Just some mindless ramblings concerning power and brakes
12-05-2001, 02:57 PM
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Craggy Old Man
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Just some mindless ramblings concerning power and brakes
Always thought the stock 2.7T brakes were very good and more than adequate for the car as it stands. Then,,
what about if you like to go to a quattro event to meet other Audi owners and have fun learning the dynamics of the car and hopefully retain some knowledge to help you in street situations. The stock brakes hold up fairly well and as long as the the track is not tight like Streets of Willow, you are fine. The dont fade that much and about the only thing to worry about is the stock pad disintegrating and causing the rotor to be scored, or keeping brakes on when stopped or parking brake up.
Most people think about upgrades probably in this order, wheels/tires, suspension, chips, exhaust. I dont think brakes come into it too much when talking upgrades since they dont hit the track.
But I believe a major flaw exists here. You notice a "chip" was in the list. This chip can take a stock A6 6 speed from 14.4's-14.7's to 13.6's-13.9's and Tips from the stock 15.1 to 13.8's-14.0's. Thats a very big increase in the power of this car whether on street or track.
On the track, the first thing you will notice is that you are heading to the corners at a higher speed than when stock and that straight away speeds are much higher, thus forcing you to break a little harder to get you back down to a safe entering speed for the turn. The stock pads will fold like a wallet under this type of heat/strain. They will disintegrate and ruin rotors. A better pad is needed at the very least. The brakes themselves seem to be OK but you are at their limit with this much power. Upgrading to Stoptech(as an example) and with some track pads improves the braking of the car , and it now balances out the power somewhat.
Now for the street. Lets say your chipped, have anyone ever noticed that after chipping, you seem to have to get into the brakes just a shade more. You take off from a light and traffic is ahead but you seem to get there kinda faster than when you were stock. I had a chance to try someones A6 that had the new GIAC x chip in it. I was shocked at how much more I was working the brakes in normal day to day traffic. The car just was effortlessly faster, hence you really had to pay attention and not crawl up someones rear end. And this is not even trying to speed, this is normal driving. Throttle response was so quick, and slight pressure was all that was needed, it would take awhile to get used to it on the street. Better brakes, which I earlier didnt think was that important, now seem like a good step to take if you chosse to upgrade the power in your car. Not because you are now going to race around town, but when you easily pull away from a light you do so at a faster pace than stock probably a majority of the time, even if you are still under the posted speed limit. Kind of hard to explain by typing, you need to feel this happening to understand maybe.
Which finally brings me to my ramblings end, if you decide to upgrade the power , think seriously about upgrading your stopping power as a safety measure. I think I even read a post today (maybe avdh)about someone mentioning they may need to upgrade the brakes due to some increase in power. Thanks for bearing with me.
what about if you like to go to a quattro event to meet other Audi owners and have fun learning the dynamics of the car and hopefully retain some knowledge to help you in street situations. The stock brakes hold up fairly well and as long as the the track is not tight like Streets of Willow, you are fine. The dont fade that much and about the only thing to worry about is the stock pad disintegrating and causing the rotor to be scored, or keeping brakes on when stopped or parking brake up.
Most people think about upgrades probably in this order, wheels/tires, suspension, chips, exhaust. I dont think brakes come into it too much when talking upgrades since they dont hit the track.
But I believe a major flaw exists here. You notice a "chip" was in the list. This chip can take a stock A6 6 speed from 14.4's-14.7's to 13.6's-13.9's and Tips from the stock 15.1 to 13.8's-14.0's. Thats a very big increase in the power of this car whether on street or track.
On the track, the first thing you will notice is that you are heading to the corners at a higher speed than when stock and that straight away speeds are much higher, thus forcing you to break a little harder to get you back down to a safe entering speed for the turn. The stock pads will fold like a wallet under this type of heat/strain. They will disintegrate and ruin rotors. A better pad is needed at the very least. The brakes themselves seem to be OK but you are at their limit with this much power. Upgrading to Stoptech(as an example) and with some track pads improves the braking of the car , and it now balances out the power somewhat.
Now for the street. Lets say your chipped, have anyone ever noticed that after chipping, you seem to have to get into the brakes just a shade more. You take off from a light and traffic is ahead but you seem to get there kinda faster than when you were stock. I had a chance to try someones A6 that had the new GIAC x chip in it. I was shocked at how much more I was working the brakes in normal day to day traffic. The car just was effortlessly faster, hence you really had to pay attention and not crawl up someones rear end. And this is not even trying to speed, this is normal driving. Throttle response was so quick, and slight pressure was all that was needed, it would take awhile to get used to it on the street. Better brakes, which I earlier didnt think was that important, now seem like a good step to take if you chosse to upgrade the power in your car. Not because you are now going to race around town, but when you easily pull away from a light you do so at a faster pace than stock probably a majority of the time, even if you are still under the posted speed limit. Kind of hard to explain by typing, you need to feel this happening to understand maybe.
Which finally brings me to my ramblings end, if you decide to upgrade the power , think seriously about upgrading your stopping power as a safety measure. I think I even read a post today (maybe avdh)about someone mentioning they may need to upgrade the brakes due to some increase in power. Thanks for bearing with me.
12-05-2001, 03:05 PM
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I use the ground up method of modification that never has shortcomings by design...
Tires/wheels, brakes, suspension, and motor/tranny last. That way you have a safe and solid balanced platform to begin fine tuning on. 
12-05-2001, 03:17 PM
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Agreed - stock is perfect for the street (even with a chip), but cannot handle the track.
Even chipped I do not think stock brakes are a liability on the street. Unless you really push the car around twisty roads the stock rotors will not heat up enough to kill the pads. The rotors will warp, though, even stock.
On the track, the stock pads literally fall apart. I have seen them turn to a grey ash-like dust. It is possible to baby the car in braking zones and not kill the pads/rotors, but who wants to pay for an event and just drive slowly?
In the Spring I will likely upgrade the front brakes to something that can take the heat. I am also looking into upgrading the rear rotor/caliper to that of the S4/4.2. Those vented rear rotors seem to make a difference. My rear pads always look "well done" after an event, but S4 and 4.2 pads don't seem to get as hot.
On the track, the stock pads literally fall apart. I have seen them turn to a grey ash-like dust. It is possible to baby the car in braking zones and not kill the pads/rotors, but who wants to pay for an event and just drive slowly?
In the Spring I will likely upgrade the front brakes to something that can take the heat. I am also looking into upgrading the rear rotor/caliper to that of the S4/4.2. Those vented rear rotors seem to make a difference. My rear pads always look "well done" after an event, but S4 and 4.2 pads don't seem to get as hot.
12-05-2001, 03:30 PM
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Interesting article on BIRA's site about up-grading the HP-2 brakes...that's what we find
on the nuS4s, A6 2.7T/4.2/S6. In brief, the tests reveal that the calipers work very well (heat, pad pressure, etc), but the rotors and the pads are the areas where significant braking improvements can be seen. Also discusses the differences with rear-brake changes (almost nill). As you can imagine, there are some "kits" available (part #s and prices).
You are absolutely right about "up-grading" the brakes for track use/spirited driving, and for increased engine performance.
You are absolutely right about "up-grading" the brakes for track use/spirited driving, and for increased engine performance.
12-05-2001, 04:38 PM
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Agree totally on brakes....
as I fried my rotors in 2 track days. R4 Porterfield pads w/Motul fluid was excellent, but rotors could not dissapate the heat efficiently enough.
Bite was excellent, feel was very good, and fade was minimal, until rotors went away.
Don't like stock pads anymore after learning the difference. Want more bite on the street, too.
I may do the BIRA rotors w/SS lines and a set of Kerr Friction street pads in the spring. To go with the Milltek and chip I hope to do then as well. Upgradeitis.
Mike
Mike
Bite was excellent, feel was very good, and fade was minimal, until rotors went away.
Don't like stock pads anymore after learning the difference. Want more bite on the street, too.
I may do the BIRA rotors w/SS lines and a set of Kerr Friction street pads in the spring. To go with the Milltek and chip I hope to do then as well. Upgradeitis.
Mike
Mike
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12-05-2001, 04:42 PM
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Alcon rotors are what you need, for the track, but they're $1,000/set ...
Colemans will warp, too. Brembo 993 or 996TT rotors might work, with a BIRA kit ... not sure if you can get them to fit under the HP-2s, though.
12-05-2001, 09:18 PM
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yep it was me. Having had the S6 chipped for nearly two weeks, I entirely agree with what you
describe extremely well in your post.
This is something I will have to investigate...
I was thinking in the likes of Sportech brakes in the front and front original brakes to the back. I don't know if that is possible.
This is something I will have to investigate...
I was thinking in the likes of Sportech brakes in the front and front original brakes to the back. I don't know if that is possible.