captainbilly

Even copper plumbing fittings are made from electro deposited copper, making it virtually 100% pure copper. Wire/cable is at least as pure, if you get it from any source that I am familiar with. I have seen $1000 RCA connector cables with gold conductors, that's right solid gold, but I can't imagine what good it does for the sound or video quality. I think Romex would make as good a speaker wire as Monster Cable and it costs about 1/25th as much. With the shift to digital signals, whether by coax, twisted pair or fiber optic cable, the quality of the cable becomes even less significant. If the signal gets through at all then the sound or video will be as good as it possibly can be.

As for Mobil 1, I don't know if it is as good as it used to be but I would be very interested in someone steering me to some actual data on the subject.

itacud

I think the point with the Monster Cable analogy is to say that while they may have become very popular, and sell a whole lot now, they're no longer very high end. Much better than radio shack, but far from Transparent Audio, for example...

That said, I have no idea how the oils compare! =)

itacud

Poor digital interconnect has significant transmission line ground bounce, leading to jitter. Copper cable conductivity is not uniform, and neither is the noise picked up or shielded from, by a cable. It's all extremely audible, and often measureable.

I wouldna thunk it till I tried it. I'm not suggesting you do try, as it's an expensive path to go down!

Stoney

They often refuse to listen to differences, often will not set up comparison tests that are capable of revealing differences, and often use comparison methods and statistical analyses that don't have sufficient power to disprove a null hypothesis.

But, those who combine a scientific experimental approach (not so much engineering craftsman approach) with extensive listening tests, properly conducted (there's the difficult part... and a very long story about which I have written at length), will find that there are very real differences in cables, and very real physical phenomena that seem to cause them.

There are over a dozen design issues for cables that aren't apparent in the simplistic view. A few: grain size and boundaries; metal plating incompatibilities leading to changing properties with time; waveguide nature (transmission line) of cables, skin depth, dispersion, dielectric absorption, dielectric property drift (age, breakin), triboelectric effect, mechanical stability and "settling", RF noise susceptibility/transmission and ground loops (both of which are affected by grounding of shields at one end versus the other, leading to "directional" cable designs), capacitance per unit length, inductance, surface phenomena on connectors, choice of solder, and more (not to mention basic flexibility, reliability, usability, etc).

I've heard these things, and tried tons of cables. No two sound the same, and some designs sound different depending on the electronics used.

Digital cables have all these phenomena, but in spades due to the high frequency. Reclocking can remove virtually all bit errors but the timing errors do lead to jitter which translates into real and measurable analog ouput error. RF issues are particularly a problem with digital cables, impacting other parts of the system.

(example of a gross effect: I have a portable CD player hooked to my office Monsoon 1000 sound system, also hooked to a computer. If I simply hold my hand an inch above the portable player, it will start to skip, mute, and will stop playing and return to the start of the disk. By adding an RF choke on the analog line from the computer to the speaker system amp, this is resolved. Just one of many gross problems that affect such systems... the more subtle ones creep into the analog output and cause detectable sonic problems in high-end playback.)

I stick with Cardas cable due to great experiences, especially with recent designs, and an acquaintance with George Cardas since about 1988. I've been to his house and helped him improve his turntable setup with very audible results. I also been to the home of Noel Lee of Monster, and many ex-employees, plus met many of the other cable manufacturers, and folks like John Curl who published the first papers about nonlinear effects in dielectric, and is famous as a high-end engineer.

My work history is in nonlinear acoustics, so this stuff that seems hokus pokus doesn't put me off... there are plausible (if not proven) hypotheses for what we observe. The hardest trick is designing cost-effective solutions... you have to understand the phenomena pretty well (or luck upon a good combo, or both!).

2.7tDallas

Damn engineers!!!

Jon C

I really should just type the standard answer up to save my fingers from retyping.

I, too, am a little less confident in Mobil 1 these days as they change formulations. I'm using Amsoil (forget exactly which one, the standard (non racing) 20W-50 or 10W30 in my '73 911. I change oil once a year, or longer depending on the oil analysis results.

I've also use Red Line at times in the Audis & the M-B C280 I had.

I'm using Mobil 1 10W30 in my wife's '98 Passat 1.8T (76k on it now), changing every 5k/6 mo. I may switch to Amsoil or Red Line there, too. It's under a VW 'certified' used car warranty til November, and an extended svc. contract for another year+ and 15k, so as long as it is I don't think I want to go to annual changes with Amsoil, so as not to hassle with the service contract company if we have a problem. I know that's fine, they may not.

My friend & Porsche tech told me that even his Mobil 1 factory rep conceded that, although Mobil 1 is very good, Amsoil is made from a different base stock that does resist TBN degradation (acidity) for extended drain intervals better than Mobil 1 (Red Line's own data makes similar claims). That's why I'm OK w/ Mobil 1 for 6 month intervals but not longer (though my oil analysis has shown very little degradation of Mobil 1 in my A6 in 6 mo./7,500 miles). His oil analysis with Amsoil racing formula enabled him to do 3 oil changes in 2 years in his racing 911, a car that runs only on the track, flat out all the time. That's remarkable. Similar tests on my '73 911 show that with the standard Amsoil, it's fine after 1 year (only about 2,000 miles a year), it's been good for 12-18 months between changes.

best,
Jon

Bollinger

I happen to come from the other side though, I am one of those bigots. But dealing with the EEs I deal with every day I have come to the same conclusion you have. We have sat around and had discussions about Monster Cable and other companies of that sort.

Actually, most of our discussions are about a different maker of premium cables. This is because one of the members of our team used to work at a maker of premium cables, a maker from the Bay Area that Stoney may be familiar with.

2.7tDallas

My friend Robin was an EE, got tired of it and now is an attorney! Interesting combo!!

FlyBry2.7T

seperate facility/labratory that Exxon has absoutely nothing to do with, as part of the merger. Also, Mobil 1 very recently came out with new packaging & advertising regarding all new blends and patents in the ever increasing market of synthetic oils. IMHO, I feel it is one of the best synthetics available, especially if you believe in molybdenum, as it has the highest amount.

FlyBry2.7T

Re: living off myth...not coording to some published data, ask any competent Harley owner.