
Mike
Looking at the Audi A6 chassis, the rear mount is in a vertical plane with the stress spread vertically though the sheet metal of the sub frame. That is a good design layout. The question of the long thread is, 'Are the materials used strong enough?'.
Speaking with a contact at Neuspeed, they did have an issue with flex of the rear sub frame sheet metal mount area on the A4. A year or so went by and they got one or two reports of stress cracks at the bolt holes out of the first ~700 bars sold. This prompted them to make a small reinforcing plate to spread the load out over the area in question. End of problem.
In defense of H-Sport bar kit, it took a while for Neuspeed to realize that there was in issue and offer a plate similar to what is on the front of the H-Sport mount bracket.
I have spoken to H-Sport this morning and made them aware of the issue Neuspeed had found from field reports. They are immediately going to take this issue under review!
I am sure they will make a response soon to this issue. We do need to give them time, however. Stress cracks are not going to form in the first two months of use, and probably not in the first year, unless you are just driving nuts all the time (You know who your are!)
In the mean time, my suggestion would be that owners should use the "soft" or outer most bolt hole on the bar, and simply avoid hard cornering. If you have a good mechanic, or for those who are handy and want to do something right away, it would be easy to fabricate a re-enforcing plate from a strip of 1/8 plate steel. Measure the bolt hole centers. Cut a two plate maybe 25% larger than the area of the bracket shape. Bolt them together and grid to fit. Use a large washer on the bolt coming through from the back and place the plate between the bracket and the sub frame. The bolts may even be long enough that 4 new longer bolts are not needed.
I do not have a crystal ball as to the immediate "danger", but I hope these observations well help balance the perceived risk. A responsible vendor, as I believe H-Sport to be, and we, their customers, must meet halfway in this type of situation, because in my experience a lot of verbal jumping up and down will not resolve the issue any quicker.....
I would be comfortable with the H-Sport bar on the car for a bit. Fatigue cracks are not problem that will appear over night and the fix is quite easy if we all just keep a cool head about it.
==m==
Mike
06-16-2003, 11:49 AM
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In my conversation with H-Sport....
Jon,
We discussed exactly this issue. My suggestion was to get a an early A4 and an early A6 to see if the sheet might be a couple mm thicker. The only problem with this approach is that these types of changes can be mid-model as the 2002 'facelift' A6 proves, so we have to find early production run cars to cover everyone.
I remember the original BMW 7 series would crack the floor pan where the rear sub-frame was attached along about 70-100,000 miles. I must have welded up a dozen of them myself in just a couple years. So, even the factory does not always have it right.
In the quest for lightness and the ever more complex suspension on modern cars, I have noted that sub frames often work very well in supporting the car and the intended motion of the suspension, BUT they are very, very fragile when it comes to lateral hits or particularly curb hits from backing up. My wife (bless her anyway!) parks and reverses by brail. I am constantly checking the feel of the steering wheel and eyeballing the rear toe setting. Over the years I have had to get our cars aligned every so often when I detect toe-in from bending the suspension in this manner. No defense like a good offense!
I am not surprised to learn that there may be an issue with the rear sub frame not taking larger anti-roll bar loads. It is not an uncommon problem. Let's all give H-Sport a few weeks to let everyone know what they find out. They have a test car with a lot of miles on it already. Unfortunately, with this type of issue a test car may not show any problem! I think it is cool at Audi World readers were able to bring this issue up. I just confirmed it with a Neuspeed VP, and passed it on to H-Sport.
==m==
We discussed exactly this issue. My suggestion was to get a an early A4 and an early A6 to see if the sheet might be a couple mm thicker. The only problem with this approach is that these types of changes can be mid-model as the 2002 'facelift' A6 proves, so we have to find early production run cars to cover everyone.
I remember the original BMW 7 series would crack the floor pan where the rear sub-frame was attached along about 70-100,000 miles. I must have welded up a dozen of them myself in just a couple years. So, even the factory does not always have it right.
In the quest for lightness and the ever more complex suspension on modern cars, I have noted that sub frames often work very well in supporting the car and the intended motion of the suspension, BUT they are very, very fragile when it comes to lateral hits or particularly curb hits from backing up. My wife (bless her anyway!) parks and reverses by brail. I am constantly checking the feel of the steering wheel and eyeballing the rear toe setting. Over the years I have had to get our cars aligned every so often when I detect toe-in from bending the suspension in this manner. No defense like a good offense!
I am not surprised to learn that there may be an issue with the rear sub frame not taking larger anti-roll bar loads. It is not an uncommon problem. Let's all give H-Sport a few weeks to let everyone know what they find out. They have a test car with a lot of miles on it already. Unfortunately, with this type of issue a test car may not show any problem! I think it is cool at Audi World readers were able to bring this issue up. I just confirmed it with a Neuspeed VP, and passed it on to H-Sport.
==m==
