A6 / S6 (C5 Platform) Discussion Discussion forum for the C5 Audi A6 and S6 produced from 1998-2004

Cam's out of alignment slightly? Calling Tester123 & jseklund + others

Old 01-23-2014, 06:23 PM
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I suggest you take excellent close-up pictures BEFORE you remove them. This way you'll know where everything goes. Also, you can mark them in an order that will help to put them back.

As far as the bearing caps, I won't be able to help because I have 4.2 and things are different.

It can be overwhelming; take a step back, read/re-read the posts, understand what's being said and take any notes if needed. Consult the manual as well to address specific topic/issue. It is not complicated but it can be when you jump around too much. Take one portion at a time and do it right.

As far as the silicone sealer, as I mentioned before, on tensioner gasket, spread thin light coat with your finger evenly. Wipe away around the oil inlet opening of the gasket.

No sealer around CAM Seals. Clean it if there is any. I am not sure if they'll leak but, I followed the manual and did NOT use any oil when sliding in the CAM seals. I cleaned camshafts(where seals go) + seals with brake cleaner and installed them bone dry. You can use a big enough socket etc. to drive the seals in STRAIGHT. Don't bend them or seat them lopsided.

Regarding tensioner pads/shoes, you have use your judgement. They will have a small (maybe a 1 or 2mm) grove from chain running on it. That's not an issue. If the groove is deep (like that write-up you linked), you should replace them. Also, if they have cracks, replace them.
Old 01-23-2014, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by tester123
I suggest you take excellent close-up pictures BEFORE you remove them. This way you'll know where everything goes. Also, you can mark them in an order that will help to put them back.

As far as the bearing caps, I won't be able to help because I have 4.2 and things are different.

It can be overwhelming; take a step back, read/re-read the posts, understand what's being said and take any notes if needed. Consult the manual as well to address specific topic/issue. It is not complicated but it can be when you jump around too much. Take one portion at a time and do it right.

As far as the silicone sealer, as I mentioned before, on tensioner gasket, spread thin light coat with your finger evenly. Wipe away around the oil inlet opening of the gasket.

No sealer around CAM Seals. Clean it if there is any. I am not sure if they'll leak but, I followed the manual and did NOT use any oil when sliding in the CAM seals. I cleaned camshafts(where seals go) + seals with brake cleaner and installed them bone dry. You can use a big enough socket etc. to drive the seals in STRAIGHT. Don't bend them or seat them lopsided.

Regarding tensioner pads/shoes, you have use your judgement. They will have a small (maybe a 1 or 2mm) grove from chain running on it. That's not an issue. If the groove is deep (like that write-up you linked), you should replace them. Also, if they have cracks, replace them.
So I KNOW the cam caps went back in the same order I took them out, I was super careful and placed them on a clean surface to mimic what they looked like when bolted down. It's just when I was pulling them out starting at the front of the engine (right behind the sprocket for tbelt) if we call that single long "cap" 1, then the next set back were marked 7, then the next set (would be middle of the cam shaft) it was marked 3, then 4, and then 2. I didn't notice the numbers till I was pulling the last set off. I followed Blau parts directions of doing 1-3-5-7 with 1 being the single long front metal "cap" and moving back in order from there. Then the rest, trying to loosen evenly.

Like I said, the car was running ok before, but it was odd the cam cap numbers didn't seem to be in any kind of order.

Also, assembly oil on the cam caps, is it ok to get it in the oil channels in the crescent running over the cam shaft. It acts as oil, right?
Old 01-23-2014, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by acarney
..Also, assembly oil on the cam caps, is it ok to get it in the oil channels in the crescent running over the cam shaft. It acts as oil, right?..
Oil caps were a PIA for only reason that I wanted the surfaces to be completely oil-free. So, you can (like I did), shoot some brake cleaner (with a cloth catching oil) into those oil outlet holes and dab away until no oil comes out finally. Then, wipe down the areas with brake cleaner + paper towel and assemble the oil caps.

Again, people will differ on how to do something. I look at what the purpose of a particular part is and try to achieve the best solution to the problem. Oil caps are supposed to STOP oil from leaking. So, the best you can do is to make sure the outer surfaces where it mates and seals are completely free of oil.

Would it make a difference if there is some oil? Maybe or maybe not. I don't know since I didn't do it that way... You see what I am saying? Technically speaking, it shouldn't matter. But, I didn't want to take a chance and that's why I keep emphasizing to keep surfaces clean. Your call.

By the way, when I installed, I held the cap in place and put the bearing cap over it, tightened the bolts in an alternating manner slowly constantly putting pressure to keep the cap towards the head. Does that makes sense?

In other words, I didn't drive or hammer the end cap/oil seals in after the bearing cap was on. I installed them at the same time bearing caps were going in.

For the cam seals on the other hand, the bearing caps were completely installed and I used a socket + a big enough spacer (pvc pipe cut to req. length) and used (longer) bolts of same thread (from home depot) as CAM bolts themselves to drive the seal in.

There are many ways to do the same.

Last edited by tester123; 01-23-2014 at 07:49 PM.
Old 01-23-2014, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by tester123
Oil caps were a PIA for only reason that I wanted the surfaces to be completely oil-free. So, you can (like I did), shoot some brake cleaner (with a cloth catching oil) into those oil outlet holes and dab away until no oil comes out finally. Then, wipe down the areas with brake cleaner + paper towel and assemble the oil caps.

Again, people will differ on how to do something. I look at what the purpose of a particular part is and try to achieve the best solution to the problem. Oil caps are supposed to STOP oil from leaking. So, the best you can do is to make sure the outer surfaces where it mates and seals are completely free of oil.

Would it make a difference if there is some oil? Maybe or maybe not. I don't know since I didn't do it that way... You see what I am saying? Technically speaking, it shouldn't matter. But, I didn't want to take a chance and that's why I keep emphasizing to keep surfaces clean. Your call.

By the way, when I installed, I held the cap in place and put the bearing cap over it, tightened the bolts in an alternating manner slowly constantly putting pressure to keep the cap towards the head. Does that makes sense?

In other words, I didn't drive or hammer the end cap/oil seals in after the bearing cap was on. I installed them at the same time bearing caps were going in.

For the cam seals on the other hand, the bearing caps were completely installed and I used a socket + a big enough spacer (pvc pipe cut to req. length) and used (longer) bolts of same thread (from home depot) as CAM bolts themselves to drive the seal in.

There are many ways to do the same.
Cool, I think I'm doing things right then. I just didn't want the camshaft to be scratched up because I cleaned up each cam cap as I removed them. The Blau instructions said to apply some assembly oil to them before putting them on and only torque down to 7 ft lbs. (pretty sure it was 7, don't have the directions right in front of me)

I just didn't want to clog those oil channels up after I spent so much time cleaning each of them (what, there's like 14 of them total or something, lol). The assembly oil mentioned that it dissolves in operating oil so I figure by the time the engine gets up to temp the first time I start it all that assembly oil will be gone.

The cam shaft end seals actually went on super easy. Didn't have to use a big socket or hammer of anything. They just slid straight on without kinking at an angle.
Old 01-23-2014, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by acarney
...The cam shaft end seals actually went on super easy. Didn't have to use a big socket or hammer of anything. They just slid straight on without kinking at an angle...
That's good. Like I said, I didn't use any assembly oil etc. when putting the cam seals OR end caps. As long as you don't have an oil leak when engine is running, you are fine.
Old 01-24-2014, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by tester123
I followed the manual and did NOT use any oil when sliding in the CAM seals. I cleaned camshafts(where seals go) + seals with brake cleaner and installed them bone dry.
That is ONLY If you use the factory PTFE "paper" seals NOT replacement rubber seals commonly sold. If you use a rubber seal you must lubricate the sealing edge to the camshaft, or it will prematurely wear it out.
Old 01-24-2014, 06:00 PM
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Cool! Sounds like I lubricated the seal correctly...

About to put the valve cover gasket on and the Blau directions do say to use some silicone in certain places, do you guys apply a thin layer all over the gasket on both sides (bottom and top) or should I just follow the Blau directions and apply it to the corners and one or two other places it mentions and I guess just apply it to the TOP of the gasket that mates with the valve cover.

Mean while... I had to break the crap out of that vent hose to remove the damn thing because it was SOOO firm from age and wouldn't flex at all to work it out from under stuff. AND holy crap it was COMPLETELY blocked with FIRM caked oil crap stuff. It was the part that connects under the intake manifold so I'm not sure if that would have caused pressure buildup and caused leaks around the seals on the valve cover or anything but WOW it was clogged, if anything I'm glad I'm doing this whole job JUST to replace that breather hose. I've got to change my oil more often and use some better quality stuff so I can make this one last as long as possible.

Photos, the one photo shows the grooves caused by the cam chains, they're FOR SURE there but they do look to be less then 1 or 2 mm so I'm just calling it good and NOT replacing those shoes... hopefully you guys will come to the same decision when viewing this photo and not yell at me to not be lazy and go back and swap them out...

Second photo is of my "seeping/leaking" aux water pump that the dealer SWORE would need replaced. Then again, the dealer also told me it was at the bottom of the engine and would need to be on a lift etc. $700 quote. I'm looking as hard as I can and can't seem to figure where the leak is... granted I pulled it anyway and will replace with a new one since I already have the new part with me... but can you guys tell me if I'm blind? :P Also in this pic is the green circle on the part of the vent hose that was fully blocked off, I cleaned the mount part as much as possible since there was stuff caked inside there too. Anyone know what the horrible yellow/gray looking crap was in the vent hose? Honestly I feel like I'm doing a heart bypass here and that stuff is cholesterol that blocked up an artery :P
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Last edited by acarney; 01-24-2014 at 06:02 PM.
Old 01-24-2014, 08:53 PM
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***** that vent hose was HARD to get in place! Had to remove the hose that connects to the combi valves and secondary air pump? Had to do that really careful so I didn't break that one too! I'm done spending money getting parts...

Anyway, got the aux water pump replaced and the new intake manifold gaskets in and the vent hose snapped on both outlets on the rear of the engine. Buttoned up the intake manifold and will now move onto the drivers side valve cover. Then just have to place the gasket on the passenger side (cams are back in, we're SURE that it isn't a big deal that the little alignment notches are off by like 20 degrees? The chain link is perfect, 16 rolls from notch to notch, but the notches are NOT on the arrows on that last set of cam caps) and move back to getting the belt on and the front end built back up. I finally feel like I'm making good progress!

Again, when putting the valve cover gasket on, should I put a thin layer of high temp silicone on BOTH sides and ALL around it? Or just follow the blauparts directions and put it on the top and just around the specific areas it points out?
Old 01-25-2014, 06:08 AM
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I don't put any silicone ON the gasket. I put silicone on the mating surfaces in any corners, valleys, etc. that the gasket seats in. Don't over do it either - just enough so that it will harden and seal. The hardest part to get it into is the valley by the cam adjuster. I often put some on my pinky and put it in like that - but maybe you can squeeze it in there from the tube.

I don't think your aux. pump was leaking. It looked pretty dry. Often times your T-stat housing will leak and come down the front and it looks similar to the aux. pump leaks.

The cams are good. If you have the links perfect, when you put the bar on everything they will be very close and if they are not, it is because the cam adjusters haven't pumped up fully and there isn't enough pressure on the chain. If you have the cam adjuster tool in, that too will obviously cause the same issue. Leave the valve covers off if you like until after you get the bar on and everything ready to put back together, and you will see they come closer, and if they don't, I still wouldn't worry about it.
Old 01-25-2014, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by acarney
Again, when putting the valve cover gasket on, should I put a thin layer of high temp silicone on BOTH sides and ALL around it? Or just follow the blauparts directions and put it on the top and just around the specific areas it points out?
I'd say on valve cover, you should be ok if you do where they suggested. It's you call. If you are using the silicone sealer they sent you, it might be the "permatex" type sealer that stays flexible even after drying. Personally, I don't think you'll do any damage by adding a thin layer. It is not required, I also was so "extra-careful" and didn't use it on VC gasket. But, I find that there was a tiny leak after couple days and I tightened the bolts again. If I were to do it over, Yeah, I'd use it. Again, your call.

Regarding that caking, it looks like that is the hose to intake from the breather tube. It's oil vapor depositing over time. That should be clean for engine to "breathe" properly. Otherwise, the blow-by gas pressure will start affecting seals in all different places you don't want to go into (or maybe you do, since you are about to graduate this T-belt program )

Finally, not to undermine your confidence on the "link count" etc., but the ONLY and proper way to ensure timing is right is by putting the t-belt ON and checking @TDC. Remember the posts and links I've sent (few posts below)? Go through that to make sure they are aligning AFTER turning the engine few times. Don't start it without confirming this. Also, if I were you, I wouldn't put the Valve Covers back on until I made sure of this.

From the picture of the tensioner pad showing, it looks like you are ok with that. It's showing normal wear and that's how mine were. Did you check the bottom ones?

Last edited by tester123; 01-25-2014 at 07:03 AM.
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