Monday morning = no start?
11-21-2001, 07:10 AM
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Monday morning = no start?
My father-in-law has a 99 A6 Avant. He drove the car Saturday, no problems. Parks the car in the driveway. Sunday, he starts the car and immediately pulls into the garage, about 15 feet, and turns it off.
Monday morning the car won't start. Cranks and cranks but no start. He calls the dealer (Father & Sons in Springfield, MA) and they tell him "Oh, we call that Monday Morning Syndrome. Happens all the time with those cars. Wait until this evening and it will start right up".
Sure enough, it did. What the hell is up with that? Has anyone had this happen to them? I have not seen this mentioned here or anywhere else, and certainly not as a "happens all the time" problem.
Thanks.
Monday morning the car won't start. Cranks and cranks but no start. He calls the dealer (Father & Sons in Springfield, MA) and they tell him "Oh, we call that Monday Morning Syndrome. Happens all the time with those cars. Wait until this evening and it will start right up".
Sure enough, it did. What the hell is up with that? Has anyone had this happen to them? I have not seen this mentioned here or anywhere else, and certainly not as a "happens all the time" problem.
Thanks.
11-21-2001, 07:30 AM
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it does get mentioned here all the time
I think it's also called "car wash syndrome". Audi runs the car really rich at warm up, so if you start it up, move it 15 feet and shut it off then it will be horribly flooded and won't start for a while.
I think you can start it with the normal flooded car starting procedures also instead of waiting.
Pretty good service person to know that.
You note that cars that are commonly looked down upon on this board (like GM or Ford, not to mention Honda or Toyota) don't have this problem. Part of the reason I wonder if Audi really is any good at engines at all.
I think you can start it with the normal flooded car starting procedures also instead of waiting.
Pretty good service person to know that.
You note that cars that are commonly looked down upon on this board (like GM or Ford, not to mention Honda or Toyota) don't have this problem. Part of the reason I wonder if Audi really is any good at engines at all.
11-21-2001, 07:55 AM
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no, it's a choking issue
To get a cold car to run you need to richen the fuel/air mixture. It used to be that you'd reduce the air supply with a choke plate. Now they throw more gas in instead.
But either way, it isn't a bad thing, just Audi seems to greatly overdo it I guess. A GM motor (to use an example) will start quicker and easier and won't exhibit this problem except in the most severe of circumstances and user misoperation strategic efforts to mess it up.
On an emissions note, when you run the mixture this rich there is no oxygen left in the exhaust for the catalytic converters to work. This not only means you emissions are poor at startup, but delays cat warmup, so emissions are worse for longer. So Audi (and others) run an air injection pump to put extra air into the exhaust manifold (or just downstream) to provide oxygen to get the cats working. This part is the item in your Audi which makes it sound like it is knocking at startup for about 30 seconds. It isn't harmful, far from it, but it does garner a lot of questions from new owners.
But either way, it isn't a bad thing, just Audi seems to greatly overdo it I guess. A GM motor (to use an example) will start quicker and easier and won't exhibit this problem except in the most severe of circumstances and user misoperation strategic efforts to mess it up.
On an emissions note, when you run the mixture this rich there is no oxygen left in the exhaust for the catalytic converters to work. This not only means you emissions are poor at startup, but delays cat warmup, so emissions are worse for longer. So Audi (and others) run an air injection pump to put extra air into the exhaust manifold (or just downstream) to provide oxygen to get the cats working. This part is the item in your Audi which makes it sound like it is knocking at startup for about 30 seconds. It isn't harmful, far from it, but it does garner a lot of questions from new owners.
11-21-2001, 08:17 AM
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My '90 V8 did the same exact thing...
I wonder if Audi has not learned a thing in all that time. With the V8 I even pulled the spark plugs and ran the starter to clear it out. I finally cranked on it for 5 minutes with breaks every 30 seconds or so and it started real rough and then ran fine. I think that is all they do when you take it to the dealer. The V finally needed a starter for $800 plus install. Wonder why...
The V8 was a cool car all and all.
The V8 was a cool car all and all.
11-21-2001, 08:23 AM
#7
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It is also to protect the cat
Cats do not like being flooded with unburnt fuel and as a result they shut down for a period. The following is taken from a recent response in the "Ask the Expert" section of the Motoring Column of the Daily Telegraph.
My wife has an S-reg Ford Escort 1.6i Zetec. I drove it out of the garage and, about an hour later, drove it back in (total distance about 20ft). When we attempted to start the car the next day it would not fire, except by full throttle and cranking the engine for 20-30 seconds. It then started and ran without problems. Why?
M.K., via email
Your engine is not supposed to start in these circumstances in order to protect the catalyst from unburned petrol. If you start a catalysed car you must run it through the first couple of stages of its cold running cycle before you switch off, otherwise you flood the engine with unburned petrol, which is what you did.
My wife has an S-reg Ford Escort 1.6i Zetec. I drove it out of the garage and, about an hour later, drove it back in (total distance about 20ft). When we attempted to start the car the next day it would not fire, except by full throttle and cranking the engine for 20-30 seconds. It then started and ran without problems. Why?
M.K., via email
Your engine is not supposed to start in these circumstances in order to protect the catalyst from unburned petrol. If you start a catalysed car you must run it through the first couple of stages of its cold running cycle before you switch off, otherwise you flood the engine with unburned petrol, which is what you did.
